Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Old 10-10-13, 07:59 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

I was on Youtube a moment ago and saw a new 'GLBT History Month Icon" video, and was shocked to see Pat, now known as Patrick Califia part of the list. I had no idea October was considered GLBT history month and am ashamed such a person is considered an 'icon' when you see her/his extreme views on sex, which includes pedophilia.

http://lgbthistorymonth.com/patrick-...?tab=biography

Of course the above bio and video of her does not even mention her more extreme takes on sex, at least involving kids, which I think is wrong headed and dangerous. So you wouldn't have any idea what she's really into by just reading that lovey dovy bio of her life.

Her true beliefs will be documented below.

And It's a huge coincidence she was todays 'icon', since yesterday at Half Price Books, I saw her book Public Sex: The Culture Of Radical Sex and she talks quite a bit about adult-child sex in long winded essays, including "The Aftermath of the Great Kiddy-Porn Panic of '77", which was published in The Advocate in 1980. I was really disturbed and couldn't believe what I was reading. This person was clearly warped in the head with her views on this topic among others. I hadn't even heard of this person until yesterday, and the next day I see she's considered an 'icon'!

The full essay can be found here(it's just text, so don't worry about nsfw images and all), and I haven't checked out the rest of the website other than the main page, and it's fucked up city since it appears to endorses this stuff under the guise of 'scholarly' discussion/research on this topic.

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library...rmath_text.htm


Excerpts from her essay

Of course, there are those who claim that we must disassociate ourselves from pedophiles as a matter of principle. They agree with the stars of the great kiddy-porn panic that it is wrong for adults and young people to have sex with each other. It is sometimes hard to tell the rightwing position on this issue from the position that many prominent lesbian-feminists have promulgated.


Our society is made up of class systems and runs on arbitrarily assigned privilege. Loving relationships provide ways to cross barriers, forge alliances, and redistribute power. Granted, they cannot substitute for full-scale social change. But we cannot forgo all intimacy until these inequities are finally abolished. There is nothing wrong with a more privileged adult offering a young person money, privacy, freedom of movement, new ideas, and sexual pleasure.

LFL has no right to speak for children's liberation. That is the right of young people. It is odd that LFL's definition of liberation does not include a young person's right to control her or his own body. This implies that sex isn't so important for young people as for adults. Try telling that to a fourteen-year-old who's in love with her gym teacher.

Boy-lovers and lesbians who have young lovers are the only people offering a hand to help young women and men cross the difficult terrain between straight society and the gay community. They are not child molesters. The child abusers are teachers, therapists, cops, and parents who force their stale morality onto the young people in their custody. Instead of condemning pedophiles for their involvement with lesbian and gay youth, we should be supporting them. They need us badly. Forty years in prison is a long, long time. Only a very sad society with some very sick attitudes toward sex could think such a sentence is just. Forty years for what? For experiencing sexual pleasure? When the capacity to have orgasms is present at six months of age and possibly even earlier? God help us, it's a wonder any of us manage to feel love or make love with training like that.



This is a 1996 interview with her and discusses her 'changing' view on adult-child sex'.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Profil...al.-a018710719

An excerpt from the article.

She credits her adult sexual mentors with giving her an opportunity to imagine, and create, a better life. "I did not wait until I was eighteen to be sexually active," she says. "What I got was a few minutes of sanctuary away from my family, a vision of another reality, and it saved my life and my sanity."

In a 1980 essay, Califia argued that we should not confuse "the issue of violence against children with the issue of children and sexuality." Nonetheless, age of consent is one area where Califia's politics have changed during the past sixteen years, although she still opposes age-of-consent laws and "probably always will."

Califia is less inclined now to believe that our society is ready to make sexual freedom safe for minors.

"We're not even able to give kids the kind of sex education they need to protect themselves from AIDS," she says. "In that kind of world, it's really hard to emphasize increasing sexual freedom for youth. I still say that children have their own sexuality. In a just society, where children were given the kind of sex education that they ought to be entitled to, and support from their adult caretakers, kids would express their sexuality more instead of less. That sexuality might sometimes include exploration with older people."
And if that isn't enough, she's gone from being a exteme butch S&M radical lesbian to a burly female to male(still into S&M) i assume) transsexual. Thus now she's giving the entire spectrum of the glbt acronym a bad image.

And he is also now a father, and this little bit seems to get a glimpse into what makes him tick.

I had always believed there wasn't room for a child in my life. But when my mother passed away, I realized I had also been afraid of her disapproval. A staunch right-wing Mormon, my mother never accepted my queerness, and she would have moved heaven and earth to prevent me from raising a kid. It seemed to me that it was part of Matt's spiritual path to be a parent. Witnessing my mother's death had opened my heart. I needed to be part of creating a new life.
Basically he's going to extremes to rebel against everything. So since his mom wouldn't accept him having kids, well that's the next step on the rebellious agenda. That's what I get out of reading some of his long winded rants er, essays.

Also, while still a woman in the 1980's,she wrote a S&M story compilation which involved one story having a mom sexually abuse her daughter, and it's supposed to be a pretty brutal book from the reviews.

Here is an article from 1998 that doesn't explicitly deal with Pat, but she's briefly mentioned. But this is a glimpse into the warped minds that attempt to legitimize pedophilia in the educational field even if claiming they don't.

http://hiddenmysteries.org/news/amer...a/090700a.html

Her stated goal is to construct a "radical theory of sex" that "must identify, describe, explain, and denounce erotic injustice and sexual oppression" that so victimizes "the community of men who love underaged youth."

"Contemporary sexual politics," she writes, "should be reconceptualized in terms of the emergent ongoing development of this system, its social relations, the ideologies which interpret it, and its characteristic modes of conflict."

Prof. Hanson, however, disputes any suggestion that the course is an effort in propaganda. The course attempts to "interrogate received opinions, not reassert them. . . The course does not ‘adopt’ arguments," she says. He also asserts, "Every writer in the course is opposed to sexual exploitation in all its forms." Rubin declines to define "sexual exploitation." She professes that "cross-generational encounters" can involve "affection, love, free choice, kindness, or transcendence," and does not address the criticism of pedophilia that it is by definition sexual exploitation.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/v3rhQc666Sg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Last edited by Julie Walker; 10-11-13 at 12:18 AM.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 10:28 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,921
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Okay, this thread just isn't going to work here. A supporter of a movement making an honest assessment of things and actively denouncing the extremist fringe in that movement?

Where is the partisan bile, the hardened, inflexible posturing, the sanctimonious left/right stances, the contemptuous derision of the opposing side?

None of us here know how to respond to this thread.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 11:05 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,200
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

You say "she" and the bio keeps saying "he."

Fuck, the whole transgendered thing is just too much to try to keep up with.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 11:10 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

I don't understand any of this thread.
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 11:17 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
EddieMoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paradise, USA
Posts: 9,620
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

So this thing likes to rape kids?
EddieMoney is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 03:05 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,248
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

The name "Pat Califia" sounds really familiar.

Since this is a person who writes about sexuality, I'm guessing it's either from Playboy, Penthouse, or some book of erotica where I remember seeing the name.

(He look! No gender-specific pronouns, and it didn't even sound awkward!)
Josh-da-man is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 03:14 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 14,758
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
The name "Pat Califia" sounds really familiar.

Since this is a person who writes about sexuality, I'm guessing it's either from Playboy, Penthouse, or some book of erotica where I remember seeing the name.

(He look! No gender-specific pronouns, and it didn't even sound awkward!)
until ya screwed up "hey"
Bronkster is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 03:40 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Rex Power Colt-Robot Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,033
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
The name "Pat Califia" sounds really familiar.

Since this is a person who writes about sexuality, I'm guessing it's either from Playboy, Penthouse, or some book of erotica where I remember seeing the name.

(He look! No gender-specific pronouns, and it didn't even sound awkward!)
Rex Power Colt-Robot Man is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 04:20 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,248
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Bronkster View Post
until ya screwed up "hey"
I can't type for shit anymore. I think it's because I alternate between full-size keyboards and laptops too much that my muscle memory is shit.
Josh-da-man is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 06:01 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Okay, this thread just isn't going to work here. A supporter of a movement making an honest assessment of things and actively denouncing the extremist fringe in that movement?

Where is the partisan bile, the hardened, inflexible posturing, the sanctimonious left/right stances, the contemptuous derision of the opposing side?

None of us here know how to respond to this thread.

, sorry.

Well people could try to reply, and it doesn't matter what political side you're on. This is one issue I'd hope both sides could agree is awful, but their will be some fringe radicals trying to spin it the other way. So post away and discuss.


Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
You say "she" and the bio keeps saying "he."

Fuck, the whole transgendered thing is just too much to try to keep up with.
The reason I said 'she' is simply because it wasn't until last night I found out about the entire female to male transition which didn't begin until 1999. So reading her essays under her female name which she published under and saying what a 'proud leatherdyke' she was. It just stuck in my head, and then I was confused to see some people calling 'her', 'he' and then discovered the TG thing. Of course misgendering TG people can be offensive. Eventually the 'correct' pronoun may work it's way into my vocabulary,it's just too soon to change that.

Though I would think saying 'she' when discussing her earlier life as a lesbian, it fits properly than saying 'he'. When discussing his present life, which the male pronouns now work. But reading that bio that has an overview of her life, it's confusing saying 'he' at every point.

For example, this article is about a punk rock singers transition from male to female. And it begins by saying 'he' at the start of the article, then 'she' as she transitions. Of course various comments by trans people were posted decrying the 'misgendering' in the article, while the singer now named Laura replies in the comments section that she was fine with the way the article was written and approved it to best illustrate her journey.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...gabel-20120531

Last edited by Julie Walker; 10-23-13 at 12:08 AM.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 06:23 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,200
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Fuck, I can't keep up with all that shit just to keep from offending someone.

People should quit being offended and take comments in the spirit it was intended. My intention was apathy, unfortunately.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 06:27 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 56,645
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

So this person simply thinks ALL forms of sexual activity should be legal and uncensored. it seems....
Giantrobo is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 06:35 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Working for Gizmonic Institute
Posts: 10,430
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Julie Walker View Post
I could care less.
I think that the entire forum can agree that the phrase is, "I could not care less." and that you are a bad, bad person for using it incorrectly.
crazyronin is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 06:49 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,693
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

I saw a panel discussion that included Patrick Califia in 2001. He (just recently he) was extremely smart and articulate, and didn't mention pedophilia. I know that Pat Califia is an icon for leather dykes. But I haven't read anything by her myself.

I also know that the gay community had a lot of discussions about man-boy love in the 1980s, because a great number of them had been brought into the community themselves by older men, and they were still grateful for it. They asserted that there was a difference between an adult taking advantage of a younger person and an adult helping a younger person.

The original post has a similar flavor of those outraged newspaper columns that always get published after someone is nominated to the Supreme Court. The editorialist looks over a vast body of writing spanning decades, and tries to get the readers angry about a single essay written 30 years ago.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 10-11-13 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Deleted comment that Julie's post was cross-posted. Boardreader scraped it from DVD Talk.
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 08:24 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 14,758
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Fuck, I can't keep up with all that shit just to keep from offending someone.
It's easy. Just remember "she" until the addadictomy, then "he".
Bronkster is offline  
Old 10-11-13, 09:06 PM
  #16  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post

People should quit being offended and take comments in the spirit it was intended. My intention was apathy, unfortunately.
Oh yeah? Well I think...ah, whatever.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 10-12-13, 01:19 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by crazyronin View Post
I think that the entire forum can agree that the phrase is, "I could not care less." and that you are a bad, bad person for using it incorrectly.


Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
So this person simply thinks ALL forms of sexual activity should be legal and uncensored. it seems....
From what I can gather, yes. It's bad to have 'morals' and if everything was allowed, then it would become 'normal'. That's the utopia she mentions in one of her essays/interviews.


Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I saw a panel discussion that included Patrick Califia in 2001. He (just recently he) was extremely smart and articulate, and didn't mention pedophilia. I know that Pat Califia is an icon for leather dykes. But I haven't read anything by her myself.
Then maybe you should. And while I doubt he talks about it a lot today. He/they trying to endorse pedophilia try to play 'nice' with words and say 'boy lovers' instead of 'child rapist'.

And in the introduction to her Public Sex book. She mentions submitting articles to Paidika, a magazine in the Netherlands that is aimed at pedophiles and justifying their behavior. And she also decries various lesbian publications refusing to publish short stories of hers involving under age girls with adults. And this was in the 1990's as she proudly endorses all this material and how 'hypocritical' the glbt community is for turning their backs on this issue.

So while not 'recent', it's still close enough, and I'm sure he hasn't changed his stance, even if it's down played and glossed over today.


I also know that the gay community had a lot of discussions about man-boy love in the 1980s, because a great number of them had been brought into the community themselves by older men, and they were still grateful for it. They asserted that there was a difference between an adult taking advantage of a younger person and an adult helping a younger person.
Creepy and delusional. That's how pedo's justify their behavior. They try to claim their is 'good' and 'bad' child sexual abuse, and that they are 'not hurting anyone', when it's all one in the same.

Also the above paragraph just showcases even more, the 'recruiting' fear the anti-gay side has may be real, and yet most gay rights organizations decry as false. Yet it appears their is some truth to it, if some gay men proudly claim an adult man 'seduced'(coerced, took advantage of) them as a kid and they see nothing wrong with it.


The original post has a similar flavor of those outraged newspaper columns that always get published after someone is nominated to the Supreme Court. The editorialist looks over a vast body of writing spanning decades, and tries to get the readers angry about a single essay written 30 years ago.
Well that's only one essay that I could find in whole online. You'll have to buy her books that collect her work to read more. However, discovering how she has written articles for pedophile magazines and so forth. And in a 1996 interview excerpted in the original post, mentions an 'adult mentor' 'helping' her sexually, and thus she's had first hand experience as a kid with an adult and is fine with it. Their is more reason to be concerned about her beliefs than one 30 year old article.

And considering the length of just one essay endorsing pedophilia excerpted in the original post. It's something she obviously feels strongly about, and thus should be mentioned instead of omitted if trying to paint her as some iconic figure of the community. Since once people find out this information, it just makes gay rights/tolerance organizations look bad by purposely sanitizing the unpopular and questionable beliefs/lives of some glbt figures. Thus it'll make it even tougher for people to even trust the "Oh no, that's all made up bullshit by the right wing haters. We're just like everyone else." line, which I dealt with in college and high school, then found out the truth about some(not all) people in the community.

For example, this person, Beth Kelly who is mentioned in Pats essay, turns out to has been a professor at a college in Chicago, and also on the cities 'diversity' board in regards to glbt issues. And yet, guess what's she's into and has experienced?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Kelly

Beth Kelly is an American political theorist, feminist, and pedophile activist.

Kelly recounted a sexual relationship she experienced, beginning when she was 8 years old, with a great aunt who was more than 50 years older, and described her personal involvement in similar relationships both "as a girl and as a woman.
We're all flawed beings, that's for sure. But trying to paint a rosy picture of an extremely radical person is not the way to go about documenting glbt history.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 10-12-13, 03:00 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,437
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Shouldn't we be accepting of all kinds of people?
Artman is offline  
Old 10-12-13, 04:26 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Should we?
dave-o is offline  
Old 10-12-13, 06:20 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
arminius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here I Is!
Posts: 6,968
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Some people should be shot.
arminius is offline  
Old 10-19-13, 05:14 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I also know that the gay community had a lot of discussions about man-boy love in the 1980s, because a great number of them had been brought into the community themselves by older men, and they were still grateful for it. They asserted that there was a difference between an adult taking advantage of a younger person and an adult helping a younger person.

I would welcome a reply from Nick about his feelings on the above comments he made, and which I countered in my last response. Or if anyone else cares to chime in on this topic, feel free.

What do you make of the above comment?
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 10-19-13, 09:58 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,693
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

I reported an attitude that I've seen. After your second post, I remembered that you have strong feelings on the matter. I have no dog in the fight, you are not going to modify your position, and the discussion would not be either informative or entertaining for the other members.

Meanwhile, I saw a cute transgender while I was playing pool last week, and complimented her on her appearance. Isn't it great that society has changed so much in the last 30-40 years that she could play pool in a bar that wasn't a gay bar, and I could compliment her without feeling my masculinity was threatened? I'm glad that someone else did the heavy lifting to make that change possible. I'm going to enjoy it without chipping at the clay feet of the people who did the lifting.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 10-20-13 at 11:01 AM.
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 10-21-13, 04:50 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I reported an attitude that I've seen. After your second post, I remembered that you have strong feelings on the matter. I have no dog in the fight, you are not going to modify your position, and the discussion would not be either informative or entertaining for the other members.
I shouldn't have to modify my position on a topic such as this. But if anyone wants to justify the behavior, so be it. At least we'd know where they stand on the issue, as scary as it is.(yes I know I'm not being 'objective', but so be it)

Also while reporting on what you've heard is okay. By not even stating your feelings on the matter and being 'objective'. It could easily be read by other people as; "Oh, that makes sense. I guess their is nothing wrong with it." ,which is extremely dangerous in this case.

For example, what do you think of my earlier response saying the 'man-boy love' issue based on what you've heard point to the fears of gays 'recruiting' children may have some truth to it? That's something worth discussing and is an honest question.


Meanwhile, I saw a cute transgender while I was playing pool last week, and complimented her on her appearance. Isn't it great that society has changed so much in the last 30-40 years that she could play pool in a bar that wasn't a gay bar, and I could compliment her without feeling my masculinity was threatened? I'm glad that someone else did the heavy lifting to make that change possible. I'm going to enjoy it without chipping at the clay feet of the people who did the lifting.
That's nice of you, and yes that is great. However, trans people are still largely targeted when in public. It's all in who you run into of course. But bigots that love to shout hateful remarks at them and so forth are out there still. I've witnessed it first hand, while thankfully I have had less run with openly bigoted people while in public. But it's always a reminder haters still exist out their whenever it happens, despite living in a 'bubble' of seemingly 'tolerant' people.

As for those gay rights pioneers doing all the hard work for us, so we don't have to deal with most of the shit that went down then. That's great. However,since some have some disturbing skeletons in their closets(Harry Hay is another one). It's best not to sugar coat their image and make them appear 'greater' than they are. It only further fuels those against gay people to rally against glbt people once they learn the truth about some of the figures. So the community should own up to those figures huge flaws and not condone them, yet not brush it under the rug either when educating people on their life.


So again, what does everyone make of the above paragraph? Am I onto something, or should the huge flaws in some figures lives be ignored to present a more 'pleasing' image of them?

Considering how active most gay rights/glbt threads are on here. I'm surprised at the lack of responses. In fact, some board members whom usually chime in on such threads are absent, which is shocking, but kind of refreshing. Now for the rest of the board. Don't be shy, chime in.

And despite my strong feelings on the matter. A civil discussion would be nice to have. So I won't bite, promise!
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 10-21-13, 06:14 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,921
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Julie Walker View Post
As for those gay rights pioneers doing all the hard work for us, so we don't have to deal with most of the shit that went down then. That's great. However,since some have some disturbing skeletons in their closets(Harry Hay is another one). It's best not to sugar coat their image and make them appear 'greater' than they are. It only further fuels those against gay people to rally against glbt people once they learn the truth about some of the figures. So the community should own up to those figures huge flaws and not condone them, yet not brush it under the rug either when educating people on their life.


So again, what does everyone make of the above paragraph? Am I onto something, or should the huge flaws in some figures lives be ignored to present a more 'pleasing' image of them?
Personally, I think your approach is the morally correct one. Of course, the downside is that it gives ammunition to your ideological foes and in the short run may be risky---but, I think honesty and actually challenging negative elements of your movement (and every movement and ideology has negative elements) will, in the long run, garner more respect and be more productive. And even if it doesn't, I think "the ends justify the means" approach is usually pretty morally dubious.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 10-21-13, 09:28 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,437
Re: Oct 10th, GLBT 'icon' Pat(rick) Califia: pro-pedophilia radical.

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Meanwhile, I saw a cute transgender while I was playing pool last week, and complimented her on her appearance.
Honest question - how did you know they were trans? Seems like that'd be on par (or worse) with assuming a woman is pregnant...even if your 90% sure, it's better to just steer clear.

I've worked with a trans employee for 5-6yrs now. I've seen the full transformation, had to change names, etc....which has been an eye opener for sure, and made me really evaluate my own attitude and thoughts about it. I don't snicker or joke about it anymore like I did in my youth, I see her as a person like everyone else.

Julie, I think the unfortunate reality is that there is an element of this subject matter in that community. (same as straights, don't jump on me yet) It most likely comes from childhood abuse, or the same reasons straight molesters have...whatever they are. The hesitation to really state anything definitive in a community that (as I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong) bases itself on having no conformity or being anti-this or that....well, that may be where the problem is when it comes to being able to draw a line in the sand on some things.
Artman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.