View Poll Results: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? (from today / Tue. Oct. 7, 2013)
Less than 3 days




0
0%
17 more days or more, but less than 20 days




0
0%
20 more days or more, but less than 25 days




0
0%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll
How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
#226
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Can you provide a news source that proves that the Republicans were completely responsible for the shutdown of National Parks and monuments? So who told the park rangers to make things as difficult as possible?
Rather than offering solid facts to dispute the points in the article, you attack the author of the article.
Sparks flew at the contentious hearing in which Republicans blamed the National Park Service for unnecessarily using additional personnel to close down notable landmarks, including the World War II Memorial.
“Why, when I asked the police standing duty there personally, did they tell me that every policeman was on duty?” Issa said in a question posted to Park Service Director Jonathan Jarvis. “I repeat, an open-air monument was guarded by the same number of people to prevent Americans from getting in as would allow them to safely go in and out on a daily basis.”
Issa subpoenaed Jarvis during the hearing for a second time (he was already subpoenaed to appear before the Committee) in order to obtain documents, including e-mails and phone calls, related to the shutdown.
Democrats on the committees, including Oversight Committee ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), expressed exasperation that their Republican colleagues decided to hold the hearing in the first place. “Their approach puts ideology of one political party ahead of the interest of our entire nation. Even worse, if this issue is not resolved in the next few hours, we will begin defaulting on our debts, something our nation has never done before.”
“Do you know what really honors our nation’s heroes for their service and for their sacrifice?” Cummings asked. “Providing them with the benefits they earned after suffering injuries in combat. Paying them the pensions they need to cover their rent, their utility bills, their food and guaranteeing the assistance they rely on to stay off the streets and, in some cases, to simply stay alive.”
As details of the Senate-brokered deal to end the fiscal stalemate trickled out on Wednesday, the partisan divisions within the committees were on full display.
At one point, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.), posed an unusual question to the Park Service chief: “Director Jarvis, I’m just curious, the philosophy that you have as director of the Park Service. Do you believe our rights come from our creator or from our government and Constitution?”
Furious Democrats on the committees pushed back.
“I came to Congress to solve problems. I came to Congress to try to work across the aisle and raise the political discourse in this country and try to set a better tone,” said a frustrated Rep. Jared Huffman (D-Calif.). ”And, instead, I am taking part in a hearing that makes the McCarthy era look like the Enlightenment.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...parks-inquiry/
It's a shame that we have to even have an inquiry. It should have never happened, but human nature suggests that the side which becomes defensive and very angry is usually the guilty party.
Rather than offering solid facts to dispute the points in the article, you attack the author of the article.
Sparks flew at the contentious hearing in which Republicans blamed the National Park Service for unnecessarily using additional personnel to close down notable landmarks, including the World War II Memorial.
“Why, when I asked the police standing duty there personally, did they tell me that every policeman was on duty?” Issa said in a question posted to Park Service Director Jonathan Jarvis. “I repeat, an open-air monument was guarded by the same number of people to prevent Americans from getting in as would allow them to safely go in and out on a daily basis.”
Issa subpoenaed Jarvis during the hearing for a second time (he was already subpoenaed to appear before the Committee) in order to obtain documents, including e-mails and phone calls, related to the shutdown.
Democrats on the committees, including Oversight Committee ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), expressed exasperation that their Republican colleagues decided to hold the hearing in the first place. “Their approach puts ideology of one political party ahead of the interest of our entire nation. Even worse, if this issue is not resolved in the next few hours, we will begin defaulting on our debts, something our nation has never done before.”
“Do you know what really honors our nation’s heroes for their service and for their sacrifice?” Cummings asked. “Providing them with the benefits they earned after suffering injuries in combat. Paying them the pensions they need to cover their rent, their utility bills, their food and guaranteeing the assistance they rely on to stay off the streets and, in some cases, to simply stay alive.”
As details of the Senate-brokered deal to end the fiscal stalemate trickled out on Wednesday, the partisan divisions within the committees were on full display.
At one point, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.), posed an unusual question to the Park Service chief: “Director Jarvis, I’m just curious, the philosophy that you have as director of the Park Service. Do you believe our rights come from our creator or from our government and Constitution?”
Furious Democrats on the committees pushed back.
“I came to Congress to solve problems. I came to Congress to try to work across the aisle and raise the political discourse in this country and try to set a better tone,” said a frustrated Rep. Jared Huffman (D-Calif.). ”And, instead, I am taking part in a hearing that makes the McCarthy era look like the Enlightenment.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...parks-inquiry/
It's a shame that we have to even have an inquiry. It should have never happened, but human nature suggests that the side which becomes defensive and very angry is usually the guilty party.
#227
Moderator
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
#228
Moderator
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
#229
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
1. No, I don't think they're false at all. Goldberg's selected the quotes that (he feels) make Obama look bad, which is ironic, since it's simply Obama criticizing the GOP. What is your response to what Obama said, that the Republicans refuse to act unless they feel the "heat" is on? Would you say that's accurate? If not, why? Do you feel it's inappropriate for a political leader in a partisan system to point out his differences with members of the other party? If not, why? And if not, do you also feel that Republicans shouldn't criticize Democrats? And, again, if not, why?
But here is the fact that you can't get away from. The Republicans offered to fund needy services for cancer patients, and the president said he would veto it. This makes Obama look bad without any spin needed. Then he tries to excuse it by playing the blame game again and putting it on the GOP.
Does that include Fox News? Not sure what the purpose of this "question" is other than to try and make me feel intimidated.
#230
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
During a government shutdown, anything non-essential has to be shut down. Legally. Because there is no appropriations to pay for it. To the point of employees not checking email.
dvdjunkie, do you think the national parks could be deemed "essential" to government's core functionality? As in, national security, maintaining the courts, etc? Would you make the argument that they are essential, core functionality of the government that is so critical they must be run even without approved funding?
#231
Moderator
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Not that it matters, because the legislation never actually materialized.
#232
DVD Talk God
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Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Fox is certainly preferable to MSNBC.
At least you can see/hear the opposition (most of the time) on Fox. You seldom, if ever, hear the opposition on MSNBC.
At least you can see/hear the opposition (most of the time) on Fox. You seldom, if ever, hear the opposition on MSNBC.
#233
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
The Repubs did offer patchwork legislation along the way which was their way of saving face while getting taken behind the woodshed. It was a joke and anyone not completely consumed by Fox News understands the nonsensical game the Repubs were playing.
And the kicker was that they used right wing media to try and actually spin it as an Obama shutdown.
And the kicker was that they used right wing media to try and actually spin it as an Obama shutdown.
#234
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
The difference is that MSNBC usually have what you would call RINOs and FoxNews usually have liberal doormats.
#235
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
For example, NBC nightly news with Brian Williams failed to report on the Walmart EBT story, a pretty big story which makes food stamp recepients look pretty shitty. Instead, they reported that Macys would be open on Thanksgiving.
It wasn't the side that puffed up and got all defensive about it. That was the Democrats.
#236
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
My understanding of the situation is this. Anyone who understands better, correct me if I'm wrong.
During a government shutdown, anything non-essential has to be shut down. Legally. Because there is no appropriations to pay for it. To the point of employees not checking email.
dvdjunkie, do you think the national parks could be deemed "essential" to government's core functionality? As in, national security, maintaining the courts, etc? Would you make the argument that they are essential, core functionality of the government that is so critical they must be run even without approved funding?
During a government shutdown, anything non-essential has to be shut down. Legally. Because there is no appropriations to pay for it. To the point of employees not checking email.
dvdjunkie, do you think the national parks could be deemed "essential" to government's core functionality? As in, national security, maintaining the courts, etc? Would you make the argument that they are essential, core functionality of the government that is so critical they must be run even without approved funding?
Has this always happen historically, and why close a park or memorial when you are paying staff at the same or additional costs to maintain barriers? It's idiotic. I've even heard that the shutdown may cost taxpayers 26 billion dollars after the smoke clears.
And there's nothing to celebrate. They just kicked the can down the road. Both sides.
#237
Moderator
#238
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
House Republicans are planning no new proposals on the first day of a shutdown to fully fund the government, but they will introduce three small bills that would continue funding for veteran benefits, national parks and museums, plus another measure that would allow the District of Columbia to continue operating using its own revenue.
Although the move wouldn't end the budget impasse, the measures would ease some of the pain while lawmakers continue to try to find a path out of the standoff, and House leaders were preparing for votes Tuesday evening.
Senate Democrats, however, rejected the new offer outright. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Tuesday afternoon insisted, as he has throughout the entire process, that the Senate would accept nothing short of a bill that funds all government operations.
"The government is shut down," Reid said on the Senate floor. "And if they think they're going to nit-pick us on this, it won't work."
http://news.yahoo.com/government-shu...142635628.html
#239
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
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Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
#240
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
#241
RIP
#242
Moderator
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
#243
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Has this always happen historically, and why close a park or memorial when you are paying staff at the same or additional costs to maintain barriers? It's idiotic. I've even heard that the shutdown may cost taxpayers 26 billion dollars after the smoke clears.
And there's nothing to celebrate. They just kicked the can down the road. Both sides.
And there's nothing to celebrate. They just kicked the can down the road. Both sides.
So thus when there's no approved funding, you should keep running all of it anyway? No, because that would be illegal.
It's stupid to cause a government shutdown for exactly this reason. Economists likely agree that it COSTS money.
And you can thank the Tea Party Republicans for it.
dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33096.html
This kind of stuff is supposed to be hashed out in budget deals. Not by saying "**** our creditors on the stuff our party doesn't like".
Last edited by GreenMonkey; 10-17-13 at 01:15 PM.
#244
DVD Talk Hero
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
#246
Moderator
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
#247
DVD Talk Hero
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!

#248
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Only because he purposely delayed Obamacare for a year, and could still spin the fiction that this is a great thing for America. Now that people are finally starting to see it affect their pocketbooks, they aren't too happy, and they certainly aren't seeing the economy recover.
#249
DVD Talk Hero
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))
Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
Only because he purposely delayed Obamacare for a year, and could still spin the fiction that this is a great thing for America. Now that people are finally starting to see it affect their pocketbooks, they aren't too happy, and they certainly aren't seeing the economy recover.
#250
Moderator