Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Religion, Politics and World Events
Reload this Page >

How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film
View Poll Results: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? (from today / Tue. Oct. 7, 2013)
Less than 3 days
0
0%
3 more days or more, but less than 5 days
12.12%
5 more days or more, but less than 7 days
9.09%
7 more days or more, but less than 10 days
33.33%
10 more days or more, but less than 14 days
12.12%
14 more days or more, but less than 17 days
9.09%
17 more days or more, but less than 20 days
0
0%
20 more days or more, but less than 25 days
0
0%
25 more days or more, but less than 30 days
3.03%
30 more days or more ... potential coup and Military takes over government
21.21%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Old 10-17-13, 12:22 PM
  #226  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
When did you link to a news source? The link I saw was an editorial.
Can you provide a news source that proves that the Republicans were completely responsible for the shutdown of National Parks and monuments? So who told the park rangers to make things as difficult as possible?

Rather than offering solid facts to dispute the points in the article, you attack the author of the article.



Sparks flew at the contentious hearing in which Republicans blamed the National Park Service for unnecessarily using additional personnel to close down notable landmarks, including the World War II Memorial.
“Why, when I asked the police standing duty there personally, did they tell me that every policeman was on duty?” Issa said in a question posted to Park Service Director Jonathan Jarvis. “I repeat, an open-air monument was guarded by the same number of people to prevent Americans from getting in as would allow them to safely go in and out on a daily basis.”
Issa subpoenaed Jarvis during the hearing for a second time (he was already subpoenaed to appear before the Committee) in order to obtain documents, including e-mails and phone calls, related to the shutdown.
Democrats on the committees, including Oversight Committee ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), expressed exasperation that their Republican colleagues decided to hold the hearing in the first place. “Their approach puts ideology of one political party ahead of the interest of our entire nation. Even worse, if this issue is not resolved in the next few hours, we will begin defaulting on our debts, something our nation has never done before.”
“Do you know what really honors our nation’s heroes for their service and for their sacrifice?” Cummings asked. “Providing them with the benefits they earned after suffering injuries in combat. Paying them the pensions they need to cover their rent, their utility bills, their food and guaranteeing the assistance they rely on to stay off the streets and, in some cases, to simply stay alive.”
As details of the Senate-brokered deal to end the fiscal stalemate trickled out on Wednesday, the partisan divisions within the committees were on full display.
At one point, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.), posed an unusual question to the Park Service chief: “Director Jarvis, I’m just curious, the philosophy that you have as director of the Park Service. Do you believe our rights come from our creator or from our government and Constitution?”
Furious Democrats on the committees pushed back.
“I came to Congress to solve problems. I came to Congress to try to work across the aisle and raise the political discourse in this country and try to set a better tone,” said a frustrated Rep. Jared Huffman (D-Calif.). ”And, instead, I am taking part in a hearing that makes the McCarthy era look like the Enlightenment.”


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...parks-inquiry/


It's a shame that we have to even have an inquiry. It should have never happened, but human nature suggests that the side which becomes defensive and very angry is usually the guilty party.
Old 10-17-13, 12:28 PM
  #227  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: America!
Posts: 33,921
Received 163 Likes on 119 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
It should have never happened, but human nature suggests that the side which becomes defensive and very angry is usually the guilty party.
It's somewhat telling that you single out the Democrats as the side that became defensive and angry.
Old 10-17-13, 12:28 PM
  #228  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Can you provide a news source that proves that the Republicans were completely responsible for the shutdown of National Parks and monuments?
I never claimed they were.
Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Rather than offering solid facts to dispute the points in the article, you attack the author of the article.
No. All I said about the article was 1. that it was an editorial, not a news piece and 2. that the interpretation of Obama's comments didn't match the actual quotes.
Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
human nature suggests that the side which becomes defensive and very angry is usually the guilty party.
Remind me again which "side" it was that angrily stormed the WWII memorial?
Old 10-17-13, 12:34 PM
  #229  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
1. No, I don't think they're false at all. Goldberg's selected the quotes that (he feels) make Obama look bad, which is ironic, since it's simply Obama criticizing the GOP. What is your response to what Obama said, that the Republicans refuse to act unless they feel the "heat" is on? Would you say that's accurate? If not, why? Do you feel it's inappropriate for a political leader in a partisan system to point out his differences with members of the other party? If not, why? And if not, do you also feel that Republicans shouldn't criticize Democrats? And, again, if not, why?

But here is the fact that you can't get away from. The Republicans offered to fund needy services for cancer patients, and the president said he would veto it. This makes Obama look bad without any spin needed. Then he tries to excuse it by playing the blame game again and putting it on the GOP.

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post

2. I say this in all sincerity - if you knew exactly how much political news/information I consume on a daily basis, from a very wide variety of sources of all types, you would probably break down in tears.
Does that include Fox News? Not sure what the purpose of this "question" is other than to try and make me feel intimidated.
Old 10-17-13, 12:35 PM
  #230  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
GreenMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,576
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Can you provide a news source that proves that the Republicans were completely responsible for the shutdown of National Parks and monuments? So who told the park rangers to make things as difficult as possible?
My understanding of the situation is this. Anyone who understands better, correct me if I'm wrong.

During a government shutdown, anything non-essential has to be shut down. Legally. Because there is no appropriations to pay for it. To the point of employees not checking email.

dvdjunkie, do you think the national parks could be deemed "essential" to government's core functionality? As in, national security, maintaining the courts, etc? Would you make the argument that they are essential, core functionality of the government that is so critical they must be run even without approved funding?
Old 10-17-13, 12:36 PM
  #231  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
The Republicans offered to fund needy services for cancer patients, and the president said he would veto it.
Citation needed for both points...from a news article (Fox News is fine), not an editorial.

Not that it matters, because the legislation never actually materialized.
Old 10-17-13, 12:38 PM
  #232  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Fox is certainly preferable to MSNBC.

At least you can see/hear the opposition (most of the time) on Fox. You seldom, if ever, hear the opposition on MSNBC.
Old 10-17-13, 12:40 PM
  #233  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

The Repubs did offer patchwork legislation along the way which was their way of saving face while getting taken behind the woodshed. It was a joke and anyone not completely consumed by Fox News understands the nonsensical game the Repubs were playing.

And the kicker was that they used right wing media to try and actually spin it as an Obama shutdown.
Old 10-17-13, 12:41 PM
  #234  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Fox is certainly preferable to MSNBC.

At least you can see/hear the opposition (most of the time) on Fox. You seldom, if ever, hear the opposition on MSNBC.
I don't think either one has any sizable difference than the other. They both have their token adversaries on the payroll.

The difference is that MSNBC usually have what you would call RINOs and FoxNews usually have liberal doormats.
Old 10-17-13, 12:46 PM
  #235  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I never claimed they were.No. All I said about the article was 1. that it was an editorial, not a news piece
So it's impossible to become informed through an editorial? Most news organizations are biased in nature and don't just report up straight facts. So I could argue that it's all editorial.

For example, NBC nightly news with Brian Williams failed to report on the Walmart EBT story, a pretty big story which makes food stamp recepients look pretty shitty. Instead, they reported that Macys would be open on Thanksgiving.

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post

and 2. that the interpretation of Obama's comments didn't match the actual quotes.Remind me again which "side" it was that angrily stormed the WWII memorial?
It wasn't the side that puffed up and got all defensive about it. That was the Democrats.
Old 10-17-13, 12:50 PM
  #236  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
My understanding of the situation is this. Anyone who understands better, correct me if I'm wrong.

During a government shutdown, anything non-essential has to be shut down. Legally. Because there is no appropriations to pay for it. To the point of employees not checking email.

dvdjunkie, do you think the national parks could be deemed "essential" to government's core functionality? As in, national security, maintaining the courts, etc? Would you make the argument that they are essential, core functionality of the government that is so critical they must be run even without approved funding?

Has this always happen historically, and why close a park or memorial when you are paying staff at the same or additional costs to maintain barriers? It's idiotic. I've even heard that the shutdown may cost taxpayers 26 billion dollars after the smoke clears.

And there's nothing to celebrate. They just kicked the can down the road. Both sides.
Old 10-17-13, 12:50 PM
  #237  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
So it's impossible to become informed through an editorial?
You need to stop putting words in other poster's mouths. It's toxic to this forum.
Old 10-17-13, 12:55 PM
  #238  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Citation needed for both points...from a news article (Fox News is fine), not an editorial.

Not that it matters, because the legislation never actually materialized.

House Republicans are planning no new proposals on the first day of a shutdown to fully fund the government, but they will introduce three small bills that would continue funding for veteran benefits, national parks and museums, plus another measure that would allow the District of Columbia to continue operating using its own revenue.

Although the move wouldn't end the budget impasse, the measures would ease some of the pain while lawmakers continue to try to find a path out of the standoff, and House leaders were preparing for votes Tuesday evening.

Senate Democrats, however, rejected the new offer outright. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Tuesday afternoon insisted, as he has throughout the entire process, that the Senate would accept nothing short of a bill that funds all government operations.

"The government is shut down," Reid said on the Senate floor. "And if they think they're going to nit-pick us on this, it won't work."

http://news.yahoo.com/government-shu...142635628.html
Old 10-17-13, 12:56 PM
  #239  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
So it's impossible to become informed through an editorial? Most news organizations are biased in nature and don't just report up straight facts. So I could argue that it's all editorial.
That would be a pretty poor argument.
Old 10-17-13, 01:00 PM
  #240  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
You need to stop putting words in other poster's mouths. It's toxic to this forum.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how asking a question for clarification equals putting words in your mouth. I am not directly attributing words to you.
Old 10-17-13, 01:04 PM
  #241  
RIP
 
EddieMoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paradise, USA
Posts: 9,845
Received 36 Likes on 27 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't see how asking a question for clarification equals putting words in your mouth. I am not directly attributing words to you.
Yeah you are.
Old 10-17-13, 01:05 PM
  #242  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: America!
Posts: 33,921
Received 163 Likes on 119 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.

The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.

Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
Old 10-17-13, 01:06 PM
  #243  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
GreenMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,576
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Has this always happen historically, and why close a park or memorial when you are paying staff at the same or additional costs to maintain barriers? It's idiotic. I've even heard that the shutdown may cost taxpayers 26 billion dollars after the smoke clears.

And there's nothing to celebrate. They just kicked the can down the road. Both sides.
So let's reverse it some more. I'm sure it's the same for the USDA (inspection routes), government research (I saw a story about test lab rats and screwed up research studies), intelligence (civilian contractors for the NSA/FBI/etc laid off). Etc, etc, etc.

So thus when there's no approved funding, you should keep running all of it anyway? No, because that would be illegal.

It's stupid to cause a government shutdown for exactly this reason. Economists likely agree that it COSTS money.

And you can thank the Tea Party Republicans for it.

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.

The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.
Exactly. Turn it around. How about the Democrats do the same thing. Republicans are in charge in 2016. Democrats shut down the government and then say they'll authorize tiny spending bills for healthcare, unemployment, foodstamps, etc. And they don't authorize funding for oil company subsidies, the F-35 fighter jet, Republican pet tax breaks, and all of the earmarks from Republicans like these (just pulling something random).

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33096.html

This kind of stuff is supposed to be hashed out in budget deals. Not by saying "**** our creditors on the stuff our party doesn't like".

Last edited by GreenMonkey; 10-17-13 at 01:15 PM.
Old 10-17-13, 01:32 PM
  #244  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 39,390
Received 727 Likes on 461 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
dvdjunkie32, I'm going to try to explain this as clearly and concisely as possible, so please pay attention.

The GOP approach, of causing a government shutdown, and then offering to selectively fund only specific programs, is a novel approach, and had the Democrats given in to it, would have created a precedent where either party could resort to that tactic, effectively short-circuiting the constitutionally-mandated way of how our government is supposed to work. This could have potentially been disastrous for the U.S. government. This is not a partisan argument. This is simply the way it is. In this case, the GOP was trying to do something very, very wrong, and for several reasons, some entirely partisan, the Democrats refused to allow it.

Simply put, why should the Republicans get to decide what parts of the government get to operate and what parts don't, when the entirety of the government is supposed to operate?
Well said. The idea that Obama is the bad guy because he wouldn't agree to allow a few services to start again when it's the Republicans who shut down the ENTIRE government is insanity. Again, if the GOP cared as much as they want people to think they do, they would have worked harder to avoid the shutdown altogether.
Old 10-17-13, 01:45 PM
  #245  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Well, since they got absolutely no concessions, they could have voted on this on September 30.
Old 10-17-13, 02:00 PM
  #246  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.

In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
Old 10-17-13, 02:16 PM
  #247  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 33,838
Received 668 Likes on 475 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.

In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
What if he said: "She's a bitch, you can keep her" ?
Old 10-17-13, 02:16 PM
  #248  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Yet he just got reelected with a 5 million vote margin.
Only because he purposely delayed Obamacare for a year, and could still spin the fiction that this is a great thing for America. Now that people are finally starting to see it affect their pocketbooks, they aren't too happy, and they certainly aren't seeing the economy recover.
Old 10-17-13, 02:18 PM
  #249  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 39,390
Received 727 Likes on 461 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Person A kidnaps Person B's wife and kids. He then tries to strike a bargain with Person B: "I'll return your wife to you safe and sound, if you let me kill and eat your kids." Person B refuses.

In this scenario, Person B is the villain because he didn't allow his wife to be freed!
Which political party do they all belong to? This might factor into my outrage.

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Only because he purposely delayed Obamacare for a year, and could still spin the fiction that this is a great thing for America. Now that people are finally starting to see it affect their pocketbooks, they aren't too happy, and they certainly aren't seeing the economy recover.
You think those are all different people than the ones who didn't vote for him?
Old 10-17-13, 02:19 PM
  #250  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Re: How Much Longer Will the Government Shutdown Last? ( "place your bets" :-)))

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
What if he said: "She's a bitch, you can keep her" ?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.