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Government shut down stories

Old 10-08-13, 02:09 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

I was thinking we could just tell all the furloughed government workers that their desks need to be "guarded" by "security."

problem solved.
Old 10-08-13, 02:11 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Sure, but they function is essentially security right? Security seems to be one of the limited loop-holes in obtaining funding.
Still seems like you wouldn't need more security than you had before. In most of those places (open air ones), what would happen? People would mill around just like any other day?

Ask yourself this....what is it they are protecting, and what are they protecting it from?

If something bad happens, I think it will be as a result of having the security there and blockading everything off rather than because there wasn't enough security and people were allowed to see the open air monuments.
Old 10-08-13, 02:41 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
It's like, you know what? The Republicans shut the fucking government down. If you don't like that WWII veterans are being turned away from visiting the WWII memorial, then maybe you should let the Speaker know that. Blaming the fucking National Park Service for this is just crazy, you know?
Bullshit. The Republicans have sent budget after budget to the Democrats including funding the parks immediately and they refuse to even talk. Why the hell would you immediately shut down the national parks? It's not a huge money saver. Hell it is costing more to enforce the shutdown at the parks than it would to keep them open.

The truth is Obama wants to inflict maximum pain on the American people with this shutdown. Park rangers were told to make things as difficult as possible. Then blame it completely on House Republicans.

I'm constantly amazed that Obama keeps getting away with more and more shit, and his supporters turn a blind eye.
Old 10-08-13, 02:43 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bullshit. The Republicans have sent budget after budget to the Democrats including funding the parks immediately and they refuse to even talk. Why the hell would you immediately shut down the national parks? It's not a huge money saver. Hell it is costing more to enforce the shutdown at the parks than it would to keep them open.

The truth is Obama wants to inflict maximum pain on the American people with this shutdown. Park rangers were told to make things as difficult as possible. Then blame it completely on House Republicans.

I'm constantly amazed that Obama keeps getting away with more and more shit, and his supporters turn a blind eye.
The Affordable Healthcare Act is LAW. What part of that does your party not understand? It's off the table - there will be no delays. Why can't republicans move forward?
Old 10-08-13, 02:44 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...back-pay-bill/

Republicans to block quick passage of back-pay bill

(CNN) - Quick passage of a bill to provide back-pay to furloughed federal workers appeared in doubt on Monday when the No. 2 Senate Republican said it’s not time to address that issue right now.

“I think it’s really premature to be dealing with that until we resolve the underlying problem,” said Sen. John Cornyn of Texas. “We’ve offered a number of bills to try to alleviate some of the hardship and they’ve been swatted down out of hand.”

Cornyn said he didn’t expect Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to bring it to the floor because of GOP objections.

The House unanimously passed a bill on Saturday to provide back pay to the hundreds of thousands of federal employees impacted by the government shutdown, and the White House said it supported it.

In past shutdowns, Congress routinely approved similar measures.

“There is no sense of urgency for us to do it. The federal government is shut down,” said Sen. Richard Burr, a Republican of North Carolina who supports providing back pay but not until the government has reopened. “I think it’s very legitimate to take our time on this and hopefully Senator Reid will open it up for amendments and we can see how it ends up.”

Cornyn said if Democrats put the bill on the floor Republicans would not be okay with legislative shortcuts to pass it – such as a voice vote or unanimous consent agreement.

Asked if the bill should be subject to amendments and filibusters – procedures that could delay passage for several days - Cornyn said, “yeah, we ought to legislate.”
I remember being very surprised how quickly this bill seemed to be progressing towards passage when the House voted unanimously to pass it. Not any more.

It does seem intrinsically unfair to me that a huge number of Federal employees who are not working would get full pay for sitting at home (albeit not by their choice) while hundreds of thousands of other "essential" employees who were told they had to continue working as normal with the possibility (which still exists) that they might not even be paid for their work only get the same full pay.
Old 10-08-13, 02:52 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
It does seem intrinsically unfair to me that a huge number of Federal employees who are not working would get full pay for sitting at home (albeit not by their choice) while hundreds of thousands of other "essential" employees who were told they had to continue working as normal with the possibility (which still exists) that they might not even be paid for their work only get the same full pay.
The only thing is that a lot of these non-essential furloughed employees sitting at home can only really do that, just sit at home. Considering they have to be prepared to return to work at any moment, I think they've been told they're not allowed to travel. So, unless someone had previously planned on traveling this week or last week (or next week or the week after), it's not like these employees can just pick up and head to another part of the country for a "vacation."
Old 10-08-13, 03:08 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
The only thing is that a lot of these non-essential furloughed employees sitting at home can only really do that, just sit at home. Considering they have to be prepared to return to work at any moment, I think they've been told they're not allowed to travel. So, unless someone had previously planned on traveling this week or last week (or next week or the week after), it's not like these employees can just pick up and head to another part of the country for a "vacation."
You'll note that I never used the word "vacation" and would not have, as it is obviously inappropriate. I also doubt seriously that any agency can prevent their furloughed employees from taking a real vacation since they cannot submit leave requests as normal due to not being allowed to access their work systems. No one is going to be called back "at any moment". I think it is a safe bet that everyone will get at least 24 and probably 48-72 hours (if over a weekend) notice before they return.

The fact of the matter is that the taxpayers are about to spend many millions of dollars to pay people for not working. Whether or not it is their fault (which it obviously isn't) is kind of beside the point.

In the interest of full disclosure, I live in DC and have numerous Federal employees among my closest friends. Some were furloughed, some were not. One made a suggestion of a compromise that I think is pretty fair. Furloughed employees would be able to trade in accrued leave in exchange for their pay. Anyone who did not have enough accrued leave would be able to go into a negative leave balance to receive full salary for their time on furlough.

Personally, I thought that was a tad too onerous so I would suggest they have to turn in accrued leave at a 1:2 ratio (4 hours of annual leave equals 8 hours of pay). Either way, non-furloughed employees get paid as normal.
Old 10-08-13, 03:15 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I also doubt seriously that any agency can prevent their furloughed employees from taking a real vacation since they cannot submit leave requests as normal due to not being allowed to access their work systems.
Depends on the length of the vacation. Don't certain vaction requests need to be approved at least a couple weeks in advance?

I can't imagine many federal workers can tell their supervisor on a friday "oh, by the way, I'm not going to be in work next week, I'll be on vacation."

Sadly, I can imagine there are some that can (and do).

Maybe not "a moment's notice" but if a deal was struck tomorrow morning, I'd expect people to be back at work not tomorrow afternoon, but the following day (still less than 24 hours).

I do know people who have been furloughed that would have loved to have taken this time to fly to visit relatives, but they were told not to.
Old 10-08-13, 03:16 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Why is that sad? I'd love that kind of flexibility around leave.

Oh, and my supervisor would frown on me doing that for an entire week of vacation, but one or two days? She would be fine with it.
Old 10-08-13, 03:19 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Why is that sad? I'd love that kind of flexibility around leave.
You think "public servants" should be able to take a week off from work with no notice?

If a private company wants to do that, that's one thing. But should people supported by tax payers be able to fuck over their co-workers like that?
Old 10-08-13, 03:22 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
You think "public servants" should be able to take a week off from work with no notice?

If a private company wants to do that, that's one thing. But should people supported by tax payers be able to fuck over their co-workers like that?
Well, considering that this is a hypothetical scenario featuring fictional federal employees... yes? I mean, who cares? If their fictional supervisor assesses their workload and agrees that their fictional employee can take a week off without causing a problem, and the fictional employee has the time accrued, what do you care?
Old 10-08-13, 03:26 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I'm constantly amazed that Obama keeps getting away with more and more shit, and his supporters turn a blind eye.
Those supporters aren't blinded by racism.

Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
The Affordable Healthcare Act is LAW. What part of that does your party not understand? It's off the table - there will be no delays. Why can't republicans move forward?
The House holding the purse strings is also law. You ought to remember that.

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
It does seem intrinsically unfair to me that a huge number of Federal employees who are not working would get full pay for sitting at home (albeit not by their choice) while hundreds of thousands of other "essential" employees who were told they had to continue working as normal with the possibility (which still exists) that they might not even be paid for their work only get the same full pay.
had a furloughed federal worker in my office today. She said the same thing. She is happy to take the money, but said that with all our debt, etc., we shouldn't be paying people not to work. She even acknowledged that it was a drop in the bucket when you look at our debt/deficit, but still felt it was wrong.
Old 10-08-13, 03:27 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I don't have a straight face.
Oh Tracer
Old 10-08-13, 03:57 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bullshit. The Republicans have sent budget after budget to the Democrats including funding the parks immediately and they refuse to even talk. Why the hell would you immediately shut down the national parks? It's not a huge money saver. Hell it is costing more to enforce the shutdown at the parks than it would to keep them open.

The truth is Obama wants to inflict maximum pain on the American people with this shutdown. Park rangers were told to make things as difficult as possible. Then blame it completely on House Republicans.

I'm constantly amazed that Obama keeps getting away with more and more shit, and his supporters turn a blind eye.
You don't know what you're talking about. The government was shut down because it is against the law for non-essential employees to work in absence of appropriations. As a Fed, if I do any work, including simply logging in to my agency's network or reading email, I've been advised that I am subject to discipline, which could include criminal changes and up to 2 years in prison. No, I'm not kidding.

While I could survive not getting paid for this time, there are many government workers earning much less that can't. It seems somewhat cruel to screw them over due to no fault of their own.
Old 10-08-13, 04:44 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
The House holding the purse strings is also law. You ought to remember that.
The House is not proposing a budget that defunds the ACA. They are proposing a budget that also, as a rider, delays the individual mandate for a year. Hard to call what they are doing an extension of their budgetary powers when what they are insisting upon isn't even a legitimate budgetary adjustment, isn't it?

There is a reason why they didn't try and just hold the budget hostage and actually defund the ACA. That would have been too overt and would have swayed public opinion even more against them.

But let's assume that they did try and defund the ACA instead of delay it. Do you really think the House should be able to cherrypick which laws they will fund and which ones they won't in the course of introducing a Federal budget, regardless of the will of the people, the Senate and the executive branch? is that how you think our government should run?
Old 10-08-13, 04:51 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
The House is not proposing a budget that defunds the ACA. They are proposing a budget that also, as a rider, delays the individual mandate for a year. Hard to call what they are doing an extension of their budgetary powers when what they are insisting upon isn't even a legitimate budgetary adjustment, isn't it?

There is a reason why they didn't try and just hold the budget hostage and actually defund the ACA. That would have been too overt and would have swayed public opinion even more against them.

But let's assume that they did try and defund the ACA instead of delay it. Do you really think the House should be able to cherrypick which laws they will fund and which ones they won't in the course of introducing a Federal budget, regardless of the will of the people, the Senate and the executive branch? is that how you think our government should run?
Are they really proposing a budget? I thought it was a just a continuing resolution of the last passed budget.
Old 10-08-13, 04:58 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Is it a dick move to threaten war heroes with arrest for visiting an open air outdoor marble memorial?
Is it a dick move to bus them in just to cause a scene?
Old 10-08-13, 05:01 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Is it a dick move to bus them in just to cause a scene?
http://www.honorflight.org/

You're right. This certainly sounds like they've been bussed in just to cause a scene.
Old 10-08-13, 05:46 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bullshit. The Republicans have sent budget after budget to the Democrats including funding the parks immediately and they refuse to even talk. Why the hell would you immediately shut down the national parks? It's not a huge money saver. Hell it is costing more to enforce the shutdown at the parks than it would to keep them open.

The truth is Obama wants to inflict maximum pain on the American people with this shutdown. Park rangers were told to make things as difficult as possible. Then blame it completely on House Republicans.

I'm constantly amazed that Obama keeps getting away with more and more shit, and his supporters turn a blind eye.
The Republicans proposed that they eat their french fries and dessert. President Obama is insisting that the meal needs to include steak and vegetables too. And you're wondering why he doesn't immediately start feeding the Republicans their french fries and worry about the vegetables later.
Old 10-08-13, 06:15 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Why do you think I'm blaming the National Park Service? I think these decisions are made above that level.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you believe that there is nothing political about the decision to let this rally take place today? That Nancy Pelosi being a featured guest has nothing to do with this decision? That 2 major unions (AFL-CIO & SEIU) being co-hosts has nothing to do with this decision?
Lets be honest. The administration (Obama) picks and chooses according to what appears to be most damaging to their political opponents. NPS is part of the administration and obeys orders from "on high."
Old 10-08-13, 06:31 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Well shit, now I want french fries.
Old 10-08-13, 07:06 PM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
The House is not proposing a budget that defunds the ACA. They are proposing a budget that also, as a rider, delays the individual mandate for a year. Hard to call what they are doing an extension of their budgetary powers when what they are insisting upon isn't even a legitimate budgetary adjustment, isn't it?
True, they aren't proposing a budgetary adjustment. They tried that. They are now in what is known in politics as "negotiations."

But let's assume that they did try and defund the ACA instead of delay it. Do you really think the House should be able to cherrypick which laws they will fund and which ones they won't in the course of introducing a Federal budget, regardless of the will of the people, the Senate and the executive branch? is that how you think our government should run?
Hey, I didn't write the constitution. If Obama can decide what laws to enforce and what ones he won't, then I don't see this as some great leap.
Old 10-09-13, 09:55 AM
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Re: Government shut down stories

A Week Into the Shutdown, Government Buys $47,174 Mechanical Bull

Is this bull being used as a "security guard"
Old 10-09-13, 10:14 AM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
The House is not proposing a budget that defunds the ACA. They are proposing a budget that also, as a rider, delays the individual mandate for a year. Hard to call what they are doing an extension of their budgetary powers when what they are insisting upon isn't even a legitimate budgetary adjustment, isn't it?

There is a reason why they didn't try and just hold the budget hostage and actually defund the ACA. That would have been too overt and would have swayed public opinion even more against them.

But let's assume that they did try and defund the ACA instead of delay it. Do you really think the House should be able to cherrypick which laws they will fund and which ones they won't in the course of introducing a Federal budget, regardless of the will of the people, the Senate and the executive branch? is that how you think our government should run?
Give that the mandate is a tax I think if falls well within the budgetary powers of congress and is a perfectly valid issue to attach to budget bills.

Regarding your final point, I think it is sad that the democratic led Senate has avoided using the normal budget process for so many years that some people, apparently even Ried himself, think it inappropriate for congress to "cherry pick" individual program budgets when appropriating funds.
Old 10-09-13, 10:14 AM
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Re: Government shut down stories

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
A Week Into the Shutdown, Government Buys $47,174 Mechanical Bull

Is this bull being used as a "security guard"
Get ready to hear about why that isn't a big deal. It isn't a big deal, but that doesn't mean that it isn't funny.

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