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Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Old 10-06-13, 01:08 PM
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Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

If this gets passed, I think a lot of people who currently have jobs will quit them.

People with creative jobs who strongly enjoy them will probably want to keep working: artists, musicians, scientists, inventors, etc.

But why would anyone who works as a janitor, cashier, waitress, or bedpan-changer want to keep their job under this new system?

If this does pass, it will be quite an interesting real world experiment about good intentions leading to horrible outcomes:


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...181937885.html

Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

October 5, 2013

More than 100,000 residents in Switzerland have signed a petition demanding that the government ensure a minimum monthly income of nearly $2,800 (2,500 Swiss francs) for all adults in the country.

The 120,000 signatures are enough to formally call a vote in the government over whether or not to approve the “CHF 2,500 monthly for everyone" (Grundeinkommen)” funding proposal.


For comparison, the average U.S. worker earned $3,769 in pre-tax, monthly salary in 2011. Food service industry workers earned $1,785 in pre-tax income during the same period.

MSN reports that in a public display of support, advocates tipped over a truck full of 8 million five-cent coins in front of the Swiss capital on Friday, one coin for each of the country’s citizens.

A formal date has yet to be set for the vote but it could come as early as this year, pending guidance from Swiss government.

Funding for the proposed measure would come out of the Swiss social insurance system, which already guarantees universal health care coverage for its citizens, along with other benefits designed to uphold the country’s social safety net.

Because of the relatively low threshold for forcing votes on referendum driven issues, Switzerland typically votes on several public measures each year.

For example, on November 24th, the country will vote on a separate measure that would limit executive pay to the same amount paid to a company’s lowest paid staff member.

The so-called 1:12 initiative has received support from the Swiss government’s Social Democrat bloc.

At least one of Switzerland’s biggest CEO’s has said if the measure passes, he would consider moving his company out of the country .

“I can’t believe that Switzerland would cause such great harm to its economy,” Glencore CEO Ivan Glasenberg told the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation. “And I say that not just as the head of a company, but as a Swiss citizen.”

Glencore said the measure could have a disastrous effect on other Swiss companies, including Nestlé, Novartis and Roche.

Of course, not all of the country’s referendums are meant to promote a socialist state. For example, a majority of Swiss voters have voiced support for a referendum that would maintain the country’s conscription policy , which requires all men in the country aged 18-34 to complete a period of public service.

Last edited by grundle; 10-06-13 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 10-06-13, 01:36 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

“I can’t believe that Switzerland would cause such great harm to its economy,” Glencore CEO Ivan Glasenberg told the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation. “And I say that not just as the head of a company, but as a Swiss citizen.”
South-African born Ivan Glasenberg became a Swiss Citizen in 2011. Yeah, I'm sure he knows what a true Swiss Citizen would want.
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Old 10-06-13, 01:37 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Sure, why not.
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Old 10-06-13, 02:09 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

And we care what other countries do...why? Hell, people in Alaska get a check just for living there. What's the problem, exactly? Just trying to figure out where to direct my outrage.
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Old 10-06-13, 03:18 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
And we care what other countries do...why? Hell, people in Alaska get a check just for living there. What's the problem, exactly? Just trying to figure out where to direct my outrage.
We can't have other countries doing shenanigans like this because it'll just rile up the poors and make them think they, you know, deserve some actual standard of living. 99% of them already have refrigerators, what more could they want?
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Old 10-06-13, 04:25 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
And we care what other countries do...why? Hell, people in Alaska get a check just for living there. What's the problem, exactly? Just trying to figure out where to direct my outrage.
Hardly the same thing. I think the outrage is because this is exactly the same thing people would support here. Note the post after yours.
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Old 10-06-13, 06:01 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

And that still wouldn't cut it. Switzerland is on the Euro, right?
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Old 10-06-13, 07:00 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
And that still wouldn't cut it. Switzerland is on the Euro, right?
Nope. Switzerland isn't in the Eurozone, and isn't even a EU member state.
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Old 10-06-13, 08:04 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

How dare other countries not be run like some Americans would like them to be!
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Old 10-06-13, 08:25 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
How dare other countries not be run like some Americans would like them to be!
Because I'm jealous. That's why!
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Old 10-06-13, 08:48 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

So, where exactly is this free money supposed to come from? If the Swiss just vote themselves a government-provided stipend, won't the Government have to cut services to pay for this, or print lots and lots of Swiss Francs, devaluing the money nationally?

And what will they do when freeloaders from France, Greece, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Greece, and Greece all start moving to Switzerland just to get in on this cash grab?
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Old 10-06-13, 09:07 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
How dare other countries not be run like some Americans would like them to be!
How dare we have an opinion regarding beliefs shared by many other Americans!
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Old 10-06-13, 09:10 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Wow. So much ignorance of basic facts and so little understanding of basic politics and economics. All in one thread.

Lovely.
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Old 10-06-13, 09:36 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Because I'm jealous. That's why!

The old people on SS would love this as the average SS payment is about $1200 a month.

I think some Arab oil countries do this. I think it's like $4,000 a month in Saudi Arabia. Doesn't Alaska pay all its residents about $2,000 a year from oil tax revenues?
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Old 10-06-13, 09:39 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

The old people on SS would love this as the average SS payment is about $1200 a month.

I think some Arab oil countries do this. I think it's like $4,000 a month in Saudi Arabia. Doesn't Alaska pay all its residents about $2,000 a year from oil tax revenues?
It actually averages to around a $1000 a year.
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Old 10-06-13, 10:01 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

But Alaska and the Arab oil countrys actually makes $$ off the oil and redistributes the profits to residents. Isn't what Switzerland is doing just Wealth Redistribution? I think its a little different to say we pay our citizens divendends off the earnings from mining natural resources than Peter we are robbing you to pay Paul.
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Old 10-06-13, 10:14 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

If you think about how much Americans pay in taxes from state and federal, how much of a percentage is Sweden taking from it's citizens? Seems like Americans are paying some rather high taxes, but getting little for it.
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Old 10-06-13, 10:52 PM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

I think it's a wonderful, long-overdue initiative. I'm just not sure it will work. But I wish the Swiss the best of luck. I hope it's successful and serves as a paradigm for other egalitarian-minded nations to follow.
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Old 10-07-13, 01:14 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
How dare we have an opinion regarding beliefs shared by many other Americans!
And I'm sure they constantly use countries they know nothing about to make their points!
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Old 10-07-13, 02:56 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Nope. Switzerland isn't in the Eurozone, and isn't even a EU member state.
In that case that's actually kind of cool. Granted, the cost of everything is uber expensive.

My friend was telling me that you have tons of immigration from Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, and Finland, because tons of those jobs available in those countries pay a shitload per hour - that you have those same fellow Northern Europeans immigrating to those countries to snag a job.

It's like some one from Switzerland immigrated to Denmark to make $30 an hour in a country that that same gig only pays $25 an hour.

If that makes sense.

Last edited by Why So Blu?; 10-07-13 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 10-07-13, 07:24 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
But Alaska and the Arab oil countrys actually makes $$ off the oil and redistributes the profits to residents. Isn't what Switzerland is doing just Wealth Redistribution? I think its a little different to say we pay our citizens divendends off the earnings from mining natural resources than Peter we are robbing you to pay Paul.
Switzerland has a lot of untapped chocolate forests and cuckoo clock reserves.
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Old 10-07-13, 08:10 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
In that case that's actually kind of cool. Granted, the cost of everything is uber expensive.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...=United+States

Here is the breakdown:

Consumer Prices in United States are 48.22% lower than in Switzerland

Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 47.33% lower than in Switzerland

Rent Prices in United States are 45.15% lower than in Switzerland

Restaurant Prices in United States are 52.41% lower than in Switzerland

Groceries Prices in United States are 47.88% lower than in Switzerland

Local Purchasing Power in United States is 1.66% higher than in Switzerland
More specificity at the link if anyone is curious. Regardless, $2800/mo in Zurich doesn't go nearly as far as it would in Philadelphia.

Let's just round it generally and call it 40% more expensive there. That would still be the equivalent of a more than $20,000/year handout by U.S. standards.
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Old 10-07-13, 08:34 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Nope. Switzerland isn't in the Eurozone, and isn't even a EU member state.
This map is kind of hilarious:

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Old 10-07-13, 08:35 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by kenbuzz View Post
And what will they do when freeloaders from France, Greece, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Greece, and Greece all start moving to Switzerland just to get in on this cash grab?
They can't. Switzerland isn't a member state of the EU.
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Old 10-07-13, 08:36 AM
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Re: Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
How dare other countries not be run like some Americans would like them to be!
Yeah, I really am starting to get tired of living here. If I could figure out how to immigrate to Canada, I would.
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