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District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

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District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Old 08-17-13, 07:32 AM
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District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

This judge is an idiot. There is no "constitutional right" for U.S. citizens to be covered by Sharia law.


http://therightscoop.com/district-ju...law-in-courts/

District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

August 16, 2013

The judge says that “upholding an individual’s constitutional rights” is more important than the will of the masses. I would agree if indeed the will of the masses violated the constitutional rights of an individual. However, I’m not sure how it’s an “individual’s constitutional right” to have a US court consider sharia or international law when adjudicating a case:

CBN NEWS – A U.S. district judge permanently blocked an Oklahoma law forbidding courts from considering Islamic or international law when deciding cases.

“While the public has an interest in the will of the voters being carried out, the court finds that the public has a more profound and long-term interest in upholding an individual’s constitutional rights,” the judge wrote according to Tulsa World.

Oklahoma voters passed the measure in 2010 with 70 percent of voters supporting it, but U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange issued a temporary injunction after a Muslim resident sued.

On Thursday the U.S. district judge made the ban permanent when she issued an order forbidding the State Election Board from certifying the election.
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Old 08-17-13, 08:41 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

I like it. The meaningless threat of sharia law is a welcome relief from hearing about the non-existent war on Christmas.
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Old 08-17-13, 09:44 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
This judge is an idiot. There is no "constitutional right" for U.S. citizens to be covered by Sharia law.
grundle, if you and I want to enter into a contract and agree that the terms of our contract are to be decided pursuant to Sharia law, are you saying we don't have that right?
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Old 08-17-13, 10:39 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I like it. The meaningless threat of sharia law is a welcome relief from hearing about the non-existent war on Christmas.
There are certain parts of the country that would be in danger of picking up Sharia law. If you are afraid of Christians influence on law, I sure don't know why you wouldn't be equally as afraid of extreme Muslim influence.

I am concerned when anyone who wants to legislate morality.
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Old 08-17-13, 11:28 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Maybe I read it and took it wrong. It doesn't seem to say than anyone can be convicted based on Sharia Law, or that it in any way supersedes US law from what I read. If one brought up Sharia law in a case, wouldn't it be fairly meaningless anyway?
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Old 08-17-13, 12:32 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Oklahoma voters passed the measure in 2010 with 70 percent of voters supporting it, but U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange issued a temporary injunction after a Muslim resident sued.
I think that's the more important issue here, unless I'm missing something (and I'll probably have to read the actual ruling more as this little tidbit doesn't help much).

In any case:

1) Voters wanted it.

2) One person says your vote doesn't count because I know what's best for you and over-rules the votes of the majority.

I'd be very interested in U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange's political history and her other rulings.
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Old 08-17-13, 12:32 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

You do know how our judicial system works, right? The will of the majority doesn't matter if the law violates the Constitution in some way. I haven't read the ruling, so I don't know the exact nature of the claim being made, but I highly doubt this is the act of some radical Muslim who happened to get onto the bench.
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Old 08-17-13, 12:35 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Sigh View Post
Jason, aren't you a lawyer? That's not what this ruling is saying according to the link.
I think it does have something to do with this, but I'll have to look at it more. It could be U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange doesn't want any type of foreign element involved when making a "contract" on US territory. At least I'm hoping this is the case.
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Old 08-17-13, 12:38 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You do know how our judicial system works, right? The will of the majority doesn't matter if the law violates the Constitution in some way. I haven't read the ruling, so I don't know the exact nature of the claim being made, but I highly doubt this is the act of some radical Muslim who happened to get onto the bench.
Wouldn't you think Constitutionality should be thought about before taking the matter to voters and having it become law? This brings up another point about voting on issues. Why vote if the law hasn't been filtered.

I would bet a lot of laws which are voted on and passed, probably aren't Constitutional per se but nobody has challenged them so somebody doesn't go over them with a fine legal comb.
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Old 08-17-13, 12:45 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Laws don't have to be vetted beforehand for Constitutionality. The job of the court is to decide such things. However, you are correct, someone has to challenge the law in order for it to be reviewed. In this case, someone did that. I don't see that as a single person overriding the will of the majority.
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Old 08-17-13, 12:55 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Well, when I mean single person, I'm referring to the Judge who did this. The person who brought the suit isn't particularly in my legal sights--as long they are a US Citizen. If a US Citizen, they have every right to challenge a law.

What concerns me more is we have Judges who frequently do this to voters across The United States which erodes what a community/group of people want in that particular area, and forces a generalized political view on voters.
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Old 08-17-13, 01:02 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Again, you haven't read the ruling, so it may be perfectly sound reasoning for blocking this law. Second, that's what appeals are for, and I am sure this will be appealed.
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Old 08-17-13, 01:12 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I am sure this will be appealed.
By that time, sharia will be the law of the land. Good luck getting Ayatollah Obama to allow the appeal.
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Old 08-17-13, 03:46 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Sigh View Post
Jason, aren't you a lawyer? That's not what this ruling is saying according to the link.
That link is terrible. Here's the actual order:

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/awa...x_--_order.pdf

What the order basically says is that Oklahoma has demonstrated no compelling reason to single out Sharia law as opposed to, say, Jewish law or Catholic canon law. They never even get into the implications of the proposed ban because when Oklahoma was asked to justify the ban, they couldn't come up with anything.

My question for grundle was beyond the scope of the opinion, but a logical implication of banning Sharia law. Since grundle seems to be a strong supporter of the idea that private parties should be able to contract however they want, I wanted to ask his reaction of the anti-freedom-of-contract implications of a Sharia law ban.
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Old 08-17-13, 03:48 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I think that's the more important issue here, unless I'm missing something (and I'll probably have to read the actual ruling more as this little tidbit doesn't help much).

In any case:

1) Voters wanted it.

2) One person says your vote doesn't count because I know what's best for you and over-rules the votes of the majority.

I'd be very interested in U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange's political history and her other rulings.
So if we have a vote on whether to beat the crap out of DVD Polizei and the ayes outpoll the nays, you would be OK with us beating the crap out of you?
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Old 08-17-13, 05:58 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
So if we have a vote on whether to beat the crap out of DVD Polizei and the ayes outpoll the nays, you would be OK with us beating the crap out of you?
I for one am a strong proponent of this legislation and hope to bring it to a referendum next year.
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Old 08-17-13, 06:26 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Private arbitration. If both parties agree to bound by Sharia Law (or Catholic law or Hasidic law, or whatever religion they belong to), then they should be allowed to do so.

Seems like it would fall under the First Amendment, no?
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Old 08-17-13, 07:54 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Private arbitration. If both parties agree to bound by Sharia Law (or Catholic law or Hasidic law, or whatever religion they belong to), then they should be allowed to do so.

Seems like it would fall under the First Amendment, no?
Sure, as long is it doesn't contradict our real law.
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Old 08-18-13, 01:38 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Private arbitration. If both parties agree to bound by Sharia Law (or Catholic law or Hasidic law, or whatever religion they belong to), then they should be allowed to do so.

Seems like it would fall under the First Amendment, no?
Don't even need the first amendment. See the Contract Clause (Art. 1, Sec 10).
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Old 08-18-13, 02:25 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
This judge is an idiot. There is no "constitutional right" for U.S. citizens to be covered by Sharia law.


http://therightscoop.com/district-ju...law-in-courts/

District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

August 16, 2013

The judge says that “upholding an individual’s constitutional rights” is more important than the will of the masses. I would agree if indeed the will of the masses violated the constitutional rights of an individual. However, I’m not sure how it’s an “individual’s constitutional right” to have a US court consider sharia or international law when adjudicating a case:

CBN NEWS – A U.S. district judge permanently blocked an Oklahoma law forbidding courts from considering Islamic or international law when deciding cases.

“While the public has an interest in the will of the voters being carried out, the court finds that the public has a more profound and long-term interest in upholding an individual’s constitutional rights,” the judge wrote according to Tulsa World.

Oklahoma voters passed the measure in 2010 with 70 percent of voters supporting it, but U.S. District Judge Vickie Miles-Legrange issued a temporary injunction after a Muslim resident sued.

On Thursday the U.S. district judge made the ban permanent when she issued an order forbidding the State Election Board from certifying the election.
Excellent news; someone actually is willing to stand by American citizens, instead of caving to terrorist pressure. I only wish our current Presidential administration would do the same.
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Old 08-18-13, 08:11 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
2) One person says your vote doesn't count because I know what's best for you and over-rules the votes of the majority.
There's this thing called the Constitution that conservatives like to throw in your face when it's convenient, but I guess when it doesn't agree with you it's just a "goddamn piece of paper", right?
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Old 08-18-13, 08:12 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
Excellent news; someone actually is willing to stand by American citizens, instead of caving to terrorist pressure. I only wish our current Presidential administration would do the same.
Well, for that to happen, he would have to not be a terrorist himself, right?
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Old 08-18-13, 08:32 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

I agree that these laws are largely meaningless. If enough people want Sharia law, that's going to be the law to the degree that the people who want it are able to implement it. And when you have large concentrations of people who want it, it's going to be nearly impossible to completely prevent it being implemented in those areas, barring the use of force.

In many of the Muslim enclaves in Europe, it's still technically legal for an unveiled woman to walk around in a halter top, it's legal to publicly eat and drink during Ramadan, it's legal to sell pork or alcohol, it's legal to preach Christianity from a street corner, it's legal for a gay couple to walk through the streets holding hands, it's legal for a Jewish man to hold hands with a Muslim woman----but these things are de facto prohibited.

Sure, if you believe in your own values strongly enough, you can use force---as Kennedy did when he sent in the National Guard to desegregate schools. But the idea that "if you just pass a law then everyone will accept it" is just naive, IMO.
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Old 08-18-13, 10:34 AM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Sure, if you believe in your own values strongly enough, you can use force---as Kennedy did when he sent in the National Guard to desegregate schools. But the idea that "if you just pass a law then everyone will accept it" is just naive, IMO.
Reminds me of all this "gun control" crap. News flash to liberal activists and other haters of America: more murders are committed with handguns every day and year in the United States, than with assault rifles. Hold the killers responsible, not their methods.
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Old 08-18-13, 02:50 PM
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Re: District Judge permanently blocks Oklahoma law forbidding sharia law in courts

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I agree that these laws are largely meaningless. If enough people want Sharia law, that's going to be the law to the degree that the people who want it are able to implement it. And when you have large concentrations of people who want it, it's going to be nearly impossible to completely prevent it being implemented in those areas, barring the use of force.

In many of the Muslim enclaves in Europe, it's still technically legal for an unveiled woman to walk around in a halter top, it's legal to publicly eat and drink during Ramadan, it's legal to sell pork or alcohol, it's legal to preach Christianity from a street corner, it's legal for a gay couple to walk through the streets holding hands, it's legal for a Jewish man to hold hands with a Muslim woman----but these things are de facto prohibited.

Sure, if you believe in your own values strongly enough, you can use force---as Kennedy did when he sent in the National Guard to desegregate schools. But the idea that "if you just pass a law then everyone will accept it" is just naive, IMO.
Yes, it's like those areas of Israel where the ultra-Orthodox live. If women go there and do not dress appropriately, they risk being assaulted. Ain't religion grand?

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
Reminds me of all this "gun control" crap. News flash to liberal activists and other haters of America: more murders are committed with handguns every day and year in the United States, than with assault rifles. Hold the killers responsible, not their methods.
What in God's green fuckhole does this have to do with the topic at hand?
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