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Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Old 08-16-13, 03:33 PM
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Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Please, no blanket remarks like "it sucks", "they're stupid", etc. This thread is an honest attempt to discuss the merits of the film, and what it represents.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IdCppzXnPfs?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I strongly believe people only hate "The Passion" for one reason...they're scared of losing control, admitting nothing they do will ever be enough to save them. They try to talk themselves out of what they know is true, hoping against sanity that false ignorance will "win them points" with the Father...but it won't. God is incredibly loving, but He's not soft. Jesus willingly became the embodiment of all sin on that cross, to spare everyone their rightfully just fate. None of us - myself included - are any better than another in God's eyes; He doesn't have favorites.

To this day - almost ten years later - I still applaud both Caviezel and Gibson for daring to stick with the truth. A few minor extra-Biblical references aside, this movie still touches my heart in ways no other film ever has...or probably will.

"God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." ~2 Corinthians 5:21, NIV~

Last edited by moviefan2k4; 08-16-13 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 08-16-13, 03:39 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Collective bargaining agreement?
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Old 08-16-13, 03:42 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by cdollaz View Post
Collective bargaining agreement?
Beg your pardon?
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Old 08-16-13, 03:44 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

The Last Temptation of Christ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Passion of the Christ
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Old 08-16-13, 03:46 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
The Last Temptation of Christ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Passion of the Christ
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Old 08-16-13, 03:46 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

"So many" people hate this movie? I haven't heard anyone really talk about it since it came out. I think your opinion of the singular reason people don't like it is total nonsense and projection of your personal struggles.

I saw it in theaters, I didn't hate it - Gibson is good behind the lens - but it was basically torture porn for Christians. Just not much going on as a movie to be very interesting to me. I can see the appeal I guess, for people who already have strong feelings about the subject matter and context.

Doesn't this thread belong in Movie Talk? You're asking for comment on the movie, this isn't a general religion thread and the general theology is already being/been discussed in several threads on the front page.
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Old 08-16-13, 03:51 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...on-of-the-jew#
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Old 08-16-13, 03:56 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
Doesn't this thread belong in Movie Talk? You're asking for comment on the movie, this isn't a general religion thread and the general theology is already being/been discussed in several threads on the front page.
He's already been told to cease and desist in regards to this film in Movie Talk.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/...christ-10.html
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Old 08-16-13, 03:56 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Wretched torture porn wrapped in piety? No thank you.

And yes, The Last Temptation >>>>>> The Passion. As both a film and as spiritually compelling art.

Also: it sucks.
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Old 08-16-13, 04:01 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I think you're under the mistaken assumption that people care about the movie, and that it's an issue that must be debated.
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Old 08-16-13, 04:08 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by JumpCutz View Post
He's already been told to cease and desist in regards to this film in Movie Talk.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/...christ-10.html


Wow. Well carry on then. At least he has reached his four thread max on the front page here. Is that still a rule? Is it four threads?
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Old 08-16-13, 04:09 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I don't hate it. I don't love it. I thought it was funny that the only thing it shied away from was showing the crow eating the criminal's eye on the cross.

But man, The Last Temptation of Christ is so good. Utterly fascinating. Scorsese really knocked it out of the park on that one. And the score--bless Yahweh!--is one of the best. And, not surprisingly, was ripped off in Passion of the Christ.
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Old 08-16-13, 04:13 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

From a purely cinematic viewpoint I think it's a very bad film. If you want to know why I think so, look up those nine year old threads. I'm not going to rehash a film that was a cultural phenomenon but has got about 50/50 good and bad reviews and has been pretty much forgotten now.

Maybe you should have gone into the movie forum and bumped one of the threads about the movie.
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Old 08-16-13, 04:23 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I strongly believe people only hate "The Passion" for one reason...they're scared of losing control, admitting nothing they do will ever be enough to save them. They try to talk themselves out of what they know is true, hoping against sanity that false ignorance will "win them points" with the Father...but it won't. God is incredibly loving, but He's not soft. Jesus willingly became the embodiment of all sin on that cross, to spare everyone their rightfully just fate. None of us - myself included - are any better than another in God's eyes; He doesn't have favorites.
I have nothing to say here. Everything I tried to say came off as a personal attack no matter how much I rewrote it.
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Old 08-16-13, 04:50 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I strongly believe people only hate "The Passion" for one reason...they're scared of losing control, admitting nothing they do will ever be enough to save them. They try to talk themselves out of what they know is true, hoping against sanity that false ignorance will "win them points" with the Father...but it won't. God is incredibly loving, but He's not soft. Jesus willingly became the embodiment of all sin on that cross, to spare everyone their rightfully just fate. None of us - myself included - are any better than another in God's eyes; He doesn't have favorites.
I am a practicing Christian and I hate (yeah, I'll use that word) The Passion of the Christ for many reasons that have nothing to do with the "only" reason you present. In fact, I don't recall ever thinking such a thing in my life.

The two major reasons I don't like the film are:

1. It appears to lift up one specific atonement theory. It's all about the Ransom theory (and maybe also Christus Victor). As if there aren't 6-8 other legitimate, scholarly, pastoral, widespread atonement theories out there amongst millions of Christians. The multiple appearances by Satan, which are extra-Biblical to all four of the Gospels' narratives of the passion story, goes a long way to hammering this home. Granted, Luke writes that Satan entered Judas in Luke and John but that's half the Gospels and there is no extrapolation on this in the text. Gibson has a specific atonement he wanted to assert as the correct one and that's what he did. I have read opinions that Satan trying to persuade Jesus not to go through with it and screaming out in defeat means it's avoiding this theory yet I think this is playing on the whole "tricking Satan" idea of that theory and the scream is Satan realizing he's been tricked. (That said, I can see it going the other way.) Regardless, the way the story is depicted certainly doesn't seem to affirm many atonement theories beyond Gibson's. And now millions of Christians who would never have given such an atonement credence or who had and explored others and found something different have been handed this and end up thinking all of this is Gospel, cut and dried. And, with respect, it is not.

If people are interested in comparing and contrasting 10 very different atonement theories, I highly recommend Saving Power: Theories of Atonement and Forms of the Church by Peter Schmiechen. He offers a summary of each, lifts up each one's merits and each one's challenges. I LOVE this book. If you're looking for other atonement theories that aren't Ransom, Christus Victor, or Penal Substitution and want to go to a handful of the specific theologians who are lifting these other theories up, read Gustavo Gutierrez and/or Jurgen Moltmann (Liberation), Justification by Grace (Martin Luther, Christ as Goal of Creation (Friedrich Schleiermacher), and Wondrous Love (John Wesley).

2. It is 99% only about the suffering and death of Jesus, not his life nor resurrection. I understand the point of "passion plays" and lifting up the passion narrative is to put the focus squarely on the arrest, suffering, and death of Jesus. I completely understand that's the point of the "passion" and this is, indeed, the title of the film. And yet, is this the point of Jesus? This is a 126-minute film with 0 minutes about the life of Jesus leading up to his arrest and less than 90 seconds devoted to the resurrection (nearly have of which shows the rolling away of the tomb stone).

People tend to focus on or emphasize one of three aspects of Jesus the most: his life, his death, or his resurrection. In my personal experience, conservative Christians focus more on the death of Jesus while liberal Christians focus more on his resurrection and/or life (the "spiritual but not religious" crowd tends to focus on the life of Jesus). There's nothing necessarily wrong with focusing on one more than the other two and yet one cannot forget that with the one, the other two must not be forgotten.

My analogy is this: it's like people want to only attend worship on Palm Sunday (life), Good Friday (death), or Easter Sunday (resurrection). Personally, I think conservative Christians could use a lot less Good Friday and a whole lot more Easter Sunday. Likewise, I think liberal Christians could use more Good Friday to go along with their Easter Sunday. I know that as a liberal Christian who had a "spiritual but not religious" part of my life, I have always focused more on the life of Jesus and in the last few years have been focusing more on the resurrection and I'm trying to take a closer look at his death in my faith. Does that make sense?

To this day - almost ten years later - I still applaud both Caviezel and Gibson for daring to stick with the truth. A few minor extra-Biblical references aside, this movie still touches my heart in ways no other film ever has...or probably will.
These two phrases stand in complete juxtaposition, to me. You strike me as the sort of person who says we get our truth from the Bible and yet there are plenty of non-Biblical things in the film (the many appearances of Satan in this film have nothing to do with the four Gospels' depiction of Jesus' arrest and death, save entering Judas in two of four Gospels and those two mentions alone) so how does the film "stick with the truth" if it also deviates from it intro tradition - tradition which for some is orthodox but for many is very, very unorthodox? I don't discount that this film touches your heart; that's awesome. I just don't understand how those two statements go together. After all, wasn't there some guy who once asked, "What is truth?"

I was living in Cheyenne, WY when this came out and the theater was packed for days. Everybody saw this over and over. I saw it once with a co-worker who balled her eyes out the whole time. I got teary maybe once. Then I saw the ending and I got angry for the exact two reasons I just lifted up. And I was the only one I knew who felt this way for the remainder of the time I lived there. When I moved back to Minnesota and found myself in a more pluralistic population regarding Christianity, I found I wasn't alone.

I've seen it since then, a few times, including on Netflix at least once this year. And so I can add that, all the above said, that "baby" thing that Satan walks around with in the film is wonderfully creepy!

Last edited by story; 08-16-13 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 08-16-13, 05:15 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
I have nothing to say here. Everything I tried to say came off as a personal attack no matter how much I rewrote it.
Agreed. There is no debate to be had when the person trying to initiate it openly admits that he views the people who disagree with him in such a fundamentally incorrect way. There's no middle ground to be reached. Whatever is said will be viewed as coming from his caricature of others, rather than the way those people actually are.
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Old 08-16-13, 05:28 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I disliked Gibson's direction. The choice of using aramaic immediately set up expectations of realism, but then Gibson threw in a crazy amount of fancy camera tricks and slomo-fast-slomo crap that would have seemed excessive even in a lethal weapon flick. POTC is an absolute mess of clashing styles.

Then there's the torture porn. It really is porn in the sense that there is hardly any plot in the film at all, just torture. Anyone who didn't know the story already would be totally lost. Gibson really didn't pass up a single chance for gore here. He wallows in it! I'm the sort who empathizes a little too easily with on-screen characters. I don't like watching comedies that focus on embarrassing the protagonist, so you can imagine how I felt watching Romans tear chunks of flesh out of Caviezel's latex suit for the better part of an hour! Gibson's portrayal of Satan was just... weird. It was almost comic relief, but not quite. Is there such a thing as WTF relief?

I can see how the devote might like watching this flick. It's so excruciatingly painful to watch on every level that it's like doing penance! Thankyou Mel Gibson for rendering self-flagellation obsolete!
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Old 08-16-13, 05:32 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I strongly believe people only hate "The Passion" for one reason...they're scared of losing control, admitting nothing they do will ever be enough to save them. They try to talk themselves out of what they know is true, hoping against sanity that false ignorance will "win them points" with the Father...but it won't.
I strongly believe that the only reason you are so vehement about Christianity is because you know that Hinduism is the one true religion, but you are scared of moving away from what you have been taught. You cling to religiosity in the hope that you will "win points" with the great god Ganesh...but you're not.

See how easy it is to be wrong?
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Old 08-16-13, 05:43 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

It's almost sad how bad his arguments are... and he's so proud of them. If it turns out that our debating, snarking, and counter arguing is actually against someone who is mentally ill, or under medication / supervision I'm going to end up feeling pretty bad. Like yelling "RETARD" at a bus that cuts you off only to find it is filled with Special Olympics kids. Or obliterating someone in an online game repeatedly only to find out later it's a 9 year old kid.
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Old 08-16-13, 05:47 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

What a timely question.
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Old 08-16-13, 05:47 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I never saw it. I'm a little uncomfortable with Gibson's weird interest in being tortured on film (Lethal Weapon, Braveheart, probably others), so when I read reviews of this movie, it sounded like more of the same, and in a story where I didn't really want that to be the primary focus.
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Old 08-16-13, 05:55 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I love when people try to make comparisons between films just because they have one or a few things in common.

TLTOC and POC are two completely different films - Personally, they shouldn't be compared...AT ALL. To be honest, I love both of them equally and definitely love the cinematography in POC much more.

And if you ever do go back to POC for another viewing....there is more to it then you think. I feel Gibson did a smart thing to include the flashbacks during all the violence. His film was intentionally more singular and I personally think it worked well.
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Old 08-16-13, 06:03 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
A few minor extra-Biblical references aside...
Actually, there's a lot because Gibson based much of his film on the "visions" of a deluded nun. There's really no denying this because Mel admitted it.

Here's all the fun:

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROU...SUS_CHRIST.htm
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Old 08-16-13, 06:13 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

I thought it was sanctimonious nonsense cynically designed to introduce Catholic guilt to the evangelicals.

An this is how it should have ended:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/L2Wx230gYJw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 08-16-13, 06:46 PM
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Re: Why Do So Many Hate "The Passion of the Christ"?

Only group I've known to hate this movie is liberal Hollywood & media.
Quentin Tarintino makes a violent movie and the press is all rave reviews.
POTC comes out and the press says it's too violent for young people.
Now on to Hollwood. POTC didn't get much nods or wins come Oscar time did it.
I have the answer to why this is.
I'll post it later. I want to see if anybody here knows and to read the try to be funny smart ass replies.
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