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Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Old 08-12-13, 12:34 PM
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Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Bravo to the people of Alabama for showing that they are tired of taking crap from this atheist organization, Freedom From Religion Foundation.




An estimated combined total of 5,000 people met to pray at all 29 Cullman County School District campuses in Alabama to participate in a prayer caravan Saturday. Hundreds more gathered for a prayer rally at the county fairgrounds in the evening. Spurred on by the threat of legal action from a Wisconsin-based atheists group citing "separation of church and state" to stop the event, the third annual caravan attracted as many as 1,000 people at one high school.
"The great state of Alabama is blessed to have been targeted by the Freedom From Religion Foundation," rally organizer Brent McDonald told The Christian Post Sunday. "By them doing so, it has sparked an awakening like no other and Christians are coming together and standing as one. Thank you FFRF and may every single one of you see God through this."
What may have become an awakening, started as a controversy when the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a group focused on wiping out expressions of religion from the public square in the U.S., threatened Cullman County schools and Superintendent Billy Coleman with a letter from its lawyer.

Coleman, who helped organize the caravan, received the complaint from the FFRF for his involvement in the event. His sponsorship, which he and his lawyer say is his right as a private citizen, previously included an announcement on the district's website, which was later taken down.
Speaking as a private citizen, Coleman held a press conference last Tuesday in which he said, "Christians have the same rights as anyone else to publicly express our beliefs on our own time, and to be afforded the same access to announcement channels as anyone else."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/al...-other-102049/

It's sad and disgusting that groups like this have twisted separation of church and state to meet an agenda where Christians must hide and not dare publically display their Christian beliefs.


I looked up this organization's website, and despite their claim that they simply want to uphold the law, they spell out their true desire:

"The history of Western civilization shows us that most social and moral progress has been brought about by persons free from religion."

Translation - They want a society that is completely God-less.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:39 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Somehow I read this thread title as "Alabama Fights Black Atheist Injustice." That was the hook for me. Well you got me to click anyway.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:42 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

I know they all got moved here but we really need a religion only sub forum. If it's a case for space maybe let them anex the book forum.
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Old 08-12-13, 01:35 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
I know they all got moved here but we really need a religion only sub forum. If it's a case for space maybe let them anex the book forum.
Every other thread in this forum is just a bunch of posters repeating their unshakable beliefs about the nature of the world and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Why not move religion here too?
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Old 08-12-13, 01:38 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bravo to the people of Alabama for showing that they are tired of taking crap from this atheist organization, Freedom From Religion Foundation.
You mean a small minority of the 80,000 people living in the county?

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
It's sad and disgusting that groups like this have twisted separation of church and state to meet an agenda where Christians must hide and not dare publically display their Christian beliefs.
"Freedom from Religion" is not limited to Christianity. Stop making it exclusively about Christianity. It is hilarious that you say "Christians must hide" - did you laugh when you wrote that? The truth is that public schools have no charge to expose my child to their belief system while in public school.
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Old 08-12-13, 01:39 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

I'm certain that Christian Post probably isn't telling the whole story. I'll say this, if people are getting together and praying on their own time, whatever, I don't care. If the school is SPONSORING those prayer sessions, that could be a problem.
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Old 08-12-13, 01:43 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post

It's sad and disgusting that groups like this have twisted separation of church and state to meet an agenda where Christians must hide and not dare publically display their Christian beliefs.

I looked up this organization's website, and despite their claim that they simply want to uphold the law, they spell out their true desire:

"The history of Western civilization shows us that most social and moral progress has been brought about by persons free from religion."

Translation - They want a society that is completely God-less.
No, they want a society that is God-neutral...as in your God isn't better or more valid than anyone else's. The easiest way to do that is to remove ALL religious material from the government. Then no one religion is favored.

Why do you think Christianity deserves such prominent placement?
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Old 08-12-13, 02:16 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
No, they want a society that is God-neutral...as in your God isn't better or more valid than anyone else's. The easiest way to do that is to remove ALL religious material from the government. Then no one religion is favored.

Why do you think Christianity deserves such prominent placement?

They say right there in that quote how a society would be better WITHOUT ANY religion. As long as the government has to rule on moral issues, you can't have religious beliefs completely isolated from government.


And it is simply wrong to deny people their rights to pray in public, regardless of the location.
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Old 08-12-13, 02:28 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
They say right there in that quote how a society would be better WITHOUT ANY religion. As long as the government has to rule on moral issues, you can't have religious beliefs completely isolated from government.
Religion is not a requirement for morality. "Does this hurt another person?" is enough of a basis for a vast majority of our rules.

And it is simply wrong to deny people their rights to pray in public, regardless of the location.
Again, why does Christianity get preferential treatment? Or are you okay with the Church of Satan and Scientology praying in the public courthouse right next to your Christian organization?
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Old 08-12-13, 02:32 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

If the Cullman County School District is sponsoring it, then he's there is a violation of separation of church and state. Why you need the government to sponsor your prayers, or to tell you when and where to pray is baffling to me.
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Old 08-12-13, 02:55 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Everyone screams about their right for prayer in public schools... until the first person unrolls a sajada or whips our their tzitzit. Then the topic shifts to the evils of multiculturalism...
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Old 08-12-13, 03:01 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Everyone screams about their right for prayer in public schools... until the first person unrolls a sajada or whips our their tzitzit. Then the topic shifts to the evils of multiculturalism...
Duh, Christianity is the only TRUE religion in America. Those that pray to whatever it is they pray to are stinkin' heathens.


Amirite?


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Old 08-12-13, 03:01 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...te-separation/

Cullman County School District in Alabama Is the Site of Even More Violations of Church/State Separation
July 31, 2013 By Hemant Mehta 55 Comments

Just the other day, I posted about a “prayer caravan” organized by Cullman County Schools (Alabama) Superintendent Billy Coleman. The idea was that he would lead a group of people to all the schools in the district and pray… becauseI guess that raises test scores in Alabama or something. They’ve been doing this for a few years running.

Superintendent Billy Coleman

We also learned from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (PDF) that the caravan wasn’t the school’s only violation of the law:

We were also informed that schools in the Cullman County system recite the Lord’s Prayer over the loudspeaker each morning. We understand that an attempt to mask this illegal practice is made by giving students “the option” to participate.

So why bring this all up again?

Because FFRF has learned that they’ve only hit the tip of the iceberg when it comes to violations of church/state separation in the district:

FFRF has received reports from at least seven local families about additional violations in area schools, mostly regarding unconstitutional prayers. FFRF has been informed the district schools lead recitations of the Lord’s prayer during the school day including over the loudspeaker system, have teacher-led prayer before lunch, at graduation ceremonies and according to one student “every school event… starts with a prayer.”

Cullman Country Schools often hold school events in churches rather than schools themselves. Coleman frequently schedules a student investment dinner and school meetings at various churches around the area.

The most disturbing information FFRF received regards West Point Elementary School. Every Tuesday, according to a complainant a preacher visits to proselytize. Teachers reportedly have told student their teachers “would be disappointed” if students chose not to listen to the preacher.

Now that people are learning that FFRF is looking at the district, they’re starting to come forward with even more damning pieces of information.

There’s no lawsuit yet, because that’s always a last resort. First, FFRF has requested a response from Coleman by next week. I can’t wait to hear how he tries to explain and get out of all this shit he’s dragged the district into…
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...art-of-school/

Last week, we learned that Cullman County Schools (Alabama) Superintendent Billy Coleman was planning his third annual “Prayer Caravan” in which he visits the schools in his district and prays for them. Because I guess that’s the only option left for raising kids’ test scores.

Superintendent Billy Coleman

If he did this as a private citizen, it wouldn’t be a problem.

But that’s not the case at all. An announcement of the Caravan was posted on the school’s website:

It will be a time to lift out schools up to God and ask His blessings for the upcoming school year. We hope to see you on August 10th.

In Christ, Billy Coleman

It was posted on the district’s Facebook page, too.

After the Freedom From Religion Foundation sent Coleman a letter (PDF) telling him to put a stop to the proselytizing, the district removed all of those references, but that doesn’t change the fact that they were there.

Yesterday, Coleman held a press conference to talk about the controversy:

You can read a full transcript here.

At the 18:22 mark, during the Q&A session, Coleman remarked:

“I think that what people may not realize in this country is prayer is very much a part of school.”

He went on to say that the prayers had to occur within the confines of the law, and that he respected church/state separation, but his actions clearly show otherwise. He seems like a decent guy trying to do the right thing in the video, but he just doesn’t get it.

So what about the Caravan? Will that still go on this Saturday as planned?

Absolutely, Coleman said:

“It’s going on,” Coleman said. “I’m certainly not going to call it off.”

He emphasized that the event is privately organized and not sponsored by the Cullman County School system, despite his involvement.

That’s a complete lie. If it was privately organized, the school never would have promoted it on their website or social media networks.

Coleman isn’t organizing and promoting this event as “Billy Coleman, Random Citizen.” He’s organizing it as “Billy Coleman, Superintendent.”

Here’s something I received from a reader yesterday: A flyer endorsing the event:

Even though whoever made the flyer is obviously aware of FFRF’s complaint, s/he still promotes it as Superintendent Billy Coleman’s event.

Any reasonable person looking at all of this evidence would conclude that this is a school-sponsored event.

Judges will recognize that, too.

In order to get a lawsuit going, though, we need a plaintiff. If anyone reading this has a child in the district and is willing to stand up to this breach of church/state separation, please contact me.

Remember: This would have been a non-issue if Coleman didn’t use school resources to promote the religious event. But he doesn’t give a damn what the law says because he thinks his religion can supersede all of that.

Don’t let him get away with it.
Follow the links to see the videos, pictures, etc. that are mentioned.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:09 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
If the Cullman County School District is sponsoring it, then he's there is a violation of separation of church and state. Why you need the government to sponsor your prayers, or to tell you when and where to pray is baffling to me.
It's all location, location, location. To indoctrinate children, you have to get to them in the one place where they are all required to be...school.

No indoctrination of children and the future of Christianity is in jeopardy (it appears that most Christians believe this or they would not make such a big deal about it). Teach your own kids what ever gobbly-gook you want them to believe and leave the others alone to their personal gobbly-gook.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:11 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bravo to the people of Alabama for showing that they are tired of taking crap from this atheist organization, Freedom From Religion Foundation.
I donate regularly to FFRF, and have been for years.
I'm guessing I'm not going to agree with you....

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Translation - They want a society that is completely God-less.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:18 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Wow, you mean a outrageous story posted by a biased person, using a biased source, was later shown to be comically less-then-truthful or forthcoming with the real story by a simple Google search?

Dvdjunkie32 did a Grundle. Congrats! I think we're supposed to get you a cake or something.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:21 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Translation - They want a society that is completely God-less.
Because Christianity is naturally the only religion that would matter.

You twist shit constantly to meet your agenda. How are you going to criticize this group??
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Old 08-12-13, 03:26 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Translation - They want a society that is completely God-less.
Actually, no. An "atheist" as you define one would want a society without religion and religious people. This atheist would already believe that society was God-less - because God is a made-up construct.

This bit of logic is a sticking point in the whole "where does morality come from?" debate. A religious person may say, well, if you don't follow the teachings of God, then where does your morality come from? Because that's the source of morality, right? Without it we're all just beasts who figured out the concept of pants?

This question is built on the first premises that God is real and "he" has an established moral code.

Atheists don't share these first premises. An atheist could simply respond: "My morality comes from the same place as yours. Thousands of years of human and societal development. It's a fundamental set of lessons passed down to help us all live together in as much peace as possible. Don't murder. Don't steal. Don't lie. This is what I follow. I just don't care that a millenia ago some people wrote these lessons down and attributed them to a God."

Last edited by uberjoe; 08-12-13 at 03:28 PM. Reason: I really can't type well today.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:37 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Why is this forum 99% anti-Christian??
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Old 08-12-13, 03:39 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Why is this forum 99% anti-Christian??




Believe what you want to believe (or not) and just deal with it.
Not everyone is going to agree with you. Nor will they all agree with me. Or anyone else here.

Last edited by Pointyskull; 08-12-13 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 08-12-13, 03:48 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by Spiderbite View Post
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...te-separation/



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...art-of-school/



Follow the links to see the videos, pictures, etc. that are mentioned.
He is doing it as a private citizen. Just because the prayer group happens to be physically located on school grounds doesn't mean they are violating the law. Separation of church and state means the government can not force citizens to follow a particular religion. That's it. It does not guarantee you the right to be free from ANY public exposure to religion.

Even the governor of Alabama is against this group's charge:


The Freedom From Religion Foundation claimed the event would violate the separation between church and state. During an event in Decatur Thursday, Governor Robert Bentley said he supports the Cullman County Schools Superintendent, and supports the prayer caravan.
http://www.myfoxal.com/story/2308765...prayer-caravan
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Old 08-12-13, 03:57 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Wow, you mean a outrageous story posted by a biased person, using a biased source, was later shown to be comically less-then-truthful or forthcoming with the real story by a simple Google search?

Dvdjunkie32 did a Grundle. Congrats! I think we're supposed to get you a cake or something.
How about a google search from a non-biased source? It reveals this:



Coleman said he is not aware of any organized effort to recite the Lord’s Prayer, and has never heard it done over the intercom in his three years as superintendent. Every school handles morning announcements differently, Coleman said, with some holding a moment of silence.

“I go visit the schools all the time, and many times I’m at school when school starts,” he said. “I can say that many times I’ve heard the moment of silence, and the Pledge of Allegiance. Regardless, we as a system always want to do what’s right, and if anyone is being forced to do anything they don’t agree with we’ll certainly act accordingly.”


http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/x1...prayer-caravan


And what is so outrageous about local citizens organizing and showing that they don't like some anti-religious group hundreds of miles away in WI telling them how to live their lives?
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Old 08-12-13, 04:03 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
How about a google search from a non-biased source? It reveals this:




http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/x1...prayer-caravan


And what is so outrageous about local citizens organizing and showing that they don't like some anti-religious group hundreds of miles away in WI telling them how to live their lives?
You can't do that shit in the name of the school. The Superintendent is using his post as a selling point.
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Old 08-12-13, 04:06 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
How about a google search from a non-biased source? It reveals this:




http://www.cullmantimes.com/local/x1...prayer-caravan


And what is so outrageous about local citizens organizing and showing that they don't like some anti-religious group hundreds of miles away in WI telling them how to live their lives?
Umm... you got a quote from Coleman. That is the single most biased source there is, seeing as it is Coleman's event.

And you can't say this is not mixing Church & State. Here is a quote from the Governor you just mentioned saying that the mix is intentional:

Gov. Robert Bentley visited Cullman on Thursday and voiced support for the prayer caravan.

“I personally believe that one of the problems we have in this country is taking God out of, not only our lives, but out of government. But we can’t force that on someone. That’s what the Constitution says. … But people have the right to express their opinions on their beliefs. And I do it all the time. Nobody’s put me in jail yet,” Bentley said.
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Old 08-12-13, 04:15 PM
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Re: Alabama Fights Back Against Atheist Injustice

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Religion is not a requirement for morality. "Does this hurt another person?" is enough of a basis for a vast majority of our rules.
You must live in a black and white world. Moral issues are a lot more complicated.



Originally Posted by Draven View Post

Again, why does Christianity get preferential treatment? Or are you okay with the Church of Satan and Scientology praying in the public courthouse right next to your Christian organization?
Well in the interest of keeping peace in public, that wouldn'' be a good idea, but I support the freedom of any religion to speak out in public or display public memorials.
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