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Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Old 08-05-13, 09:06 AM
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Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Let me preface this topic by saying that if I have personally offended anyone in this forum, I sincerely apologize. That was never my intention. From my perspective, I fire off snark back in return so you can get any idea of what it feels like on my end. My true desire is for a civil discussion, but for some reason, the thread quickly comes off the rails, ends up an ugly hot mess that doesn't quit until I finally stop posting. However, someone mentioned yesterday that I constantly insult people and that bothered me. I need to stop firing off from the hip and do some self-examination. However, one thing I won't apologize is for my religious beliefs, and if that offends you, that's your problem.

With that said, I came across an article this morning that blew me away by explaining why these threads take an ugly turn. I believe the vast majority of people I encountered in these forums are not atheists, but hatetheists. They don't have a sincere desire to have their questions answered. Hatetheists enjoy picking fights with Christians and mocking them.

Here is an accurate description of a hatetheist:



Whereas the atheist is respectful during a conversation or interaction, the hatetheist – either immediately or very soon – descends into ad hominem attacks and disrespectful name calling. The names used many times completely mischaracterize a Christian’s true position (e.g. “flat-earther”). Sometimes, the hatetheist will go so far as to say that anyone who believes in God is clinically crazy or insane.

In addition to attacking a Christian’s intelligence or character, the hatetheist routinely tosses out derogatory names or references to God (e.g. “invisible sky fairy”) and Jesus (a “Jewish zombie” or “Bejebus”). The atheist, however, typically does not refer to God or Jesus in such ways.

Hatetheists tend to be inordinately arrogant and border on narcissism when it comes to their perception of their own intelligence vs. those who hold to a theistic worldview. An example are hatetheists who label themselves as "The Brights", with the obvious message being anyone who is not an atheist must be dimwitted.

The atheist genuinely considers arguments and presented evidence where the hatetheist does not. The hatetheist either ignores expert testimony, uses numerous red herrings, or charges the Christian with “quote smithing” when various quotes from experts are used to support the theistic position, and never considers any expert testimony. Ironically, many of the same hatetheists who do this maintain web sites with rotating quotes from famous atheists and sport links to other atheist sites that contain quotable information. But the bottom line is there is a “willing unbelief” in the hatetheist that will not entertain a position that is contrary to their own.

The atheist actively engages in critical questions put to them about their worldview and responds, whereas the hatetheist ignores questions that challenge their position and does not take them seriously.

The atheist adheres to science, but understands and recognizes its limits, whereas the hatetheist is a devotee of scientism.

The atheist tends to be universal in their critique of any god, but the hatetheist focuses mostly, if not solely, on Christianity. The hatetheist shows no fear in mocking Jesus in graphic ways, but is remarkably restrained where others such as Muhammad of Islam are concerned.

The atheist does not practice historical revisionism where the practice of Christianity is concerned in a country like the U.S. and is perfectly fine with the freedom of religion being practiced. By contrast, the hatetheist tries to rewrite history where the roots of Christianity is concerned and pushes hard for freedom from religion in the hopes of removing it from society altogether.

The atheist’s actions are ones that are secure in that they will not lash out in irrational ways to thoughts of theism. Christianity is not threatening in that way, and they find no need to interject themselves into a Christian’s worship or their special days to interrupt them.

The hatetheist, on the other hand, exhibits very insecure activity such as launching billboard promotional ads during seasons where their worldview is most threatened such as Christmas and Easter.


I would say the vast majority of interactions that I have experience here fall undernearth this umbrella. I try exhaustively to force opponents off this bullet list into a honest discussion, but it fails every time and I wonder why did I even bother?

The article also made me eat some crow here and admit that I have been wrong in the manner of my response to the hatetheist. It also suggests that I just need to walk away:



"However, as I’ve done a little Biblical research in this vein, I’ve reached the current conclusion that the Scriptures seem to warn us away of continued (note the importance of that word) interaction with hatetheists where sharing the gospel is concerned.

Two episodes in the gospels give us Jesus’ take on the matter. First is Christ’s command in the Sermon on the Mount: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces” (Matthew 7:6). Commenting on this passage, John MacArthur in his Study Bible sums up Jesus’ warning in the following way: “This principle governs how one handles the gospel in the face of those who hate the truth.”
http://blogs.christianpost.com/confi...etheist-10298/


Therefore, I have decided to limit my responses only to sincere theological questions. If I see posting of an "hatetheist" manner, I will politely disengage and walk away.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:12 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

I have a link for you too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr_complex
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Old 08-05-13, 09:12 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I need to stop firing off from the hip and do some self-examination.
It takes balls to admit your own faults. I respect that.

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
believe the vast majority of people I encountered in these forums are not atheists, but hatetheists. They don't have a sincere desire to have their questions answered. Hatetheists enjoy picking fights with Christians and mocking them.
In all fairness, it might seem to many that the above statement is just instigating more fights.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:22 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

This place has always been a haven for the anti Christian posters. There is never a time where there isn’t a religion thread on the first page in other or politics, and filled with mocking and self righteousness. It’s always the same posters, thread after thread, year after year, with the same tired comments. And all you do is get though people fired up by opening up these threads and posting all your ignorant comments. I would guess most of the posters here are like me, and just continue to ignore all these repetitive threads. Which I will continue to do.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:26 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

I agree that many on both sides need to stick to topics and not to personalities. Public forums are notorious for snarky and mocking posts, and those who are easily offended should tread lightly (or avoid public forums altogether). There have been some nasty posts in this forum, but I still find DVDTalk to be in the higher echelon re: mutual respect for allowing opposing viewpoints to be posted.

I don't agree with all of the apparently Christian posters here regarding theology or posting styles, but I would remind those claiming to be believers of the Biblical warnings that your views will be despised by the world and that you will sometimes be persecuted for your faith. That is not a claim to a 'martyr complex' (especially since the attacks are usually toward God's views, not yours) and is not an indictment of those who disagree with views of others. Sure, there is a lot of teasing, considerable mocking, and occasional downright nasty, hate-filled comments...but consider where you are. This isn't Sunday School (well, it is supposed to be educational), and a thick skin is helpful when confronting other views. Also, realize that you're in a considerable minority here and that what appears to be "piling on" most likely is just be a reflection of the demographics.

You can be aggressive in defending your views without being aggressive and hostile toward other posters. Likewise, you can let snarky comments slide without taking it so personally (and both sides should allow some retaliatory snark as long as it stays civil). I can despise your views without despising you (despite what some think...that's their problem).

Hoping everyone can stay in the kitchen when it gets hot but keep it together peacefully. Atheists, agnostics, and religious folk can actually get along as long as everyone cooperates and respect each other's rights to hold views (even those they find offensive).

At least, that's what the brochure said.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:29 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
This place has always been a haven for the anti Christian posters. There is never a time where there isnít a religion thread on the first page in other or politics, and filled with mocking and self righteousness. Itís always the same posters, thread after thread, year after year, with the same tired comments. And all you do is get though people fired up by opening up these threads and posting all your ignorant comments. I would guess most of the posters here are like me, and just continue to ignore all these repetitive threads. Which I will continue to do.
Stupid internet giving everyone a voice!
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Old 08-05-13, 09:30 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
This place has always been a haven for the anti Christian posters. There is never a time where there isnít a religion thread on the first page in other or politics, and filled with mocking and self righteousness. Itís always the same posters, thread after thread, year after year, with the same tired comments. And all you do is get though people fired up by opening up these threads and posting all your ignorant comments. I would guess most of the posters here are like me, and just continue to ignore all these repetitive threads. Which I will continue to do.
So you're saying that religion and politics don't make good dinner conversation?
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Old 08-05-13, 09:31 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
Stupid internet giving everyone a voice!
Amen to that!
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Old 08-05-13, 09:32 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Hatetheist.

I'm a proud member of the apatheist club. I just don't care.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:41 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
Stupid internet giving everyone a voice!
Glad the internet was finally able to provide you with a way to communicate.

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Old 08-05-13, 09:41 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

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Old 08-05-13, 09:42 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
So you're saying that religion and politics don't make good dinner conversation?
Ha. They certainly make better dinner conversations than internet conversations.
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Old 08-05-13, 09:43 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

It seems to me that many of the pro-Christian posts on here are the internet forum version of standing on a street corner with a Bible in hand yelling "you are all going to hell" to anyone who passes by. These interjections tend to not be responsive to the particular post/thread but are merely a way to interject beliefs and proselytize in as many threads as possible. That is not going to be received very well by many.

On the other hand, sometimes posters are responding to the thread and staying on topic, interjecting their religious opinions/beliefs appropriately, in a non-hostile way, and much grief is still heaped upon them. They shouldn't be expected to "check their Christian beliefs at the door" before coming on here.

As there are some posters who give Christians a bad name on here with their approach to stating what they believe, there are also plenty on the other side who become total assholes when the word "God" is mentioned.
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Old 08-05-13, 10:19 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I believe the vast majority of people I encountered in these forums are not atheists, but hatetheists. They don't have a sincere desire to have their questions answered.
If there is an afterlife, you're going to be one eternally lonely motherfucker.
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Old 08-05-13, 10:32 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

I'll never under why people need to validate their faith against the acceptance of the masses.
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Old 08-05-13, 10:39 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

I think the issue here is that your beliefs just aren't that important to atheists. We're just having a laugh on a web forum, whereas you feel you are sharing and grappling with a core aspect of your identity. You should try and take it less personally, or just stop posting this stuff.

Honestly though, I don't think many of your regular challengers meet the definition of 'hatetheist' as described in that article. I don't think there are any 'devotees of scientism' (whatever that means) on this forum, so much as many of us are just amused by the extent to which some posters are making up 'science' to support their religious beliefs while they ignore any real science that might challenge their views. I mean the ark stuff was truly comical, but was ultimately a debate about science, not Christianity. People may criticize you for your attitudes about homosexuals, but that is different than criticizing Christianity. Kvrdave is a Christian and is open about that, but you'll find he is not treated the way some other posters here are. It should be obvious why.

Atheism is simply the lack of a belief in gods, and carries with it no other implications about the belief system of any particular atheist. I am personally frustrated by the sort of atheists described in OP's post, the kind you might find on r/atheism or that Minnesota professor's blog whose name I can't remember right now, who make their lack of belief a sort of religion in it's own right - but I honestly don't see any of them in this forum.
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Old 08-05-13, 10:44 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

There's a scene in the Simpsons where Lisa joins the football team, defiantly stating "That's right...a girl playing football! Anybody have a problem with that?" When she realizes that nobody has a problem with it, and in fact, the team already has girls playing on it, she leaves immediately.

That's what I think of when I see certain belligerent "personalities" on the Internet. These folks have been with us since the beginning, and they frequently jump into conversations with some variant of "I'm black/gay/Christian/Atheist/Vegan/purple/Etc and if anybody has a problem with that they're just going to have to deal with it!"

Most of the time, people don't have a problem with it. Like Lisa Simpson, this is upsetting to the Belligerent Personality so they have to step up their game. They constantly act like a complete jerk while simultaneous reminding everybody that they're purple. When they get the expected negative reaction, the persecution complex sets in "Don't be a hater just because I'm purple!"

Bottom line: if you post like a jerk, expect to be treated like a jerk. Doesn't matter if your purple or not.
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Old 08-05-13, 10:53 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Doesn't matter if your purple or not.
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Old 08-05-13, 11:00 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

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Old 08-05-13, 11:25 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Hatetheist, not theister.
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Old 08-05-13, 11:27 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
There's a scene in the Simpsons where Lisa joins the football team, defiantly stating "That's right...a girl playing football! Anybody have a problem with that?" When she realizes that nobody has a problem with it, and in fact, the team already has girls playing on it, she leaves immediately.

That's what I think of when I see certain belligerent "personalities" on the Internet. These folks have been with us since the beginning, and they frequently jump into conversations with some variant of "I'm black/gay/Christian/Atheist/Vegan/purple/Etc and if anybody has a problem with that they're just going to have to deal with it!"

Most of the time, people don't have a problem with it. Like Lisa Simpson, this is upsetting to the Belligerent Personality so they have to step up their game. They constantly act like a complete jerk while simultaneous reminding everybody that they're purple. When they get the expected negative reaction, the persecution complex sets in "Don't be a hater just because I'm purple!"

Bottom line: if you post like a jerk, expect to be treated like a jerk. Doesn't matter if your purple or not.
So what you're saying is that these Belligerent Personalities just have to say, "I'm a jerk and if anybody has a problem with that they're just going to have to deal with it," to get what they want?
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Old 08-05-13, 11:28 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
With that said, I came across an article this morning that blew me away by explaining why these threads take an ugly turn. I believe the vast majority of people I encountered in these forums are not atheists, but hatetheists. They don't have a sincere desire to have their questions answered. Hatetheists enjoy picking fights with Christians and mocking them.
This is not a great start.

Here's a far simpler explanation: some people simply disagree with you. And since this is a discussion forum, they discuss it.

You are obsessed with labels. Not everything needs a name. You assign a level of "hate" that is simply not there. You act like you're persecuted (hence the constant martyr complex posts) when in reality, no one actually cares what you do with your life. Speaking for myself, I'm indifferent because you've yet to say anything I haven't heard a million times before. And I disagreed with what was said every single time. You are just a new person to talk to while I kill time between projects at work.

Sometimes it's just people having a discussion.

Also, I have to call this out:

The hatetheist, on the other hand, exhibits very insecure activity such as launching billboard promotional ads during seasons where their worldview is most threatened such as Christmas and Easter.
This author has obviously never driven through Missouri around Christmas time (something I've done nearly every year of my life) and seen the "Jesus is the reason for the season!" billboards every five minutes along the road. Who is insecure again?
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Old 08-05-13, 11:32 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I try exhaustively to force opponents off this bullet list into a honest discussion, but it fails every time and I wonder why did I even bother?
Maybe you should realize that other people might not wish to discuss this topic with you and that you should refrain from broaching this topic to them. I have my beliefs and they are not in some cloud God creature that has created everyone and everything and is so kind that unless we follow his rules and believe in him we are doomed to eternity in a fiery pit. For anyone to believe that some superior being created them and is watching them all the time and guiding them is deluded to say the least. I mean, what balls it takes to believe that some All Mighty Being created you (feel free to insert joke about Gods balls...).

I feel the same about these threads as i do about bible bashers coming knocking on my door....i just wish they would go away and keep their religious beliefs to themselves. I made up my mind a long time ago and no one and nothing will ever change it. I don't go around to religious peoples houses and ask them if they had ever thought about how there is no god and the fact that we each control our own destinies. Isn't there an infinite number of religious websites that you could take these topics up on instead?
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Old 08-05-13, 11:32 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

I'm not sure how calling people hatetheists is clearing the air.
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Old 08-05-13, 11:34 AM
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Re: Let Me Clear the Air on Christian Topics Here

Originally Posted by Draven View Post

You are obsessed with labels. Not everything needs a name.
Especially not one as stupid sounding as hatetheist. But this is the internet - where the English language is repeatedly pummeled.
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