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Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Old 07-18-13, 03:26 PM
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Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/823dd1e2-e...44feabdc0.html

Kind of a big deal considering the importance Detroit once had for the nation. Anyone think that Detroit can ever be a functioning city again?

Detroit filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy on Thursday, in the largest such action by a US city.

The filing came in the face of a lack of progress restructuring about $11bn of the city’s $18bn in debt from unsecured creditors.

Detroit is being watched for clues on how a heavily indebted municipality can regain its financial footing.

The city is near the statutory limits of its ability to tax. That power has been sapped by a drop in the city’s population – down 60 per cent from almost 2m at the peak in the 1950s to just under 700,000 – leading to a 40 per cent drop in tax revenues since 2000. The city has had to borrow money to meet its operating budget which has been slashed.
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Old 07-18-13, 03:45 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Wow. Saw a Yahoo article that eminem was slated to play some movie role, but said he would only do it if they shot the thing in Detroit. Matt Damon now has the role.
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Old 07-18-13, 03:57 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

http://www.commonwealthofbelleisle.com/


At this point, why not? If the city is this broken, it's going to take some outside the box thinking to fix it. Why not use this opportunity for an experiment? And if you're convinced that this type of experiment will be a colossal failure, why not give them the opportunity to prove it's the wrong idea?
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Old 07-18-13, 04:47 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

It's time for OCP to come in and build New Detroit. And ED-209. And Robocop.
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Old 07-18-13, 05:21 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Looking at some comparisons between 1950 and 2010.

In 1950, Detroit was 83.6% white and 16.2% black.
In 1950, America was about 89% white and 9% black (I don't think Hispanics were counted then).
So Detroit was a little more "diverse" than the country as a whole.

In 2010, Detroit was 82.7% black and 10.6% white.

In 1950, there were 1.8 million people in Detroit, about 1.5 million whites and about 300,000 blacks.
In 2010, there were about 700,000 people, about 75,000 whites and about 575,000 blacks.

And from 1950 to 2010, the United States as a whole slightly more doubled in size (150 million to 309 million) and from 1950 to 2010, the number of black Detroiters slightly less than doubled in size.

So, from 1950 to 2010, the number of blacks in Detroit roughly mirrored the population growth of the nation as a whole. While the number of whites in Detroit decreased by almost 95%.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:02 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Looking at some comparisons between 1950 and 2010.

In 1950, Detroit was 83.6% white and 16.2% black.
In 1950, America was about 89% white and 9% black (I don't think Hispanics were counted then).
So Detroit was a little more "diverse" than the country as a whole.

In 2010, Detroit was 82.7% black and 10.6% white.

In 1950, there were 1.8 million people in Detroit, about 1.5 million whites and about 300,000 blacks.
In 2010, there were about 700,000 people, about 75,000 whites and about 575,000 blacks.

And from 1950 to 2010, the United States as a whole slightly more doubled in size (150 million to 309 million) and from 1950 to 2010, the number of black Detroiters slightly less than doubled in size.

So, from 1950 to 2010, the number of blacks in Detroit roughly mirrored the population growth of the nation as a whole. While the number of whites in Detroit decreased by almost 95%.
So, the problem is too many black people? Cause that's about all one can deduce from these particular statistics.

That seems a little, uh, help me out here, what's the word I'm looking for?
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Old 07-18-13, 06:10 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
So, the problem is too many black people? Cause that's about all one can deduce from these particular statistics.
You could deduce that Detroit has problems because 95% of the white people left.

You could also deduce that 95% of the white people have left because Detroit has problems.

But only one of those deductions means you can call someone else a racist. Why am I not surprised at which one you chose?
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Old 07-18-13, 06:16 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
So, the problem is too many black people? Cause that's about all one can deduce from these particular statistics.
He said in there what the problem is, and it's not "too many" anything. (I take that back: maybe too much crime, too much murdering, too much arson, too much unemployment, etc.) Anyway, like he said, Detroit has shed 60% of its population over the past six decades. Significantly smaller tax base, deindustrialization, massive unemployment... That doesn't add up to a healthy city.

I think losing 95% of a particular demographic (race, age, gender, etc.) in a once-thriving city is worth discussing.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:31 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

To me, there's one statistic at the root of racial disparity in the US:

Out of wedlock births:

Asian: 17%
White: 29%
Hispanic: 53%
Black: 72%

But, for many people and groups in this country (with various ideological prejudices), this is a subject that can't be discussed openly----or really even considered as an important subject TO be discussed. For them, these statistics have to be dismissed as minor symptoms rather than major causes.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf
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Old 07-18-13, 06:52 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

White people got scared. I blame this guy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/VUACDPbC_4A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Damn, I love him.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:58 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
So, the problem is too many black people? Cause that's about all one can deduce from these particular statistics.

That seems a little, uh, help me out here, what's the word I'm looking for?
You seem to be implying that statistics are racist. Perhaps the DOJ should look into charging statistics with a hate crime.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:02 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
I think losing 95% of a particular demographic (race, age, gender, etc.) in a once-thriving city is worth discussing.
exactly. It's not like this is a town of 100 people that became a ghost town. Detroit was once the 4th largest city in the country. In only 60 years, 95% of a specific demographic just packed up and moved away. that's just crazy.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:02 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
You seem to be implying that statistics are racist. Perhaps the DOJ should look into charging statistics with a hate crime.
Now you're just being silly. You can't charge "statistics" with a hate crime.

Obviously, you would charge the people REPORTING the statistics with the hate crime.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:04 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
http://www.commonwealthofbelleisle.com/


At this point, why not? If the city is this broken, it's going to take some outside the box thinking to fix it. Why not use this opportunity for an experiment? And if you're convinced that this type of experiment will be a colossal failure, why not give them the opportunity to prove it's the wrong idea?
It is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:07 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
It is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.
Why?

Try it and it fails - it's not like Detroit can get much worse. And people that hate libertarianism have a pretty big new tool in their arsenal to criticize libertarianism.
Try it and it succeeds - isn't that good news?
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Old 07-18-13, 07:11 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

An independent city-state surrounded by one of the highest crime cities in the country? Yeah.. that can't be a bad idea...

Ok.. not completely surrounded.. but still...
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Old 07-18-13, 07:12 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

What the hell does he know about Detroit's problems??? He should just stick to Hockey.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:37 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

How is race a meaningful demographic in this context? It might be meaningful in conjunction with other statistics, such as education, income level, and marital status.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:39 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/...ut-of-service/

Mr. Snyder said the city cannot meet obligations to its citizens or its creditors. He noted that citizens wait an average of 58 minutes for the police to respond to their calls, compared to a national average of 11 minutes. Only 8.7% of cases are solved, compared to a statewide average of 30.5%.

About 40% of the city's street lights were not functioning in the first quarter of the year, and only a third of its ambulances were in service. Its population has declined 63% from its peak and there are about 78,000 abandoned structures.
Call the cops, wait an hour. And even if they come, over 90% of the crimes will go unsolved anyway.

Why would anybody in their right mind want to move into Detroit?
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Old 07-18-13, 08:11 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How is race a meaningful demographic in this context? It might be meaningful in conjunction with other statistics, such as education, income level, and marital status.
When a city fails, and 95% of whites are able to leave, and blacks stick around (either because they cannot leave or will not leave), this isn't a problem?
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Old 07-18-13, 08:14 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How is race a meaningful demographic in this context?
He tried for the sexual orientation stats, but in 1950 almost everyone in Detroit classified themselves as "mostly gay, occasionally melancholy."
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Old 07-18-13, 08:21 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Why?
This is nothing more than a pie in the sky utopia for the wealthy that want to retain their US citizenship and all the benefits it provides yet really don't want to pay into the system.

If you don't like the system renounce your US citizenship and move to another country.
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Old 07-18-13, 08:23 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
When a city fails, and 95% of whites are able to leave, and blacks stick around (either because they cannot leave or will not leave), this isn't a problem?
I don't think we're disagreeing. I just think it's hard to know what's going on by looking at race alone.
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Old 07-18-13, 08:27 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

That stat makes me wonder what's behind it. I wonder what percentage of those were the autoworkers and their families.
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Old 07-18-13, 08:29 PM
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Re: Orr to Detroit: You're Dead

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
This is nothing more than a pie in the sky utopia for the wealthy that want to retain their US citizenship and all the benefits it provides yet really don't want to pay into the system.

If you don't like the system renounce your US citizenship and move to another country.
What benefits? Sounds like the only "benefit" people would be receiving from the US would be national defense. And would this new city really be a threat to be attacked from foreign countries anyway? You think that Argentina is going to fly through Canada or the United States to bomb Detroit?

Detroit's going to die unless someone can come up with a reason to get people to want to move there. How would you do that?

Tell me what incentives you'd give to people to move into a city where if you call the cops, they won't show up for an hour and can only solve less than 10% of the crimes.
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