Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events
Reload this Page >

Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Old 07-08-13, 09:48 AM
  #201  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CALI!
Posts: 6,972
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post

The simplest test that I can think of, that has been brought up by others many times, is the simple question "When did you choose to be heterosexual?" If you cannot recall the instance that you did so, then why is it any different for a homosexual person?
No one "chooses" to be heterosexual or homosexual. Homosexuality is a mental illness that affects the natural attraction of man to woman and woman to man. No one chooses to be ill, just like no one chooses to be schizophrenic or bipolar. The only choice homosexuals make is to shove their sexual preference down everyone's throats and try to portray their illness as normal.
Arpeggi is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 09:55 AM
  #202  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
No one "chooses" to be heterosexual or homosexual. Homosexuality is a mental illness that affects the natural attraction of man to woman and woman to man.
Repeating an assertion doesn't make it true. Please provide one -- just one -- peer-reviewed article from a reliable scientific journal that claims homosexuality is a mental illness.
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 10:20 AM
  #203  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CALI!
Posts: 6,972
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Repeating an assertion doesn't make it true. Please provide one -- just one -- peer-reviewed article from a reliable scientific journal that claims homosexuality is a mental illness.
Considering psychology is a pseudo science I can't provide scientific research for mental illness. But neither can you for other mental disorders like ADHD and Schizophrenia.

Note: I do not want to get into the psychology is bullshit discussion.
Arpeggi is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 10:24 AM
  #204  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,266
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I couldn't agree more.
Not sure what you agree with, but three quick points:

1. A warning against generalisations is jut that, a warning against generalisations. Hence the phrase, such as

2. Perhaps you, and others, are unaware of the Report Post feature. People should use it if they feel it is warranted. This had already been pointed out in this thread.

3. Maybe multiple in-thread warnings and comments that have been made regarding incendiary and disparaging remarks made about gays recently, including again in this thread have been missed. Nothing is being done one sided.


I don't want to derail what is already a bit of a trainwreck of a thread any further, so I will leave it at that.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 10:29 AM
  #205  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,196
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Repeating an assertion doesn't make it true.

Kinda like when atheists keep saying that God is a fictional sky fairy. I suppose it makes them feel good when they say it, but an assertion based on nothing proves nothing.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 10:45 AM
  #206  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
Considering psychology is a pseudo science I can't provide scientific research for mental illness. But neither can you for other mental disorders like ADHD and Schizophrenia.
If that's the case then what objective standard are you using to determine that homosexuality is a mental illness?

Note: I do not want to get into the psychology is bullshit discussion.
That's not how arguments work -- you can't just bring something up to support your position and then declare it off limits for discussion.

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Kinda like when atheists keep saying that God is a fictional sky fairy. I suppose it makes them feel good when they say it, but an assertion based on nothing proves nothing.
You need to learn how the burden of proof works for assertions. Theists are the ones claiming God exists and it is up to them to provide evidence. Atheists don't have to disprove the existence of God anymore than they have to disprove invisible pink elephants -- they only need say, "If you can't provide evidence, it's just an irrational belief."
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 10:46 AM
  #207  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 31,287
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Kinda like when atheists keep saying that God is a fictional sky fairy. I suppose it makes them feel good when they say it, but an assertion based on nothing proves nothing.
I realize you take this very personally but yes, there really is no evidence that an omnipotent being is living in the sky above us. At least, none that's stronger than what any other religion believes and you discount all of those just like you discount atheism.
Draven is online now  
Old 07-08-13, 11:40 AM
  #208  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,196
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I realize you take this very personally but yes, there really is no evidence that an omnipotent being is living in the sky above us. At least, none that's stronger than what any other religion believes and you discount all of those just like you discount atheism.
And that depends on completely what your qualifications are for accepted evidence. Funny, atheists won't establish those parameters because they don't want to be backed into a corner and forced to admit that yes, evidence does exist for God.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 11:45 AM
  #209  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
Considering psychology is a pseudo science I can't provide scientific research for mental illness. But neither can you for other mental disorders like ADHD and Schizophrenia.

Note: I do not want to get into the psychology is bullshit discussion.
So, let me make sure I have this right.

You're making a ridiculous claim, but refuse to provide evidence for it, because the science that studies this subject disagrees with you, so you discount the entire field, which is an even more outrageous claim, and then tell us we can't discuss it? Shirley, you must be joking!

It's fine to have an opinion on things. You can say you don't like gay people. That's an opinion. But saying that homosexuality is a mental illness isn't voicing an opinion. The fact is that homosexuality ISN'T a mental illness, and the more you claim it is, the less credible you look. And based on your previous posts, your credibility is already pretty thin.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 11:49 AM
  #210  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And that depends on completely what your qualifications are for accepted evidence. Funny, atheists won't establish those parameters because they don't want to be backed into a corner and forced to admit that yes, evidence does exist for God.
Sorry, but "What a beautiful tree! Someone must have designed that tree" is not acceptable evidence for god. Come up with a repeatable physical experiment that proves god's existence and atheists might pay more attention.

Otherwise, it's like me saying you can't prove that there aren't unicorns in the Australian Outback. They're really good at hiding from humans, so you can't see or hear them, but they are out there.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 11:59 AM
  #211  
Video Game Talk Reviewer
 
Canis Firebrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Formerly known as "Vryce"/Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 13,857
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Sorry, but "What a beautiful tree! Someone must have designed that tree" is not acceptable evidence for god. Come up with a repeatable physical experiment that proves god's existence and atheists might pay more attention.

Otherwise, it's like me saying you can't prove that there aren't unicorns in the Australian Outback. They're really good at hiding from humans, so you can't see or hear them, but they are out there.
It does seem very self-fulfilling, at times.

From a previous post, which I am paraphrasing as I can't recall in which thread it was made originally. "I give unto you proof of my words. For you will be mocked and scoffed at and people will not believe. Surely this is proof of my existence." Or the claims that people prayed for sickness to go away while being treated by a doctor. The person gets better and its a miracle and proof of god's existence.

I'm all for people believing what they want to believe and hope that it gives their life meaning and they find contentment in it. Many people have done great things in the name of their religion and/or god. People have also done great things simply for the sake of being a good human. Religion is not necessary for a person to be able to do good acts. Meaning that a person does not have to be religious to be able to do something good in their life. However, Religion may give more people a way to focus their efforts and effect a greater amount of good than a single person. Sorry if that's confusing as I typed it out.

When I have an issue with it is when they are using that belief to petition the government to create laws based on their religion and deny me equal rights and treat me as second-class.

Last edited by Canis Firebrand; 07-08-13 at 12:09 PM.
Canis Firebrand is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:05 PM
  #212  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 31,287
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And that depends on completely what your qualifications are for accepted evidence. Funny, atheists won't establish those parameters because they don't want to be backed into a corner and forced to admit that yes, evidence does exist for God.
When I am not interacting with you, you do not exist. Prove I'm wrong.
Draven is online now  
Old 07-08-13, 12:08 PM
  #213  
DVD Talk Legend
 
kenbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 20,957
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Proving a "negative" is really, really difficult. For example, you can't prove there isn't a magic teapot floating around the dark side of the moon with a dwarf inside of it that reads romance novels and shoots lightning out of its boobs.
kenbuzz is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:09 PM
  #214  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,266
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And that depends on completely what your qualifications are for accepted evidence. Funny, atheists won't establish those parameters because they don't want to be backed into a corner and forced to admit that yes, evidence does exist for God.
Perhaps it best for another thread, but I would settle for reasonable proof or evidence that anything in the gospels relating to Jesus actually happened.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:11 PM
  #215  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CALI!
Posts: 6,972
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
So, let me make sure I have this right.

You're making a ridiculous claim, but refuse to provide evidence for it, because the science that studies this subject disagrees with you, so you discount the entire field, which is an even more outrageous claim, and then tell us we can't discuss it? Shirley, you must be joking!

It's fine to have an opinion on things. You can say you don't like gay people. That's an opinion. But saying that homosexuality is a mental illness isn't voicing an opinion. The fact is that homosexuality ISN'T a mental illness, and the more you claim it is, the less credible you look. And based on your previous posts, your credibility is already pretty thin.
You can't prove that homosexuality is normal unless you use research from a field of study that is not credible (not real science).

Just like Christians can't prove the existence of God, you can't prove that psychology is a real science, thus can't use it to prove that homosexuality is not an illness or that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

It sounds very hypocritical of you to state that God is bullshit and then use a bullshit science that you have no evidence is real to prove your points.
Arpeggi is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:23 PM
  #216  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 18,961
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Gotta love when laypeople get to decide what "real science" is
Hokeyboy is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:30 PM
  #217  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 28,656
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
Considering psychology is a pseudo science I can't provide scientific research for mental illness. But neither can you for other mental disorders like ADHD and Schizophrenia.

Note: I do not want to get into the psychology is bullshit discussion.
This is scary.

For me, I believe in God. I believe Im a Christian.
I believe in the sciences.

To dismiss things, insult things, oppress things that you disagree with is not being Christian.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness. That is a fact. It is not disputable.

As mentioned by others you can believe homosexuality is wrong. The is your choice. But you cannot attribute testable, factual items (such as what is mental illness) as incorrect because you have a bigotry against them.

I don't even understand why you would claim something like this. You and your understanding of your religion are free to feel how you feel bout anything. Why would you bring something outside that realm into the discussion?It does not serve your argument, it hurts your argument. You might as well say "the earth is really flat, but trust me on this Homosexual thing".

Your ONLY argument against homosexuality is based on personal belief and your understanding of your religion. You really should stick to that. Trying to support this using others areas does the opposite of what you are trying to do.

So how many of the sciences are you just going to dismiss,

II. Homosexuality Is A Normal Expression of Human Sexuality, Is Generally Not Chosen, And Is Highly Resistant To Change.
Sexual orientation refers to an enduring disposition to experience sexual, affectional, and/or romantic attractions to one or both sexes. It also encompasses an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, on behaviors expressing those attractions, and on membership in a community of
others who share those attractions and behaviors.2 Although sexual orientation ranges along a continuum from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual, it is usually discussed in three categories: heterosexual (having sexual and romantic attraction primarily or exclusively to members of the other sex), homosexual (having sexual and romantic attraction primarily or exclusively to members of one’s own sex), and bisexual (having a significant degree of sexual and romantic attraction to both sexes).

This is who wrote the brief and put their name on it,

I. The Scientific Evidence Presented In This Brief.
Representing the leading associations of psychological, psychiatric, medical, and social work professionals, Amici have sought in this brief to present an accurate and responsible summary of the current state of scientific and professional knowledge concerning sexual orientation and the family relevant to this case. The brief relies on the best empirical research available.

http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/do...nski-v-opm.pdf

Note I found the post at the AMA site.or is the medical field not real either.

Last edited by Sdallnct; 07-08-13 at 12:42 PM.
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:30 PM
  #218  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,196
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
When I am not interacting with you, you do not exist. Prove I'm wrong.
You are the one making the claim so the burden is on you. It doesn't matter if you present the argument as a positive or negative claim. That's just a lame copout so atheists can make up any bold statement without supporting evidence.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 12:39 PM
  #219  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 31,287
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
You are the one making the claim so the burden is on you. It doesn't matter if you present the argument as a positive or negative claim. That's just a lame copout so atheists can make up any bold statement without supporting evidence.
So it's on you to prove that you exist when I'm not interacting with you? After all, I'm God in this scenario.

Get to provin'!
Draven is online now  
Old 07-08-13, 01:06 PM
  #220  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
You can't prove that homosexuality is normal unless you use research from a field of study that is not credible (not real science).

Just like Christians can't prove the existence of God, you can't prove that psychology is a real science, thus can't use it to prove that homosexuality is not an illness or that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

It sounds very hypocritical of you to state that God is bullshit and then use a bullshit science that you have no evidence is real to prove your points.
So, what you're saying is you have no clue how psychology works. Good job. Credibility rating = 0.

I might give you a point for admitting that the religious can't actually prove the existence of god, though.

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
You are the one making the claim so the burden is on you. It doesn't matter if you present the argument as a positive or negative claim. That's just a lame copout so atheists can make up any bold statement without supporting evidence.
An omnipotent, omniscient being would invalidate all we know of physics, biology, chemistry, and many other things. Thus the existence of god is an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The baseline isn't "There is a god, prove there isn't". The baseline is "We can explain this world without god, so prove there is one."
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 01:13 PM
  #221  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 28,656
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
You can't prove that homosexuality is normal unless you use research from a field of study that is not credible (not real science).

Just like Christians can't prove the existence of God, you can't prove that psychology is a real science, thus can't use it to prove that homosexuality is not an illness or that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

It sounds very hypocritical of you to state that God is bullshit and then use a bullshit science that you have no evidence is real to prove your points.
The AMA put their name and backing on the brief I posted.

Do you believe medicine (medical field) is not credible?
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 01:16 PM
  #222  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Meglos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,409
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
So it's on you to prove that you exist when I'm not interacting with you? After all, I'm God in this scenario.
Or SpottedFeather.
Meglos is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 01:21 PM
  #223  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
GreenMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,346
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

You can't reason with those that throw out reason. I don't even try. I've got one of these types of people as a parent - although I don't talk to her much - but I learned decades ago that reason doesn't fly with them.

Trying to tell her there is no credible evidence for an ancient Jewish civilization in the Americas doesn't get anywhere (my family is mostly Mormons variants). IIRC she's one of the "the devil put dinosaur bones there" people. You simply can't get anywhere with them. They keep only the "science" they want and throw out anything that doesn't jive with their personal beliefs. When the top authority in anything is "God says so" it's like magic on their side. Magic can do anything and explain anything.

I've got no problem with religious folks. In their misguided belief in their omniscient being they do a lot of good for the world. I just wish we could get rid of the bad they do also - the folks using it as a justification for oppression. I think without the hellfire and brimstone we'd have a lot less of them. It's too bad we get the bad with the good.

I just wish some of you anti-gay people could admit that MAYBE the branches of Christianity that are OK with gay people are actually the right interpretation of your ancient book of wisdom. You are so dead-set on your anti-gay interpretation over the more loving and tolerant of your brothers and sisters in Christianity. It's too bad. But I suspect it's just a post-decision justification here anyway. I'm sure if your respective churches changed nothing but their interpretation on gay folks, you'd hop over to another gay-hating church instead.
GreenMonkey is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 01:22 PM
  #224  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
2. Perhaps you, and others, are unaware of the Report Post feature. People should use it if they feel it is warranted.
I'd appreciate if the patronizing tone was kept to a minimum considering I have 35,000 posts and have been here for 12 years. What is with the nastiness with the moderation lately?
CRM114 is offline  
Old 07-08-13, 01:58 PM
  #225  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 11,460
Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by kenbuzz View Post
Proving a "negative" is really, really difficult. For example, you can't prove there isn't a magic teapot floating around the dark side of the moon with a dwarf inside of it that reads romance novels and shoots lightning out of its boobs.
I believe the dwarf reads sci-fi, so naturally I hate you more than any other religion.
adamblast is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.