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Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

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Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Old 07-07-13, 05:44 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
First, I don't pretend to speak for an entire professional community anymore than you speak for all Christians. You can continue to stretch the definition of 'orientation' and 'behavior' (or any other words for that matter) as much as you want. The rest of us will keep using the terms correctly and view your display of mental gymnastics for what it is. The rest of what you wrote is a shining example of why it is so dangerous and potentially harmful to try and mix psychotherapy with religion. Luckily my profession is pretty good at policing these things now...
Question at Dinner Party: Is incest right or wrong?

Dave-o: It's so dangerous and potentially harming to try and mix psychotherapy with religion.

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Old 07-07-13, 05:46 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
I don't have to agree with him to have empathy for what he has been through. Believe it or not, gay people are not some monolithic entity with a hive mind. I am sure there are lots of people of all walks of life that I don't agree with on the nature of consenting adult relationships.
Just as I'm sure that attitudes such as yours are the ones that are the dangerous and potentially damaging ones and perpetuate the conflict in your patients' minds.
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Old 07-07-13, 05:49 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by wm lopez View Post
I agree and so is man have sex with animal or married man with hot wife having affairs with sleazy hookers.
I'm all for my wife having affairs with sleazy hookers as long as I get to watch.
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Old 07-07-13, 05:49 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Of course, it could be that all of us are born with different sinful desires that we have to deal with. But then, that's just according to "some old judgmental book".
I don't believe in sin, but I know we all struggle with unethical desires, sexual or otherwise, or at least desires we find worthy of suppressing. No reading required.
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Adam reserves the right to find some consenting adult orientations disturbing and their resulting behaviors wrong.
Not exactly. I'm still concern-trolling incest & polygamist behavior on issues of consent, and my point was that enforcing celibacy can be cruel toward gays while remaining possibly appropriate for other things.

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Old 07-07-13, 05:57 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Question at Dinner Party: Is incest right or wrong?

Dave-o: It's so dangerous and potentially harming to try and mix psychotherapy with religion.

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Am I at a 'professional' dinner party? Bc I'm not sure you'd like the discussion that followed from that question. You haven't met many psychologists if you think they'd give you a simple and short answer to that question. Again, you missed the point about having empathy for an individual's unique life circumstances. The world is not black and white and people don't fit into neat little boxes. Again, I've seen first hand, time and time again, the damage that can result from religious based counseling. I actually think it has it's place, but too often it overreaches and tries to be something it is not. Again, all you have to do is read what you wrote above to get a glimpse as to why that is.

In my personal life, I have no problem telling people my views on mutually consenting adults who are incestuous either. But hey, I try and be consistent like that whenever I can...
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Old 07-07-13, 06:00 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Just as I'm sure that attitudes such as yours are the ones that are the dangerous and potentially damaging ones and perpetuate the conflict in your patients' minds.
I'll let my work speak for itself thanks. But I don't expect you to understand even the basics of what I do on a day to day basis...
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Old 07-07-13, 06:10 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Well, before the mods step in, I'll be the first to step away from this contest and say "Hasta la Vista, Baby."
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Old 07-07-13, 06:32 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Well, before the mods step in, I'll be the first to step away from this contest and say "Hasta la Vista, Baby."
Thanks (sincerely). I know you and I get into it on this topic from time to time and I appreciate that it is something we both feel passionately about. I know I can get a bit snarky and heated when discussing this, so I apologize if I escalated it beyond healthy debate.
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Old 07-07-13, 06:32 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Or perhaps you don't really exist and are occasional hiccup of the net.

I wish you had posted that years ago...I could simply have chalked up every post you ever made to "making things up" rather than actually considering them. My mistake.

I should have been tipped off by nonsensical, made-up terms such as 'aggressive Christian chauvinism'. Empty rhetoric for the easily-impressed.

Then again, you have been around for millenia, so who am I to argue with that sort of experience?
Let me break it down for you. When I say this:

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Being Jewish actually has a lot to do with behavior.
And you respond with this:

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Which is sad considering their religious heritage.

Then again, according to my Jewish friends, they think they are the only ones in the club, so there's no need to proselytize and not a great need to do anything else to be observant.
Then you are demonstrating either a deep ignorance of the Jewish view on the nature of the Mosaic covenant or you are indulging in borderline anti-semitic rants about Jewish conspiracies to keep you out of the "club." I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were merely ignorant. For the record, you appear to be projecting Christian ideas about "salvation" and "damnation" onto Judaism in a way that is simply meaningless in the context of the Jewish view on the world to come. And, I assure you, Jews -- observant Jews, anyway -- do strive to follow as many of the 613 mitzvot in the Torah as possible.

As for "aggressive Christian chauvinism," the phrase consists of three words that the average middle-school student should understand. Earlier, I was accused of being condescending to another virulently anti-gay Christian poster, so forgive me if I condescend to you, but I will spell out what that phrase means: you implacably argue against gay rights from a point of view that prejudices any world views other than your own version of Christianity and refuse to concede the non-universality of that Christian viewpoint. If there are still words in that sentence that confuse you, let me know and I will break it down for you further.
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Old 07-07-13, 07:16 PM
  #185  
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Spiderbite View Post
It sure would be nice if your all-knowing, all powerful god could maybe use a super-duper megaphone and clarify this to the entire world he created and seems to take such a personal interest in (according to you).

Yet we have to leave it people like yourself to interpret text that was written by ancient men and handed down generation after generation and translated who knows how many times and changed by the powers that be at will over the centuries.

But yeah, your all powerful god is a little too busy to pick up the phone after 2000 years.

How people actually believe this archaic shit is beyond me.

The dead sea scrolls proved that the texts have not been changed.

Archaic shit? Wow, you atheists just can't show an ounce of respect for someone's personal beliefs. That archaic shit has saved ppl's lives, given people hope and peace. What the fuck do you tell ppl in times of pain and tragedy? Sucks to be you, dude?

I tell you what, you go interview any hospice nurse and see if they never experience anything supernatural when a patient dies. Let's see how confidence you are in your "non-belief". I have tons of reasons to support my faith, you have zero basis to believe that there is no life after death. That's plain stupidity, in my book.
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Old 07-07-13, 07:31 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
The dead sea scrolls proved that the texts have not been changed.
How?

Archaic shit? Wow, you atheists just can't show an ounce of respect for someone's personal beliefs. That archaic shit has saved ppl's lives, given people hope and peace. What the fuck do you tell ppl in times of pain and tragedy? Sucks to be you, dude?
What do you tell them? That life goes on after death? I tell them I'm sorry for their loss or their pain and tell them if there is anything I can do to help them out, I will.

And when are you going to show an "ounce of respect" for beliefs other than your own? I sure haven't seen it.

I tell you what, you go interview any hospice nurse and see if they never experience anything supernatural when a patient dies. Let's see how confidence you are in your "non-belief". I have tons of reasons to support my faith, you have zero basis to believe that there is no life after death. That's plain stupidity, in my book.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have a very simple basis to believe there is no life after death. Because there is not one piece of evidence that proves there is. And since I also don't believe in ghosts, or ESP or any other paranormal activity, why would I think there is a secret hidden world of spirits flying around?

Let's see which one sounds more "stupid":

1) When you die, your existence ends

2) When you die, you become an eternal being
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Old 07-07-13, 08:15 PM
  #187  
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
No, no, a thousand times, NO!

It IS the behavior. While I would highly disapprove of the Hugh Hefner-esque example you gave, that's because I would see it as degrading marriage by turning it into a purely pragmatic exchange. In other words, while the octogenarian might marry for love (probably lust), it's unlikely (although possible) that the younger person has any interest in anything other than $. It becomes high-stakes prostitution, not a true marriage. However, as you point out, people marry out of many motives and not just for love.

I'm not proposing that there be a litmus test for marriage in which romantic intent has to be established. As long as the marriage is consensual, it should be legal.

The difference is that heterosexual activity (within the bounds of marriage is condoned by God). Homosexual activity is never condoned by God in any context; rather, it is prohibited. So, while some heterosexual marriages are a mockery of what a true marriage should be (reading how a husband and wife should love each other according to biblical ideals), all homosexual marriages are sinful by nature.

Again, as you say, I'm taking a biblical perspective. Societies don't always do that...some embrace sin and call it good. That's a biblical truth, too.
Well first to state the obvious, no one is suggesting religions must accept same sex marriage. Only legally. If you can "accept" that concenting adults (opposite sex) can marry for many reasons outside of love, it is at least inconsistent that you can't "accept" legal marriage of same sex couples legally.

If you are suggesting that only behavior matters than you in fact are suggesting a test. The test being "who are you having sex with".

Anyway....appreciate the civil discussion. But I just can't accept (remembering I was raised strict catholic) that Jesus would not support caring same sex couples. I honestly believe he would have a larger issue with opposite sex couples that make a mochery of love, caring and support. nor do i believe that he would he would support their discrimination, bigotry, and oppression.
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Old 07-07-13, 09:45 PM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
The dead sea scrolls proved that the texts have not been changed.

Archaic shit? Wow, you atheists just can't show an ounce of respect for someone's personal beliefs. That archaic shit has saved ppl's lives, given people hope and peace. What the fuck do you tell ppl in times of pain and tragedy? Sucks to be you, dude?

I tell you what, you go interview any hospice nurse and see if they never experience anything supernatural when a patient dies. Let's see how confidence you are in your "non-belief". I have tons of reasons to support my faith, you have zero basis to believe that there is no life after death. That's plain stupidity, in my book.

I too am curious as to your belief of the DSS. What do they have to say about Jesus or the Gospels?

And are you aware how old the oldest existing copies of the gospels are?
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Old 07-08-13, 08:01 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
How?




Until these texts became available, the oldest Hebrew Old Testament text in existence dated back to A.D. 800. No original manuscripts of the Bible exist today, so the next best thing is to go back to the oldest copies that would be closest to the originals. The Dead Sea Scrolls allow for that because they are 800-1,000 years older than previously known manuscripts.
What the Dead Sea Scroll manuscripts clearly demonstrate is that through about a thousand years there was essentially no significant alteration in the text. The scribes who transcribed the text of the Bible were so meticulous – they had such high standards of accuracy, counting every word and every letter of every word, dotting each "i" and crossing each "t", so to speak – that one may be absolutely certain the Old Testament text available to scholars today is in essence the same as the originals. The Dead Sea Scrolls are an incontrovertible archaeological confirmation that this is the case.

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/de...pH7lxJLfVdm.99









Originally Posted by Draven View Post
*

I tell them I'm sorry for their loss or their pain and tell them if there is anything I can do to help them out, I will.

Yeah that's really comforting to someone living in chronic pain. Knowing you feel sorry. Sitting there knowing that the random draw of meaningless life lets you continue to go out and enjoy life while the other person must suffer.

Originally Posted by Draven View Post

And when are you going to show an "ounce of respect" for beliefs other than your own? I sure haven't seen it.

I don't go around to other religions and tell them that their beliefs are bullshit.



Originally Posted by Draven View Post

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have a very simple basis to believe there is no life after death. Because there is not one piece of evidence that proves there is. And since I also don't believe in ghosts, or ESP or any other paranormal activity, why would I think there is a secret hidden world of spirits flying around?
Well since we can't die and record what happens and return, there is simply no way to present evidence. It's quite telling though that the ppl who have NDE are immediately discounted. This tells me that you would deny any evidence anyways. As for paranormal activity, there are hundreds of accounts of witnessing supernatural activity including myself. It's pretty arrogant to assume that everyone is just delusional.

Originally Posted by Draven View Post

Let's see which one sounds more "stupid":

1) When you die, your existence ends

2) When you die, you become an eternal being

Which sounds more stupid:


1. We were born for no reason. My love for my family and friends is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain. Evolution just suddenly sprouted up a new path of development for only one species which creates the need and desire for individuality even though that goes against the primal need for survival.


2. God created us as an unique being with a distinct personality giving everyone different abilities and talents. He created the human body as a marvel of engineering.
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Old 07-08-13, 08:13 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Sexual orientation is not a behavior....the belief that it is a behavior is only used as a shield to rationalize bigotry.
Proof?
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Old 07-08-13, 08:21 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
You asked me to cite evidence that sexual orientation is not the same thing as a behavior. I asked you to do a little reading of your own. How'd that go? Nice dodge though... Let me know if you find anything that supports the idea that it is a behavior.

If even half of one percent of gay people are born that way, it is enough to expose your beliefs for what they are.

As a psychologist, I would not presume to judge anyone on feelings they have. Calling someone's feelings "unnatural" is the fast way to being a horrible therapist. Try to stick with what is healthy for that individual and you'd be far better off (the same way that I don't impose any beliefs on the religious folks that I work with). I also would not judge anyone on actions they take as a result of those feelings if they are not harming anyone else or themselves. If someone was happy and in love with their sister, and it's not harming anyone else, it would be quite unethical for me to try and impose a belief system on them that would harm them. This is why I've had to spend so much time repairing the damage caused by so-called "Christian counselors"...
Funny how atheists always put the burden on proof on the Christians. Even in this case when the atheist is presenting a blanket statement as fact, we are support to find the proof to disprove the claim. Otherwise it's true! What a copout.
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Old 07-08-13, 08:44 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Good to see that bald, at fuck busted. That dude was looking for violence and jumped in at his first opportunity. I don't like the Jesus Freaks either but there's no reason for violence.
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Old 07-08-13, 08:46 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Yes, physically assault and injure those who don't agree with you, huh? Fuck freedom of speech. This is the New America! Godless and proud.
I thought you were the one crying about the profanity in the forum?
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Old 07-08-13, 08:55 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I thought you were the one crying about the profanity in the forum?
He was not.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:01 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Semi-Mod note: We, (you and I), don't believe "their god" does anything, since neither of us believe in its existence. The point being, man does a whole host of terrible things, with or without religion. Therefore, perhaps it best if we avoid such generalisations, such as the wish that all Christians would have been stamped out, even in Other.
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Homosexuality hasn't been classed as a mental illness since the days when psychiatrists thought lobotomies and electro-shock therapy were cool.

I love how this bullshit can get posted with no one reporting it, but change "homosexuality" to "Christianity" and there'd be a mod in here issuing warnings -- because, hey, it's homosexuals and their supporters who hate free speech.
I couldn't agree more.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:14 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I tell you what, you go interview any hospice nurse and see if they never experience anything supernatural when a patient dies. Let's see how confidence you are in your "non-belief". I have tons of reasons to support my faith, you have zero basis to believe that there is no life after death. That's plain stupidity, in my book.
Hospice nurses that claim religious experiences are themselves religious and want desperately to attach natural brain death hallucinations with their chosen faith. It's not surprising.

Your "tons of reasons" are reasons based on fictional accounts passed on by generations of humans. You have no actual fact-based reasons, just sweet and sometimes scary fairy tales to which you apply to reality. Whether or not there is something/anything after death we'll all find out after we die but sitting here and trying to positively state what that might be and attach it to a man-made religion is ridiculous.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:20 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
He was not.
Right. That was "moviefan2k4" - now I'm totally confused because I had these two conflated.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:23 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Yeah that's really comforting to someone living in chronic pain. Knowing you feel sorry. Sitting there knowing that the random draw of meaningless life lets you continue to go out and enjoy life while the other person must suffer.
The people in my life I've supported in this way have appreciated it

I don't go around to other religions and tell them that their beliefs are bullshit.
But you tell atheists their beliefs are bullshit. All the time. What's the difference?

Well since we can't die and record what happens and return, there is simply no way to present evidence. It's quite telling though that the ppl who have NDE are immediately discounted. This tells me that you would deny any evidence anyways. As for paranormal activity, there are hundreds of accounts of witnessing supernatural activity including myself. It's pretty arrogant to assume that everyone is just delusional.
I once read an article that offered pretty solid scientific explanations for many paranormal phenomenon like cold spots or seeing things out of the corner of your eye. There is also a 1 million dollar reward out there for proof of the paranormal that hasn't been collected. You're telling me that people are seeing ghosts and not getting a shot of it with their cell phone?

Which sounds more stupid:


1. We were born for no reason. My love for my family and friends is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain. Evolution just suddenly sprouted up a new path of development for only one species which creates the need and desire for individuality even though that goes against the primal need for survival.


2. God created us as an unique being with a distinct personality giving everyone different abilities and talents. He created the human body as a marvel of engineering.
The second one sounds more stupid. The second one requires you to believe not only in the afterlife but omnipresent beings, immortality and an engineer who thought the appendix was a good idea.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:24 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Funny how atheists always put the burden on proof on the Christians. Even in this case when the atheist is presenting a blanket statement as fact, we are support to find the proof to disprove the claim. Otherwise it's true! What a copout.
Let me get this straight. You want me to prove that Sexual Orientation is not a behavior? You are essentially asking me to prove the very definition of what a word means! Do yourself a favor and google the term, see if any current definitions out there say it is just a behavior.

Perhaps you are confused. You seem to think that by saying it is not a behavior, I am implying it is 100% genetic. Luckily, in the real world, things are more nuanced. There are plenty of things that are not considered a behavior, (or conscious "choice") that are not just simple genetics either.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:35 AM
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Re: Seattle gay pride participants beat up Christian street preacher on video

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Let me get this straight. You want me to prove that Sexual Orientation is not a behavior? You are essentially asking me to prove the very definition of what a word means! Do yourself a favor and google the term, see if any current definitions out there say it is just a behavior.

Perhaps you are confused. You seem to think that by saying it is not a behavior, I am implying it is 100% genetic. Luckily, in the real world, things are more nuanced. There are plenty of things that are not considered a behavior, (or conscious "choice") that are not just simple genetics either.
I suppose, on some level, that it makes sense that the religious view it as a choice. they are told, time and time again, that faith and prayer and god/Jesus can cure homosexual people of their homosexuality.. However, those efforts normally do not work and cause far more emotional and psychological issues that in turn need to be dealt with.

The simplest test that I can think of, that has been brought up by others many times, is the simple question "When did you choose to be heterosexual?" If you cannot recall the instance that you did so, then why is it any different for a homosexual person?
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