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View Poll Results: Assuming it's between consenting adults, which types of marriage should be legal?
Marriage legal for gays, incestuous couples & polygamists
44.00%
Marriage legal for gays & incestuous couples, illegal for polygamists
2.67%
Marriage legal for gays & polygamists, illegal for incestuous couples
16.00%
Marriage legal for incestuous couples & polygamists, illegal for gays
1.33%
Marriage legal for gays, illegal for incestuous couples & polygamists
21.33%
Marriage legal for incestuous couples, illegal for gays & polygamists
1.33%
Marriage legal for polygamists, illegal for gays & incestuous couples
1.33%
Marriage illegal for gays, incestuous couples & polygamists
4.00%
Marriage legal for twickoff
8.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Old 07-07-13, 08:33 AM
  #551  
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dork View Post
1) Sodom
2) Gomorrah
3) The Death Star
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Old 07-07-13, 09:19 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
You don't have to accept it. You just have to stop actively trying to prevent it with laws and discriminatory practices. Unfortunately, some Christians take it upon themselves to keep others from doing things they disapprove of, even when those things have nothing to do with the Christians themselves.

And it IS on par with heterosexual marriage. It's two people getting married. Just because the parts don't connect in the way a mythical man in the sky approves of doesn't mean they aren't the same thing.
I was referring to the acceptance needing to be on par, not the concept (of 2 people).

Maybe my post was poorly worded, maybe it was your anti-Christian bias that caused the confusion.
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Old 07-07-13, 09:30 AM
  #553  
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

I declined to attend a dear Mormon actor-friend's wedding about a year after Prop 8 passed. I left the reason just vague enough so that neither of us would have to deal with what was left unspoken, and included enough flowery language & Mormon-wedding-speak about their eternal life together to bowl them over. They have tons of gay friends since he's in theater. I have no idea how the others handled it, but it felt like I was one of the few who had any conflict over it.

Gay people are self-trained very early to roll with varying levels of acceptance, even full condemnation. Accepting yourself becomes a matter of re-drawing those lines in big & little ways, looking for honor & respect where there was none, for the rest of your life. No one with any sensitivity expects an on-the-spot evolution.

Last edited by adamblast; 07-07-13 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 07-07-13, 09:52 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
I declined to attend a dear Mormon actor-friend's wedding about a year after Prop 8 passed. I left the reason just vague enough so that neither of us would have to deal with what was left unspoken, and included enough flowery language & Mormon-wedding-speak about their eternal life together to bowl them over. They have tons of gay friends since he's in theater. I have no idea how the others handled it, but it felt like I was one of the few who had any conflict over it.

Gay people are self-trained very early to roll with varying levels of acceptance, even full condemnation. Accepting yourself becomes a matter of re-drawing those lines in big & little ways, looking for honor & respect where there was none, for the rest of your life. No one with any sensitivity expects an on-the-spot evolution.
Let's see, with this one I'm going to go with:

"So you wouldn't attend his wedding, but you expect Christians to attend yours? Atheist hypocrite!"


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Old 07-07-13, 10:03 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I was referring to the acceptance needing to be on par, not the concept (of 2 people).

Maybe my post was poorly worded, maybe it was your anti-Christian bias that caused the confusion.
I have an anti-Christian bias? I specifically said "some Christians" - not all. As I've stated before, my father is a minister. As is my aunt, uncle, and brother in law. I grew up in the church and it played a huge role in my upbringing. Some of my best friends are Christians. My actual name is Christian.

I can disapprove of what some Christians do without having a bias.
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Old 07-07-13, 10:22 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post
To go along with what you are saying, It's an unfair burden on same-sex relationships/marriage that isn't present in a heterosexual relationship/marriage. Because the same-sex relationship doesn't have the inherent protections that would be present if same-sex marriage were treated the same as heterosexual marriage. And even after going through all that with a will, etc, it can be challenged if the family of one doesn't approve of the relationship or a hospital staff member not agreeing with the lifestyle and barring the partner because they aren't married or family.

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Old 07-07-13, 10:27 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
I only have acquaintances (coworkers, etc) and a cousin I'm not close with.
Well, there you go.
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Old 07-07-13, 11:06 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
That's just not true though. I see that as a rationalization people tell themselves so they don't have to feel bad about their discriminatory beliefs. But that is because I see this issue as no different than being against interracial marriage. The same rationalization was used then as well.
Thanks for your thoughts...very informative. What part wasn't true? Trust me there are Churches out there who do not engage in politics - our primary concern is to love the Lord and love others.
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Old 07-07-13, 11:07 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
Just because you had a great time living in sin doesn't make it right.
Just because an old book says something is wrong doesn't make it wrong.
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Old 07-07-13, 11:13 AM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Thanks for your thoughts...very informative. What part wasn't true? Trust me there are Churches out there who do not engage in politics - our primary concern is to love the Lord and love others.
I was referring to the rationalization that it's not about individuals, it's about actions and behaviors. IMO, that is what people tell themselves to feel better about discriminatory beliefs. It's what they said about interracial marriage. The truth is, it is about individuals. When you see firsthand how this bigotry can have a devastating impact on the lives of good people that you care about, it is very much about the individuals involved.
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Old 07-07-13, 12:54 PM
  #561  
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Originally Posted by Arpeggi View Post
Just because you had a great time living in sin doesn't make it right.
being judgmental toward people is wrong but it never stops you

Last edited by Bacon; 07-07-13 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 07-07-13, 01:10 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
being judgmental toward people is wrong but it never stops you
Haha good thing you edited out "prick".
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Old 07-07-13, 01:29 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

I think, but again, it's easy to make like hard for people when it doesn't affect you at all.
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Old 07-07-13, 02:47 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post

I posted a couple of videos that kind of explain where I'm coming from and trying to highlight. They are a few pages back. I can link to the posts if you can't find them.. One is a video that goes more into "what if heterosexual relationships were not the norm?" and the other gets into why the word marriage and its protections are important for same-sex relationships.
If one lived in a country in which homosexuality was the norm and heterosexuals made up around 3% of the population, I think heterosexuals would expect to be treated differently.

Even one prominent homosexual poster here said that he didn't see why societies shouldn't be allowed to decide which behaviors are normal and why those societies shouldn't be allowed to set standards (including treating some behaviors as illegal). And he wasn't talking about behaviors that harmed other people, either...he was talking about consensual adult sexual relationships.

Your hypothetical question ignores the reality that homosexuality deviates from the norm in a drastic way (both physically and statistically). From all that I have read from neutral or pro-homosexual-marriage articles recently, the % of those engaging primarily in homosexual activities has remained pretty constant. It's not as though there's going to be a sudden groundswell of changed preferences.

And, despite the assertions of the majority of those taking the poll, you're not going to find a huge number of people agreeing that no one should be treated as second-class citizens due to their sexual behaviors; in fact, just the opposite.
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Old 07-07-13, 02:50 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Just because an old book says something is wrong doesn't make it wrong.
What does make things wrong? Majority vote? Tradition? TMZ?
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Old 07-07-13, 02:55 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Artman View Post

I disagree with Churches who advocate for political issues (both right and left) and I've been fortunate to attend non-denominational ones over the years that make a point not to. We pray for our leaders and communities with no cynicism or strings attached.
Just curious, Art...what do you pray for when you pray for your leaders and your communities?

Do you just pray in a general sense for their well-being, or do you pray that they would institute God's laws and realize that their authority comes from Him and govern accordingly?
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Old 07-07-13, 03:38 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Just curious, Art...what do you pray for when you pray for your leaders and your communities?

Do you just pray in a general sense for their well-being, or do you pray that they would institute God's laws and realize that their authority comes from Him and govern accordingly?
Aren't you supposed to "render unto Caesar" and all that?
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Old 07-07-13, 04:00 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Aren't you supposed to "render unto Caesar" and all that?
You mean, "I was just following orders"?

No.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:03 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
You mean, "I was just following orders"?

No.
Nope, try again.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:05 PM
  #570  
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I have an anti-Christian bias? I specifically said "some Christians" - not all. As I've stated before, my father is a minister. As is my aunt, uncle, and brother in law. I grew up in the church and it played a huge role in my upbringing. Some of my best friends are Christians. My actual name is Christian.

I can disapprove of what some Christians do without having a bias.
You can have anti-Christian bias and have Christian relatives... The two are not mutually exclusive.

You expect anyone to believe that your "mythical man in the sky" remark is an indicator of someone who respects beliefs different than their own?

You took what I said and immediately went to deriding a belief in God even though I didn't mention religion or infer it in the post you responded to. You are the one who inserted a reference to "some Christians" in responding to my post.

At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that you're taking an anti-Christian dig when you get called out on it.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:11 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Nope, try again.
???

Seriously, Dave, the 'rendering unto Caesar' (as in obeying laws that do not conflict with God's commands; i.e., it is lawful for the state to levy taxes, to establish certain standards of conduct, etc.) isn't inconsistent with biblical beliefs. Nor is praying that the elected leaders would adhere to God's standards; after all, that is why the civil magistrates and leaders are to reminded that their authority depends upon God's approval and that they will be held accountable. Also, the biblical doctrine that God honors those nations whose leaders enforce God's statutes and honor Him and judges those nations which turn away from God.

So what's your point, dude?
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Old 07-07-13, 04:21 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Do you just pray in a general sense for their well-being, or do you pray that they would institute God's laws and realize that their authority comes from Him and govern accordingly?
Yeah, mostly for their safety, wisdom in governing, etc. I do sometimes get a little nervous there will be some subtle jab, or partisan remarks in the prayer..lol, but there isn't. (we are certainly a traditional, conservative congregation) We pray for those struggling financially in the community, etc.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:28 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
???

Seriously, Dave, the 'rendering unto Caesar' (as in obeying laws that do not conflict with God's commands; i.e., it is lawful for the state to levy taxes, to establish certain standards of conduct, etc.) isn't inconsistent with biblical beliefs. Nor is praying that the elected leaders would adhere to God's standards; after all, that is why the civil magistrates and leaders are to reminded that their authority depends upon God's approval and that they will be held accountable. Also, the biblical doctrine that God honors those nations whose leaders enforce God's statutes and honor Him and judges those nations which turn away from God.

So what's your point, dude?
That I wish more Christians took that verse as the more strict meaning and not the more liberal interpretation. Like the JWs do. They don't vote or mess with politics. I see that as a good thing.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:38 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
That I wish more Christians took that verse as the more strict meaning and not the more liberal interpretation. Like the JWs do. They don't vote or mess with politics. I see that as a good thing.
Well, of course!
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Old 07-07-13, 04:45 PM
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Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Yeah, mostly for their safety, wisdom in governing, etc. I do sometimes get a little nervous there will be some subtle jab, or partisan remarks in the prayer..lol, but there isn't. (we are certainly a traditional, conservative congregation) We pray for those struggling financially in the community, etc.
I get that you don't want partisan politics interjected ("And get those *$%^ Socialists out of power) in some type of imprecatory prayer (misspelled), but what sort of 'wisdom' do you want them to use? Earthly "wisdom" (the type that says, "These babies born to low-income, single mothers will have an awful life and be abused, so the kinder thing to do is to abort them") or wisdom based upon God's Word?

If the latter, at some point I would think that the prayers would have to gravitate from the general to the specific, especially if you are seeing changes come about in our society that are contrary to God's Word (and which are explicitly condoned AND encouraged by our leaders).

Our church prays sincerely for our leaders to follow God's Laws rather than the whims of men...and we don't mind praying, as the psalmist did, that (absent repentance) God would remove His enemies and replace them with godly rulers. In the same vein, we pray for a revival of the conscience of our nation and turning to God's standards.

Political parties and names are not mentioned.
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