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View Poll Results: In 5 years, how many more states will allow SSM?
0
5
7.14%
1
0
0%
2
0
0%
3
1
1.43%
4
1
1.43%
5
7
10.00%
6
2
2.86%
7
1
1.43%
8
5
7.14%
9
1
1.43%
10+
28
40.00%
SCOUTS will have made it the law of the land in all 50 states
19
27.14%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

Same Sex Marriage: 2018 (State's legal issues)

Old 06-27-13, 11:55 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
http://nj1015.com/christie-courts-de...marriage-bill/

“I don’t think the ruling was appropriate, I think it was wrong,” said Christie, “It’s typical of the problem we see in the New Jersey Supreme Court. The Court, without a basis in standing, substituted their own judgement for the judgement of a republican Congress and a democratic President [...] It’s another example of Judicial supremacy.”
Did Christie release a similar statement about the Voting Rights Act decision?

I'll save you the time: he did not.
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Old 06-27-13, 12:03 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Did Christie release a similar statement about the Voting Rights Act decision?

I'll save you the time: he did not.
Was he asked about it? Does it affect NJ? NJ isn't on the list of "bad" states, nor were any of its municipalities.
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Old 06-27-13, 12:26 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
I ask you...how many people who support homosexual marriage without equivocation on the grounds of equality would also embrace the same philosophical ideas toward other marital arrangements that fall outside of the norm.
Our society disapproves of many things, and that disapproval does not make them equivalent. Nor is it illogical to continue believing in some laws or norms simply because you disagree with one. Plus: just how outside the norm a married gay couple is is exactly what's changing, with the answer becoming: not very.
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Old 06-27-13, 12:37 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
Our society disapproves of many things, and that disapproval does not make them equivalent. Nor is it illogical to continue believing in some laws or norms simply because you disagree with one. Plus: just how outside the norm a married gay couple is is exactly what's changing, with the answer becoming: not very.
I never understood the reasoning that if you support same-sex marriage that you have to support all these other marriages (sibblings, multiple spouses, dog/cat, inanimate object, etc) and if you didn't you are a hypocrite.
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Old 06-27-13, 12:37 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
Our society disapproves of many things, and that disapproval does not make them equivalent. Nor is it illogical to continue believing in some laws or norms simply because you disagree with one. Plus: just how outside the norm a married gay couple is is exactly what's changing, with the answer becoming: not very.
c'mon. Don't you know that today letting two guys marry mean tomorrow you have to let me enter a plural marriage involving my dog, my dead great-grandmother, my dinette set, the alpha centauri solar system, the color green, a child's laughter and an amoeba. My best man will be the geographical coordinate 41.230325, -76.980539, and the officiant will be the month of November.
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Old 06-27-13, 12:44 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Mod Note: Please remember that, per the rules, thread crapping is not allowed, and that continual use of talking points is discouraged.

Thank You.
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Old 06-27-13, 01:54 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Vryce View Post
Thanks.. missed that originally.. So 2 states went well beyond and made it really like treating people as second class citizens and/or "stick it to the gays".

I was actually surprised the MI amendment took it that far. Michigan isn't as liberal as other states nor are is it as conservative as others. I always felt it was more of a middle state.
I dunno where you live in MI, but I've always felt it's pretty much a red-dominated state everywhere except for Ann Arbor / Detroit area.

This is from the 2012 presidential election (thanks to wikipedia).



Up here in the Midland area it's certainly conservative. Lots of churches, hunters, etc and IMO a lot of "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" Republicans. My wife has a friend who is one of those classic Republicans that rails about people freeloading off of social programs while living in low-income housing/getting food assistance/etc herself.

Older election maps do show more Democratic counties, but I think a lot of them are probably are more economic-issues Democrats (union workers, etc) than social-issues Democrats.
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Old 06-27-13, 02:00 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
I dunno where you live in MI, but I've always felt it's pretty much a red-dominated state everywhere except for Ann Arbor / Detroit area.

This is from the 2012 presidential election (thanks to wikipedia).



Up here in the Midland area it's certainly conservative. Lots of churches, hunters, etc and IMO a lot of "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" Republicans. My wife has a friend who is one of those classic Republicans that rails about people freeloading off of social programs while living in low-income housing/getting food assistance/etc herself.

Older election maps do show more Democratic counties, but I think a lot of them are probably are more economic-issues Democrats (union workers, etc) than social-issues Democrats.
I'm in Redford, close to Detroit. I guess my perception is colored by being in the Detroit and Ann Arbor areas mostly. The more rural seem to be conservative, but smaller in numbers which is why I thought that overall the state would be more in the middle.
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Old 06-27-13, 02:05 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

I guess I lost the bet that Gay Marriage would be legal in 50 states before I had an avatar here
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Old 06-27-13, 02:33 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

michigan looks pretty purple to me:

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Old 07-01-13, 02:01 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

I can't seem to find the post I made about this the other week when it was just an talking point.

I'm sure, hopeful I guess, that it won't go anywhere. But still saddened that there are people still wishing to encode discrimination in the Constitution.

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/shamef...duced-in-house

Shameful: So-Called ‘Marriage Protection Amendment’ Introduced in House

July 1, 2013 by Eric Cameron, Digital Media Associate

Late Friday Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-Kansas) and 28 conservative cosponsors introduced a federal constitutional amendment in the House of Representatives, which would define marriage in the United States as the union of one man and one woman.

The proposed amendment would overturn laws in the 13 states and D.C. that currently have marriage equality and prevent any future same-sex marriages in any state.

Rep. Huelskamp attempted to defend the proposed amendment during an interview yesterday with David Gregory on Meet the Press, citing widely discredited research that children suffer from being raised in homes with same-sex parents.

HRC will strongly oppose any efforts by Congress to advance this so-called “Marriage Protection Amendment.” A constitutional amendment requires a two-thirds vote by both the House and Senate and then must be ratified by three-fourths of the states.
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Old 07-01-13, 02:08 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
I guess I lost the bet that Gay Marriage would be legal in 50 states before I had an avatar here
Speaking of, between your avatar and your user name, you've got me wondering -- how is it that someone in Texas is a Chicago sports fan? Are you a transplanted Chciagoan, or a Texan who somehow came to love Chicago sports?
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Old 07-01-13, 02:31 PM
  #63  
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post
I can't seem to find the post I made about this the other week when it was just an talking point.

I'm sure, hopeful I guess, that it won't go anywhere. But still saddened that there are people still wishing to encode discrimination in the Constitution.

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/shamef...duced-in-house
Chance of 38 states signing this: zero
Chance of 67 senators signing this: zero
Chance of 290 representatives signing this: maybe not zero, but pretty damn close to zero.

How many of the 28 co-sponsors or potential votes in the House are young enough that they expect to be politically active in 20 years? In 10 years? How many people who were vociferously opposed to interracial marriage in 1967 were still proud of that opinion in 1977? In 1987? Singing a bill that can't pass just makes people have to go on record that they may not be able to defend if they're still running for office in 10-15 years.
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Old 07-01-13, 04:16 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

The Senate would dropkick that amendment into the dark ages where it belongs.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:28 PM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...n-trial/66766/

"Plaintiffs’ equal protection claim has sufficient merit to proceed. The United States Supreme Court’s recent decision in United States v. Windsor, No. 12-307 (U.S. Jun. 26, 2013), has provided the requisite precedential fodder for both parties to this litigation. plaintiffs are prepared to claim Windsor as their own...And why shouldn’t they? The Supreme Court has just invalidated a federal statute on equal protection grounds because it “place[d] same-sex couples in an unstable position of being in a second-tier marriage.” Id. slip op. at 23. Moreover, and of particular importance to this case, the justices expressed concern that the natural consequence of such discriminatory legislation would not only lead to the relegation of same-sex relationships to a form of second-tier status, but impair the rights of “tens of thousands of children now being raised by same-sex couples” as well. Id. This is exactly the type of harm plaintiffs seek to remedy in this case."
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Old 07-02-13, 07:45 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Read a favorable article that lead to the Homeland security page. same-sex partners, having had a legal marriage (ie performed in a state that recognizes such marriages) can petition for spousal visa to start the immigration process for their spouse from another country. This is, according to the Homeland Security page, can happen even if the same-sex couple lives in a state that does not recognize same-sex marriage. The one story I read was a couple living in Florida. One person is an American citizen, the other is from a foreign country. They went to New York and were married and then petitioned for spousal visa to get the immigration process started. They did this back in March of this year, I believe. Two days after the DOMA ruling, they received approval for their petition.

http://www.domaproject.org/2013/06/p...riage-act.html

Spoiler:

Gay Couple in Florida Receives Approval of Marriage-Based Green Card Petition Just Two Days After Historic Supreme Court Ruling Striking Down DOMA

At June 30, 2013
By The DOMA Project

The DOMA Project Couple Receives First-Ever Approval of Green Card Petition, Recognizing their Marriage


Just two days after the historic Supreme Court ruling striking down the Defense of Marriage Act Section 3, The DOMA Project participants, Julian Marsh and Traian Popov of Fort Lauderdale, Florida received good news. Julian’s green card petition for his Bulgarian husband was approved by United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) at 3:45 p.m. EDT Friday afternoon June 28th. On June 26, the U.S. Supreme Court in a 5-4 ruling struck down the Defense of Marriage Act, a law that prohibited the federal government from recognizing marriages of same-sex couples for all purposes including immigration benefits, as a violation of the equal protection guarantee of the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Julian and Traian met in March 5, 2011 at a friend’s home in Florida. Within a week, they had a second run-in at another friend’s house and began dating shortly thereafter. “I met him, I fell in love, and that was it,” says Julian. They married in Brooklyn, New York in October 2012, because of the connections both have had to New York City and because their home state of Florida does not permit same-sex couples to marry. Traian (“Tray”) Popov has been a student in the United States since 1998 and is currently pursuing a PhD in Conflicts Analysis and Resolution. Julian Marsh is an internationally acclaimed DJ and music producer.

As one of the binational couples participating in The DOMA Project, Julian, a U.S. citizen, filed an I-130 Petition for his husband Traian on February 13th, 2013. Notification of the approval of his petition arrived by e-mail on Friday from USCIS within just two days of the Supreme Court ruling. June 28th was also, coincidentally, Julian’s birthday.

Since it was founded in 2010 by attorneys Lavi Soloway and Noemi Masliah, The DOMA Project has filed almost 100 green card petitions for same-sex couples affected by DOMA. USCIS has announced that will soon issue guidance for all DOMA-impacted immigration cases. The DOMA Project is working closely with members of Congress and with the Obama administration to ensure that all petitions and applications filed by lesbian and gay couples be handled and processed as expeditiously as possible.

Florida’s Republican U.S. Senator Marco Rubio stated on June 13th that he would walk away from any Senate bill to address the needs of same-sex couples and their families.

“We have love, joy and happiness in our lives. Thanks to the Supreme Court and President Obama we have an approved green card petition and we get to stay in our home and our country. If DOMA had not been struck down we were faced with no alternative but to leave our home and the country that we love so much. We feel extremely grateful and fortunate to have been given the greatest gift possible as we celebrate gay pride around the country. Today we rejoice. Next week we get back to work to defeat all the barriers to full equality,” said Julian from his home in Florida.

From Lavi Soloway, Attorney and Co-Founder of the DOMA Project:

“The approval of this petition demonstrates that the Obama administration’s commitment to recognizing the marriages of same-sex couples nationwide is now a reality on the ground, just two days after the Supreme Court’s ruling striking down DOMA. We expect additional approvals of green card petitions in the coming days.

“It is symbolically important that the first gay couple to receive approval of their green card petition live in Florida, a state that has a constitutional ban preventing same-sex couples from marrying. U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-Florida) has repeatedly and shamefully scapegoated gay Americans and their families, threatening to kill comprehensive immigration reform if it included a provision for LGBT families. Today, the Supreme Court ruling affirmed that committed and loving binational lesbian and gay couples in Florida and across the country deserve to be treated with respect and equal recognition under the law by the federal government. In stark contrast to Senator Rubio’s disparaging tone rejecting the dignity of lesbian and gay Americans, the Supreme Court ruling and the green card approval have brought justice to Julian and Traian.”

“This historic first green card approval confirms that for immigration purposes the Supreme Court ruling striking down DOMA will extend equal recognition to same-sex couples in all 50 states, as long as they have a valid marriage.”

The DOMA Project is a campaign to stop the deportations, separations, and exile of gay and lesbian binational couples caused by the Defense of Marriage Act.


http://www.domaproject.org/2013/07/d...out-delay.html
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano Announces All Green Card Cases Filed By Gay Couples Will Be Processed Without Delay





What will be interesting to see is how taxes are filed in such a case. Since Florida doesn't recognize the marriage, would they have to file separate for state but a joint return for Federal?

Last edited by Canis Firebrand; 07-02-13 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 07-02-13, 08:59 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

The immigration stuff is legitimately awesome.
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Old 07-02-13, 09:02 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
The immigration stuff is legitimately awesome.
Yes it is.. More so that they base the decision on the state the marriage was in rather than the state you live in.

It has me looking into what I need to do to go to a state like New York to get married so I can begin the petition process myself, since my home state of Michigan doesn't recognize same-sex marriage.
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Old 07-02-13, 09:06 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post
Yes it is.. More so that they base the decision on the state the marriage was in rather than the state you live in.

It has me looking into what I need to do to go to a state like New York to get married so I can begin the petition process myself, since my home state of Michigan doesn't recognize same-sex marriage.
New York has no residency requirement to get married. That might be your best option.
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Old 07-02-13, 09:15 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
New York has no residency requirement to get married. That might be your best option.
I thought that was the issue. New York is probably the closest as well.. And I could turn it into a mini vacation to visit NYC.
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Old 07-02-13, 09:47 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand View Post
I thought that was the issue. New York is probably the closest as well.. And I could turn it into a mini vacation to visit NYC.
If you end up visiting, let me know!
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Old 07-02-13, 09:48 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Question for the legal minds about Michigan, from the link I posted earlier.

Michigan's constitution was amended in 2004 to stop same sex marriage, civil unions, or any type of domestic partnership type loophole. A judge in Michigan says he's going to take on same sex marriages, now that SCOTUS has issued an opinion on DOMA. But can a state judge declare something unconstitutional if it's in that state's constitution?

If Michigan amended their constitution to put in new term limits for the state legislature, how could the michigan courts rule term limits unconstitutional?
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Old 07-02-13, 10:23 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

<strike>dear threadcrapper:</strike>


link removed. Posted link to appropriate thread in post #80

Last edited by Pharoh; 07-02-13 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 07-02-13, 11:23 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Question for the legal minds about Michigan, from the link I posted earlier.

Michigan's constitution was amended in 2004 to stop same sex marriage, civil unions, or any type of domestic partnership type loophole. A judge in Michigan says he's going to take on same sex marriages, now that SCOTUS has issued an opinion on DOMA. But can a state judge declare something unconstitutional if it's in that state's constitution?

If Michigan amended their constitution to put in new term limits for the state legislature, how could the michigan courts rule term limits unconstitutional?
The U.S. Constitution trumps state constitutions, so if Michigan amedned its constitution to completely ban firearms and Christianity (to take an absurd example), a state court judge would absolutely have authority to decalre that provision unconstitutional.

In this case, the Michigan judge has said he reads the Supreme Court decision of last week as rooted in the Equal Protection Clause, so if he determines that EPC requires gay marriage, he has authority to declare the Michigan COnstitutional provision unconstitutional as violative of the U.S. Cosntitution. That decision would be appealable up through the Michigan court system and ultimately, since its based on interpretation of the federal Constitution, to the U.S> Supreme Court.
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Old 07-02-13, 11:24 AM
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Re: Same Sex Marriage: 2018

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Mod Note: continual use of talking points is discouraged.
And the politics forum suddenly vanishes!
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