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NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Old 06-05-13, 08:32 PM
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NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...on-court-order

I guess this wasn't one of the things that Obama wanted to "CHANGE" from the last administration.
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Old 06-06-13, 01:25 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Complete bullshit. Next thing you know they'll be able to enter your home without a warrant or even probably cause. The American people are being treated as suspect.
Every day it seems there is some new way to spy on every American in this country. Tomorrow you'll need to leave a finger print to buy bread.
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Old 06-06-13, 06:13 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I learned about this by reading a newspaper. I wonder if Obama did, too.
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Old 06-06-13, 07:07 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Terrible policy. The timing suggests it's tied to the Boston bombing. I'm not sure how a sweeping analysis of all cell phone metadata nationwide makes more sense than a focused examination of the bombers' cell phone records.

Reading it as charitably as possible for the NSA (not that they've earned that benefit of the doubt, but hypothetically), I suppose it's possible they got this warrant before they ID'd the bombing suspects. If that's the case, I would hope that it was modified as soon as they had confirmed the Tsarnaevs were responsible.

Regardless, this kind of broad intelligence-gathering power has been supported by both parties since 9/11. There are a few lone voices arguing against it (Sens. Ryan, Udall, and Wyden, and a handful of others), but by and large, the powers that be seem to support it. In hindisght, history is not going to judge us well for it.
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Old 06-06-13, 08:11 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Hey, you want a transparent administration, they need to vet you first.
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Old 06-06-13, 08:38 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

This seems like exactly the type of thing that Candidate Obama in 2008 was against. Now the White House comes out and doesn't act like this was another IRS surprise that they found out about in the same newspaper that we all did.

Was Obama full of shit in 2008? Or did his perspective change when he became president and gained access to a lot more information?
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Old 06-06-13, 08:59 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[Pelosi] The Director of the NSA was appointed by Bush so it's his fault. [/Pelosi]
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Old 06-06-13, 09:25 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Oh FFS the government has been becoming more tyrannical for decades.

People haven't known this since Clinton implemented Carnivore? That was the Rubicon of this stuff, though the massive amount of spying on US citizens was going on before that, Carnivore was where they just quit pretending not to and took the gloves off.

Man the games still distract the ignorant plebs, with their 30 second attention spans, while the powerful work their intrigues to this day don't they?

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Old 06-06-13, 09:30 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

So the government wants to know who you are, where you have been, and with whom you associate. They want daily updates. The secret order comes from a secret court and it says right in the text that Verizon can't tell anyone that the order exists.

That's creepy secret police tactics.

I'm glad that someone had the balls to leak this, even at the risk of spending ten years down the hall from Bradley Manning.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:51 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
So the government wants to know who you are, where you have been, and with whom you associate. They want daily updates. The secret order comes from a secret court and it says right in the text that Verizon can't tell anyone that the order exists.

That's creepy secret police tactics.

I'm glad that someone had the balls to leak this, even at the risk of spending ten years down the hall from Bradley Manning.
And I'm glad someone else took the opportunity to make a post in this thread about the policy instead of using it as an excuse to rant about Obama (or Pelosi).

And I saw something that suggests that even though this is a 3-month warrant, they've been doing 3 month warrants since 2006 and renewing it every 3 months. So if that's true, contrary to my "give them the benefit of the doubt" post earlier, this has nothing to do with the Boston bombing and is simply more of the same "Terrorists want to get you so you must live in 1984" crap.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:54 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

"Declassify on: 12 April 2038"

Most transparent administration in history!
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Old 06-06-13, 09:58 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
And I'm glad someone else took the opportunity to make a post in this thread about the policy instead of using it as an excuse to rant about Obama (or Pelosi).
And you were all too quick to remind us that both parties are guilty. Don't pretend you are above it all.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:10 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
Oh FFS the government has been becoming more tyrannical for decades.

People haven't known this since Clinton implemented Carnivore? That was the Rubicon of this stuff, though the massive amount of spying on US citizens was going on before that, Carnivore was where they just quit pretending not to and took the gloves off.

Man the games still distract the ignorant plebs, with their 30 second attention spans, while the powerful work their intrigues to this day don't they?

The first thing I thought was, "99% of Americans are going to ignore this." So fucking pathetic.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:17 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

It is pathetic.

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Old 06-06-13, 10:24 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

That's a pretty nice looking city. Any vacant apartments there?
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Old 06-06-13, 10:26 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

... yeah .. free Health Care too ... a great place to live.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:39 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

How many typewriter stores does it have?
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Old 06-06-13, 10:46 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
And I'm glad someone else took the opportunity to make a post in this thread about the policy instead of using it as an excuse to rant about Obama (or Pelosi).
Oh my yes, it's completely unreasonable for people to blame the President for the government perpetrating a massive civil rights violation.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:51 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Oh my yes, it's completely unreasonable for people to blame the President for the government perpetrating a massive civil rights violation.
Especially when the President was elected by pretending to be horrified that the government could do this.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:57 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I'm not throwing Obama under the bus on this just yet, but there are only so many times "I'm as angry about it as you are!" is going to fly.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:00 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I am pretty sure his 2008 campaign was based at least in part at being against the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, and the Bush anti-terrorism policy. I can get him not knowing about the IRS problems, but given he specifically spoke out against this sort of thing, it all seems fair game to go after Obama on this kind of thing.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:06 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I remember when this type of stuff first came to light ten years ago. When the shit hit the fan Bush gave a news conference defending it.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:20 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
I'm not throwing Obama under the bus on this just yet, but there are only so many times "I'm as angry about it as you are!" is going to fly.
By the man's second term, I have to doubt it when he says he's as angry about it as I am.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:29 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
I remember when this type of stuff first came to light ten years ago. When the shit hit the fan Bush gave a news conference defending it.
Under Bush, wasn't there a general impression that there were certain "suspicious" people being targeted and phone records were being sought for those suspicious people? I don't remember the Bush administration saying they wanted records of every single phone call made by every single American.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:42 AM
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Re: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
By the man's second term, I have to doubt it when he says he's as angry about it as I am.



Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me

The front-running Democrat in the New Hampshire primary makes the promise in one last stump speech at an election day rally with the Facebook generation.

by Anne Broache
January 8, 2008 1:16 PM PST

Sen. Barack Obama slams President Bush's warrantless wiretap program at Dartmouth College in his last public appearance before the polls close here in New Hampshire.


HANOVER, N.H.--Barack Obama may be leading the Democratic presidential pack in every major poll here, but that didn't dissuade the Illinois senator from a final early-morning rally with the Facebook generation.

Clearly not content to leave their votes to the whims of online politicking, the Illinois senator stepped onto a stage fashioned in a Dartmouth College gymnasium, pulled an index card from his inside jacket pocket, and launched into a familiar set of talking points centered on what has become a familiar theme for his campaign: change and hope.

"My job this morning is to be so persuasive...that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack," he told a crowd of about 300 Ivy Leaguers--and, by the looks of it, a handful of locals who managed to gain access to what was supposed to be a students-only event.

For one thing, under an Obama presidency, Americans will be able to leave behind the era of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and "wiretaps without warrants," he said. (He was referring to the lingering legal fallout over reports that the National Security Agency scooped up Americans' phone and Internet activities without court orders, ostensibly to monitor terrorist plots, in the years after the September 11 attacks.)

It's hardly a new stance for Obama, who has made similar statements in previous campaign speeches, but mention of the issue in a stump speech, alongside more frequently discussed topics like Iraq and education, may give some clue to his priorities.

In our own Technology Voters' Guide, when asked whether he supports shielding telecommunications and Internet companies from lawsuits accusing them of illegal spying, Obama gave us a one-word response: "No."

(Democrats Hillary Clinton and John Edwards and Republican Ron Paul, for their part, came to the same conclusion in our survey.)

Barack Obama's audience at Dartmouth College was receptive but, compared to other political events in the state in the last week, relatively small.
(Credit: Declan McCullagh/News.com )

At the event, which was interrupted for about 10 minutes when a woman in the audience felt faint and was carried out on a stretcher, Obama also spent a few moments on another cause that's important to most of his competitors, regardless of party affiliation: the need to "break from the tyranny of fossil fuels" and the "addiction to foreign oil" in favor of a "green economy" built on alternative sources like solar, wind and biodiesel.

"We are going to save this planet, and you are going to help us do it because you are going to be voting today," he predicted.

Already 5 to 13 points ahead in the polls, depending on which ones you consult, Obama may not have needed to air the tried-and-true speech yet again. And thanks to springlike temperatures--a stark contrast from last week's subzero blitz--New Hampshire Secretary of State Bill Gardner reportedly predicted a record turnout of half a million voters before the polls close at 7 p.m. (and a few at 8 p.m.) EST Tuesday.
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