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EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Old 05-31-13, 06:51 PM
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EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

An ambulance that was taking a patient to the hospital was shut down by the EPA. Getting another ambulance caused a delay of 7 minutes. The patient died. The medical workers say that he would have died even without the delay. But if that was the case, then why did they even bother taking him to the hospital in the first place?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...bulance-delay/

The EPA and a seven-minute ambulance delay

May 31, 2013

A Wednesday shootout on the streets of Washington Highlands left a cop injured and a carjacking suspect dead. But before the suspect expired, he went on an unusual ambulance ride that involved moving him from one vehicle to another on the shoulder of Interstate 295. While this might appear to be another story of Fire and Emergency Medical Services dysfunction, the story is rather more complicated. As WUSA-TV explains, newer-model diesel engines are required by federal regulations to have emission-control features that, in some circumstances, require the motor to shut down for “regeneration” — a process in which the exhaust system burns off trapped soot. The need for regeneration can be unpredictable. The transfer to a second ambulance delayed 34-year-old Nathaniel McRae’s arrival at a hospital by seven minutes. FEMS insists the wait did not play a role in his death.
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Old 05-31-13, 06:54 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
An ambulance that was taking a patient to the hospital was shut down by the EPA. Getting another ambulance caused a delay of 7 minutes. The patient died. The medical workers say that he would have died even without the delay. But if that was the case, then why did they even bother taking him to the hospital in the first place?
That is where they are pronounced dead.
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Old 05-31-13, 06:56 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

I'm outraged?
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Old 05-31-13, 07:12 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

At no time does regeneration
require the motor to shut down
The heat of the motor is essential to the process.

I have a modern diesel car and about once a month it needs to "regenerate". But it does this while the car is moving. In fact the way it works is that it uses the engines heat to burn off the soot that collects in some kind of internal filter. It actually cranks itself up extra hot during this process and you notice a slight decline in power because of it. Anyway it does this automatically as needed.

I know a guy who is a fire chief and we talked about my diesel versus their new diesel fire engines. I was surprised to learn that on fire engines you can activate the regeneration whenever you want to. This is a benefit because it's better to do the regeneration during an extended long drive. I wish my car had this feature, because I hate it when I'm driving only a few miles and I notice that it has come on. I feel like when I park it at my destination it didn't get a chance to really do its thing.

Anyway, this ambulance doesn't make much sense. Why did it stop when regeneration requires the vehicle to be moving? My guess is that it has a regeneration activation button like the fire truck, and if you don't do it frequently enough the thing shuts down. That's shitty maintenance and not the EPA's fault.
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Old 05-31-13, 07:16 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
The medical workers say that he would have died even without the delay. But if that was the case, then why did they even bother taking him to the hospital in the first place?
You don't know much about stuff, do you?
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Old 05-31-13, 07:19 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

[Update, 7:50 p.m.: The Environmental Protection Agency last year modified its diesel emission regulations to specifically exempt emergency vehicles, though some equipment purchased prior to the change has not been retrofitted to avoid service interrupt. Furthermore, an EPA spokeswoman provided this statement: "A properly working and maintained vehicle should not shut down without adequate warning, and pollution control equipment does not have this general impact – as evidenced by the millions of vehicles on the road that have been operating with this technology for years."]
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Old 05-31-13, 07:19 PM
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Dammit Grundle! Learn something about some stuff already!

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You don't know much about stuff, do you?
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Old 05-31-13, 07:30 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You don't know much about stuff, do you?
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Old 06-01-13, 10:57 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Even if this actually happened in the way you are suggesting shouldn't you blame the owner of the ambulance business for selecting a faulty ambulance? Or the business that manufactured an ambulance that has such a shutdown built-in?
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Old 06-02-13, 07:58 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete View Post
Even if this actually happened in the way you are suggesting shouldn't you blame the owner of the ambulance business for selecting a faulty ambulance? Or the business that manufactured an ambulance that has such a shutdown built-in?
The ambulance was only faulty because the job creator who owns the ambulance company was denied his right to exercise free market capitalism to buy whatever kind of ambulance he wanted, instead of having to buy one approved by the SUV driving bureaucrats at the EPA.

Wow, I think I just Poe's Law-ed myself.
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Old 06-02-13, 08:39 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

The EPA is totally out of Control. That should have been obvious when they required gas cans be manufactured so that fumes could not escape. This tripled the price of gas cans.

At some point something is going to have to give. Most of the laws that effect our every day life are really regulations put in place by unelected bureaucrats. I am not saying nothing should be done but our current system is major league fucked up.
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Old 06-02-13, 09:02 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
The EPA is totally out of Control. That should have been obvious when they required gas cans be manufactured so that fumes could not escape. This tripled the price of gas cans.

At some point something is going to have to give. Most of the laws that effect our every day life are really regulations put in place by unelected bureaucrats. I am not saying nothing should be done but our current system is major league fucked up.
Those "unelected bureaucrats" are acting under the authority granted them by Congress. Their bureaucracies were created by acts of Congress: the EPA was created by Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. Their power can be rescinded by Congress at any time.

Get together with other people to petition your congressional delegation to shut down the EPA. If you get enough signatures, it will happen.

But there would be a price. According to the WHO, the number one cause of death in poor countries is lower respiratory infections. In rich countries, which have environmental laws, the death rate is two-thirds lower.
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Old 06-02-13, 09:19 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Those "unelected bureaucrats" are acting under the authority granted them by Congress. Their bureaucracies were created by acts of Congress: the EPA was created by Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. Their power can be rescinded by Congress at any time.

Get together with other people to petition your congressional delegation to shut down the EPA. If you get enough signatures, it will happen.

But there would be a price. According to the WHO, the number one cause of death in poor countries is lower respiratory infections. In rich countries, which have environmental laws, the death rate is two-thirds lower.
Its not just the EPA its the DOL, you name it. I am not saying they need to be shut down totally but they need to be put under a lot more control. As I said the gas can was an example of over reaching. You need only search the net and find many examples of people being on the wrong end of the EPA and other govt. entities.

Congress needs to make it more difficult for them to create regulations that do very little good at tremendous cost. Again the gas can is a prime example of an unnecessary regulation.
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Old 06-02-13, 09:42 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Again the gas can is a prime example of an unnecessary regulation.
If that's the best example of what EPA has done wrong, then I think they are doing a good job.
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Old 06-02-13, 09:52 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
But there would be a price. According to the WHO, the number one cause of death in poor countries is lower respiratory infections. In rich countries, which have environmental laws, the death rate is two-thirds lower.
What variable is more closely correlated? The wealth of the country? Or the environmental laws? If you took away the environmental laws, but the country remained wealthy, what would change?
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Old 06-02-13, 10:50 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
What variable is more closely correlated? The wealth of the country? Or the environmental laws? If you took away the environmental laws, but the country remained wealthy, what would change?
You expect me to do research to back up my assertions? In a grundle thread?
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Old 06-02-13, 11:06 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

How many gas cans are you people buying?
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Old 06-02-13, 12:53 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
How many gas cans are you people buying?
Seriously. I bought 2 about 8 years ago and haven't needed to since. The price is a complete non-issue. Also, I think I'm glad my shed isn't filled with fumes...what's the downside to that exactly?
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Old 06-02-13, 01:01 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

The fact that the gas can thing is constantly brought up again and again indicates to me that there aren't any other examples that people can turn to.
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Old 06-03-13, 01:17 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
That is where they are pronounced dead.
Oh. OK. Thanks!


.


Originally Posted by Pistol Pete View Post
Even if this actually happened in the way you are suggesting shouldn't you blame the owner of the ambulance business for selecting a faulty ambulance? Or the business that manufactured an ambulance that has such a shutdown built-in?
No, because it was mandated by the government.
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Old 06-03-13, 08:25 AM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Well, I can see I haven't been missing anything.
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Old 06-07-13, 09:32 PM
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Re: EPA shuts down ambulance taking patient to hospital

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
The fact that the gas can thing is constantly brought up again and again indicates to me that there aren't any other examples that people can turn to.
I bring it up because its a commodity that people can grasp how government regulation has effected its cost. But if we want to discuss some other things how about the 12 to 15% "EPA Compliance Cost" added to my Electric bill every month that is very suspect that the expense is justified.
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