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Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Old 05-14-13, 10:26 AM
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Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

United States Vice President Joe Biden believes it would be no problem to tax violent games. As part of a recent gun legislation strategy meeting with religious leaders, Biden said that an idea brought forth by Reverend Franklin Graham to tax violent media could be a smart move.

Participants in the behind-closed-doors session told Politico (via Game Politics) that Biden said there is "no restriction on the ability to do that; there's no legal reason why they couldn't" tax violent media.

He also said that that he would like to see a comprehensive study done regarding the impact of violent games and movies on young people.

Reverend Graham said that funds derived from the tax should go towards helping victims of gun violence, along with their families. Excise tax on violent media is nothing new, with multiple calls for such legislative action popping up since the Sandy Hook massacre and before the school shooting.

In a landmark 2011 decision, the Supreme Court sided with the video game industry, ruling that games are protected free speech under the first amendment.
Thankfully Graham's just a nut and Biden's an idiot and there actually is a legal impediment to taxing speech based upon content.
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Old 05-14-13, 10:34 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Why is it now commonplace to tax as a penalty?
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Old 05-14-13, 10:55 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by Timber View Post
Why is it now commonplace to tax as a penalty?
National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:07 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Who gives a shot. No one gives a shit that cigarettes are $10 a pack. I don't give a shit that a video game costs $5 more.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:09 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Who gives a shot.
Lots of people.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:14 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

I think the amount of people who play violent video games, watch violent tv shows and movies, and read violent books is far larger than the smoking populace.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:17 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

I understand that. I still don't care just like most people don't care that smokers and drinkers are taxed out the ass.

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Lots of people.
What is a rhetorical question?
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Old 05-14-13, 11:21 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

What I don't like about these vice taxes is that if it works, is it a success or a failure?

Suppose this tax actually happens. And suppose that video game, tv and movie production companies, over time, stop making certain products to avoid paying this tax.

Will people be all "Yay! we solved a problem! No more artistic depictions of violence!"
Or will they be all "Dammit, another source of revenue has dried up"
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Old 05-14-13, 11:27 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Who gives a shot. No one gives a shit that cigarettes are $10 a pack. I don't give a shit that a video game costs $5 more.
A) Games are constitutionally protected speech; your cigs aren't.

B) It's a bullshit comparison. This is a proposal to tax some speech based upon content. For it to be comparable to cigarettes, menthols would have to be taxed at a higher rate because gangbangers like Newports.

C) While the article focuses on video games, the statements concern "violent media" in general. That means they could put an extra $5 onto Stephen King novels and tickets for R-rated films as well.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:30 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I understand that. I still don't care just like most people don't care that smokers and drinkers are taxed out the ass.
Would you care if they added an "OS X Use Tax" that didn't affect Windows or Linux users?
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Old 05-14-13, 11:35 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

The biggest joke in that article is

funds derived from the tax should go towards helping victims of gun violence,
like gas taxes go to roads, SS funds only go to SS, etc
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Old 05-14-13, 11:41 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

This idea would be terrible even if it weren't blatantly unconstitutional. Back to the drawing board, Mr. Vice President.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:43 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
A) Games are constitutionally protected speech; your cigs aren't.

B) It's a bullshit comparison. This is a proposal to tax some speech based upon content. For it to be comparable to cigarettes, menthols would have to be taxed at a higher rate because gangbangers like Newports.

C) While the article focuses on video games, the statements concern "violent media" in general. That means they could put an extra $5 onto Stephen King novels and tickets for R-rated films as well.
Cigarettes are $7-10 a pack. For 20 cigarettes made from tobacco. It's outrageous but no one cares.

Alcoholic beverages are taxed at a higher rate than non-alcoholic beverages.

I don't like any of these taxes, but it's humorous when people start crying over new taxes while advocating for higher taxes on so-called "vices". I agree, it'd be better to just tax all entertainment.
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Old 05-14-13, 11:47 AM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Would you care if they added an "OS X Use Tax" that didn't affect Windows or Linux users?
I'm just raising the point that society accepts some taxes and freaks out over others. Cigarette taxes are probably like 1000% over the product cost. But I'd gather most wouldn't mind if they were raised even more. I don't buy violent video games. I don't give a shit. If I have to pay 50 cents more to buy a blu-ray and it goes to some unknown cause, so be it. Society has seen to it that consumers are pilfered right and left in the name of good causes.

I'm done. I have no interest in a protracted argument about taxation.
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Old 05-14-13, 12:32 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Instead of taxing video games to help the victims of gun violence, shouldn't he be taxing ammunition?
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Old 05-14-13, 01:12 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Terrible, ridiculous idea.
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Old 05-14-13, 01:24 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Cigarettes are $7-10 a pack. For 20 cigarettes made from tobacco.
Isn't your support for Obamacare predicated on the idea that uninsured people are driving your healthcare costs up? What's different about cigarette taxes?

I don't like any of these taxes, but it's humorous when people start crying over new taxes while advocating for higher taxes on so-called "vices". I agree, it'd be better to just tax all entertainment.
You don't see any significant difference between a tax on cigarettes and a tax on constitutionally protected expression?
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Old 05-14-13, 01:40 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

There isn't anything legally wrong with taxing a Constitutional Right. However, I would imagine there is strong enough lobby to block this idea.
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Old 05-14-13, 01:44 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Isn't your support for Obamacare predicated on the idea that uninsured people are driving your healthcare costs up? What's different about cigarette taxes?
Not all people die from smoking. Not all people die from obesity. However, obesity and it's complications kills far more people. Taxes on fattening food is not considered equivalent to taxes on tobacco.

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
You don't see any significant difference between a tax on cigarettes and a tax on constitutionally protected expression?
Tax all forms of entertainment, not just "violent" ones then. I could care less about this particular issue. I just find the outrage over new specialized taxes hypocritical.
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Old 05-14-13, 01:46 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Tax all forms of entertainment, not just "violent" ones then.
why should Pixar movies or Dora the Explorer video games become artificially more expensive when they have nothing to do with the issue at hand?
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Old 05-14-13, 01:55 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

They shouldn't. Why should all cigarettes be taxed when people can smoke in moderation and never get a disease?
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Old 05-14-13, 02:22 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
There isn't anything legally wrong with taxing a Constitutional Right. However, I would imagine there is strong enough lobby to block this idea.
I think the government could legally levy an across-the-board excise tax on books or video games (it'd be a bad idea but they could do it). But that's not what this proposal is. A tax based upon content is clearly unconstitutional.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
They shouldn't. Why should all cigarettes be taxed when people can smoke in moderation and never get a disease?
Because they can't and your claims are verging into the realm of anti-vaxxers and climate change denialism.
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Old 05-14-13, 02:36 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

Everyone that ever smoked a cigarette has gotten a disease or died because of it?

I think the government could legally levy an across-the-board excise tax on books or video games (it'd be a bad idea but they could do it). But that's not what this proposal is. A tax based upon content is clearly unconstitutional.
In PA, newspapers and magazines are not taxed but books are. But textbooks are not taxed. Is that taxation on content? Whats the difference between a book on American History bought at bookstore or a textbook on American History?
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Old 05-14-13, 02:43 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

We already tax entertainment. It's called sales tax.
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Old 05-14-13, 03:01 PM
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Re: Biden Agrees with Right Wing Christian Nutjob: Tax Violent Media

In states that have sales tax, sure.

For cigarettes in PA, people pay a flat $1.60 per pack tax PLUS the normal 6% sales tax. That's on top of the federal tax of $1.01 per pack.

What were you saying about a single tax on entertainment?

One of the arguments for cigarette taxes is that it will decrease smoking. Perhaps a tax on violent games will decrease the consumption of them as well. THat's what its all about, right? Protecting the children?
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