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Old 01-05-17, 02:50 PM   #2176
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

The CEO of a chain that underpays and mistreats workers is about to lead the Labor Department

https://thinkprogress.org/puzder-lab...c8c#.i70szcjl3

Johaunna Cromer never thought she would work at a fast food restaurant. A college graduate, trained psychologist, and former member of the Air Force, she said she used to believe fast food employees were mostly teenagers trying to supplement their allowance.

But in 2014, when her family moved to Asheville, North Carolina to be close to relatives, Cromer ended up taking a position as a manager at a Hardee’s restaurant near her home. Counseling jobs were hard to find, and she needed quick money to support her two children.

The position proved far more trying than she’d ever imagined.

“I learned how hard the work was,” she told ThinkProgress. “And I never thought they would treat people the way they treat people for fighting for what’s right.”

Almost immediately after starting the job, Cromer realized that her $7.25 an hour salary was not sufficient to pay her bills and support her children. She became active in the Fight for 15 movement — a national network of fast-food and other low-wage workers demanding a $15 an hour minimum wage and the right to form a union. She traveled across the country to participate in strikes and protests, gave televised interviews, and encouraged her coworkers to join the movement.

Eight months later, she was fired.

“I was making too much noise, and they were probably afraid of me putting Hardee’s name in a bad light,” she said, alleging that Hardee’s management pressured her coworkers into signing false statements about her workplace conduct.

Cromer says her termination is the product of an anti-union, anti-worker culture at CKE Restaurants, which operates Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. and whose CEO Andy Puzder was recently nominated by President-elect Donald Trump to lead the U.S. Department of Labor.

Puzder has made his career on the backs of low-paid fast food workers like Cromer, and he has spent the last 16 years overseeing a fast food chain notorious for violating basic wage and hour laws. A review of federal and state court documents and Labor Department inspections paint a picture of a corporate culture that values profit over worker welfare.

People employed by Puzder have sued for discrimination, filed class action lawsuits over the denial of overtime pay, and alleged that they were fired for protesting the chain’s low wages.

Labor law experts have also spoken out against Puzder’s practices. Paul Secunda, director of the Labor and Employment Law Program at Marquette University, told ThinkProgress that Puzder has taken advantage of the fact that fast food workers are a vulnerable population that is easy to abuse.

“They are usually at the bottom of the pay scale, they usually don’t have the sophistication to know their rights under the law, and it’s hard for them to be collective in their approach because they’re moving around so much,” he said. “It’s really easy to manipulate them and exploit them, and that’s what we’ve seen.”

“It would be hard to pick someone who is more anti-labor than this guy for the Labor Department,” he added. And those with first-hand experience with his policies, like Cromer, believe he will lead the country’s workers in a terrifying direction.

“If he can’t even care for his own company, what makes you think he can care for anything else?” Cromer asked.
A thickburger of legal complaints

Cromer said she has filed legal action against the company for her termination, and the litigation remains pending. Many other workers and ex-workers have sued Puzder’s restaurants as well.

In 2009, in response to litigation, CKE Restaurants agreed to treat general managers like hourly, non-exempt employees, entitling them to overtime pay. But the restaurant chain refused to offer back pay to the thousands of workers who had been illegally denied overtime, prompting another class action lawsuit.

“Imagine if you worked for me for ten years and we said, ‘Oh we’ve gotten it wrong. It turns out you were entitled to overtime,’” said Andy Graves, a California attorney who’s representing the managers in two ongoing class actions. “And you said, ‘What about the last ten years?’ And I said, ‘Nah, we’re just changing it going forward.’”

Jose Cubias, who sued the company in 2010, worked at Carl’s Jr. branches around Los Angeles for nearly 30 years, including five years as a general manager. He says he and every other general manager in the state were denied back pay for hundreds of hours of overtime they worked between 2005 and 2009. The company also forced them to say they were on vacation on days they were actually working in order to meet the company’s labor budget, and made them work up to 12-hour shifts without legally-required meal and rest breaks.

“By deliberately failing to pay its employees wages to which they are entitled, CKE avoided substantial expenses and thereby enriched itself at the expense of its employees,” said Cubias’ lawsuit, filed in California state court.

Even after the CKE-owned restaurants changed their policies and agreed to pay managers overtime, they continued to force them to perform unpaid, off-the-clock work outside the restaurant, like reporting to their superiors, tracking down missing employees, and making calls about equipment. Without litigation, Graves explained, many managers had no way to stand up for their rights under California labor law.

“These are people who have eighth-grade educations, they came to the U.S. as teenagers, they’ve done nothing but work for this fast food company for 30 years and the company kind of has them now,” he said. “They can’t do anything else. They’ve given their whole lives to learning how to run a Carl’s Jr., that’s what they do, so they’re exceptionally vulnerable in that way.”

CKE Restaurants did not respond to a request for comment about the ongoing litigation.
Direct liability in an already toxic industry

Graves, who represents fast food workers at several different chains, said the types of violations documented at CKE Restaurants are common in the industry. Though the records of the Labor Department’s inspections are not publicly available, a spokesperson for the Wage and Hour Division described to ThinkProgress some of the most egregious violations the agency documented at CKE-branded facilities.

In 2012, the department discovered that a Hardee’s franchise in Nashville, Tennessee required workers to punch out for breaks when they continued to work, and refused to pay them for those and other hours in violation of minimum wage and overtime laws. They were forced to pay more than $7,500 to 29 employees.

Another investigation of a Hardee’s franchise in Tallassee, Alabama in 2012 and 2013 found that the store failed to pay 19 employees for hours they worked beyond their scheduled hours. They were forced to pay them $2,400.

And while Puzder’s chains are frequent violators of workers’ rights, they don’t appear to be among the worst offenders. The government found violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act more than 60 percent of the times they inspected Carl’s Jr. and Hardee’s restaurants over the past seven years, according to a Bloomberg analysis of Labor Department data. Most national fast food chains had even higher violation rates, with only Jack in the Box, Pizza Hut, and Chick-fil-A ranking better than Puzder’s companies.

“CKE’s record of compliance on wage policies is among the best when compared to our industry peers,” boasted the company’s Executive Vice President & General Counsel in a statement to ThinkProgress. “Bloomberg BNA recently reported that CKE has a ‘fairly clean record’ following their exhaustive analysis.”

Yet the Bloomberg study found that fast food franchises violate their workers’ rights at alarming rates — in part because they operate like small businesses but are held to the same standards as large corporations.

“The franchise system is almost designed to create labor code violations,” Graves said, explaining that franchises operate without corporate legal departments or a human resources departments, but are under pressure to comply with state and federal law.

Puzder is a vocal proponent of franchising. A board member of the International Franchise Association, he has claimed that he and other CKE executives should not be held accountable for violations that occur at their franchises. This view has brought him into conflict with the Obama administration, which has pushed for joint-employer liability — a policy that makes CEOs like Puzder take responsibility for the actions of his franchises.

What makes Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. stand out is where the abuses occur. The violations did not only happen at franchises, where the company has less liability, but they also happened at sites CKE directly owns.

“The problems in the CKE cases are unusual,” Graves said about his ongoing overtime class action lawsuits. “Usually the reason we see poor treatment of workers has to do with franchisees, and not the actual company… The only thing that stands out about Carl’s Jr. is that the home office did it.”

A Labor Department investigation of corporate-owned branches in St. Louis, Missouri in 2006 and 2007 found that the company failed to properly calculate overtime pay for 456 workers, stiffing them a total of $58,001, which they had to pay in back wages.

A smaller investigation of a Hardee’s-owned location in Birmingham, Alabama between 2013 and 2015 found that the employer made illegal deductions that dropped employees below the minimum wage. They had to pay 20 employees a total of $2,000.
The fox in the hen house

The official mission of the Labor Department is to “improve working conditions; advance opportunities for profitable employment; and assure work-related benefits and rights.” But if Puzder is confirmed to run the agency, he will be in charge of enforcing a host of laws his own company has broken, in addition to other policies he has publicly opposed.

While presiding over a company that has been repeatedly fined and sued for violating existing minimum wage and overtime laws, Puzder has written op-eds and given countless interviews criticizing efforts to expand these benefits.

“Increasing the minimum wage is not the best solution,” he said on Fox News in May. “If we are going to increase the minimum wage at all, we’ve got to keep a lower minimum wage for entry-level workers, or these people are just going to be shut out of the workforce.” Even as a growing number of states and cities increase their minimum wages to $15 an hour, he said he believes it should be no higher than $9.

After President Obama signed an executive order making an additional 4.2 million workers eligible for overtime pay, Puzder wrote a scathing guest post for Forbes calling the new rule a “harsh reality” for businesses.

“As with the Obama Administration’s other efforts to regulate their way to economic prosperity, it will not deliver as promised,” he said. “In practice, this means reduced opportunities, bonuses, benefits, perks and promotions.”

Puzder has also railed against President Obama’s joint-employer doctrine, which holds CEOs like him accountable for labor abuses committed by franchisees or contractors. He warned it would create “a lose-lose scenario” and “essentially destroy the business model.”

Graves, among others, has a cynical view of Puzder’s appointment. “It’s like putting the fox in charge of the hen house,” he said. “From our point of view, its very concerning.”

As Labor Secretary, Puzder could make sweeping changes impacting the nation’s workforce without ever having to go through Congress. He could scale back the department’s investigations into wage theft and other workplace violations, and ramp up investigations into union activity. He could make it more difficult for laid-off workers to collect unemployment insurance. He could weigh in against workers in lawsuits before the National Labor Relations Board or any federal court in the nation. He could change the government’s official view on who is classified as an employee versus who is an independent contractor, with widespread implications for workplace rights. He could change how many immigrants on temporary work visas are allowed into the United States.

Ironically, many of these changes would adversely impact the very people who voted Trump into office, Secunda predicted.

“The white working class who elected Trump are about to get screwed to a degree that is hard to fathom."
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Old 01-05-17, 03:04 PM   #2177
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Seems qualified - as the exact opposite of who should be in that position. So par for the course for Trump!
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Old 01-15-17, 09:59 AM   #2178
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

A retailer of high end running gear, Fleet Feet announced they are raising the minimum wage to $20 an hour by 2021. It explains why, ie. recruiting, retention, etc. They are implementing it on "roughly" 50 employees.

What I don't like is what they don't say.

It said the pay floor is $11 an hour but what were those 50 making before the raise?
How many full-timers do you have? 50? 51? 151?
So what percentage of your employees does that 50 represent?
Are any of the other benefits being reduced or changed to compensate for the raise?

D&C Fleet Feet

Will be interesting to see if other retailers follow suit. Right now all we have seen is the national trend of retailers closing. Sear, MACY's, KMArt, etc. Some of our smaller, local retailers have struggled. My local ACE hardware closed.
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Old 01-15-17, 12:12 PM   #2179
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
A retailer of high end running gear, Fleet Feet announced they are raising the minimum wage to $20 an hour by 2021. It explains why, ie. recruiting, retention, etc. They are implementing it on "roughly" 50 employees.

What I don't like is what they don't say.

It said the pay floor is $11 an hour but what were those 50 making before the raise?
How many full-timers do you have? 50? 51? 151?
So what percentage of your employees does that 50 represent?
Are any of the other benefits being reduced or changed to compensate for the raise?

D&C Fleet Feet

Will be interesting to see if other retailers follow suit. Right now all we have seen is the national trend of retailers closing. Sear, MACY's, KMArt, etc. Some of our smaller, local retailers have struggled. My local ACE hardware closed.
As noted Fleet Feer is a high end "boutique" store aimed at a specific Customer that will spend money on their sport/hobby.

Their products have huge margins as they (mainly) sell at full retail.

I doubt it would "force" other retailers to do the same. They are not in competition for the same employees as those you mention. And likely need to pay that for the few qualified in that labor pool.

I'm fine with them paying what they want. Their business.
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Old 01-21-17, 08:08 AM   #2180
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

A local $1 movie theater is closing and is citing rising costs for employees as one of the reasons.

As you know NY instituted a pretty healthy minimum wage schedule to get people up to $15 per hour. Several places that were teetering on the fence between profitability and loss have closed up shop.

Now to be perfectly fair, you can't just blame the rising minimum wage and I will be the first to admit that. The place is in the suburbs but is on a bus route. The place is always packed with people, but if you go on weekends, the people it's packed with you don't want to be around. Too many teenagers and even young adults hanging out all night, starting fights, making noise, even breaking into cars. Generally scaring away people who just wanted to see the movie. My parents loved the place but got so they wouldn't go at night. The theater tried hiring more and more workers as well as security for the parking lot. So the cost of employment far outweighed the revenues coming in.

So if you want your local movie theater to close down, talk on your phone, get in fights, break into cars in the parking lot. The place has to hire so many people to keep and eye on these jackwagons they eventually just say fuck it and close up.

On the other side of the coin, the main movie theater has just gone to all luxury lounger recliners with reserved seating. So now they have to have additional people in the box office because everyone has to choose their seat which takes much longer. I'm not sure how good that is long term. The theaters only seat about half the people and you need at least one extra person selling tickets all the time. The seats are fucking awesome so hopefully it will pay off. Just a few miles down the road, I'd hate to see it close down.
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Old 02-19-17, 08:06 AM   #2181
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

A couple articles in this mornings paper on the effect of NY's higher minimum wage is/will have on small business and non-profits. People tend to frame the debate from either the worker perspective or the McDonald's and Wal Mart's of the world. I included the entire article and spoilered for size

Small business.

Spoiler:
A natural foods restaurant seems like an unlikely place for ground zero in the increasingly bitter battle over a rising state minimum wage. Despite a common perception as a haven for progressive thought, a purveyor of homemade pesto sauces and other wholesome dishes is steamed by the minimum wage hike.
As Eliot Fiks and Stacey Gould, co-owners of Whole in the Wall Foods in Binghamton, examine their expenses and revenues, they have but one choice in the face of rising personnel costs: reduce hours, cutting a day from from their four-day-a-week schedule.
They’re not alone. Others across the state are telling stories of how they will be extra cautious in adding staff as the minimum wage has only just begun its slow creep upward. Not only will customers have one less day available to eat or shop at some businesses, they could potentially notice deteriorating service because of a lack of staffing.
One month after the first phase of the upstate minimum wage increase from $9 to $9.70, small businesses are beginning to gauge the full impact of the costs.
Colleen Griffin-Underhill, store manager at Hart’s Local Grocers in Rochester, pays above the minimum wage, but could see a scenario developing in the future in which she may have to trim staff as New York’s higher minimum wage phases in.
“We may reconfigure positions so that lower level employees take on more responsibilities, and we may have fewer entry level positions,” Griffin-Underhill said. “Raising prices is not an option. We can’t do that to stay competitive. Adjusting hours is on the table if we need to keep our prices and pay a fair wage to our employees.”
The minimum wage hike’s effect on hiring decisions could potentially make or break a business like Upstate Brewing Company, a brewery in Elmira that has three employees.
“It will cause me to raise prices across the board and to hold off on hiring additional help,” said Mark Neumann, Upstate Brewing Co. owner.
While major businesses have more leeway to streamline processes, rely on automation or create kiosks to reduce employment costs, many smaller, local businesses haven’t that option on a far tighter budget.
Fiks, while sympathetic to the income inequality argument, says the patchwork minimum wages across the nation leave people like him at a competitive disadvantage. His commercial pesto production operation is subject to New York’s high minimum, while a competitor six miles south across the Pennsylvania border continues along with the same personnel costs as before.
“If the minimum wage is raised in one state and not the other, one state may suffer and businesses might move,” Fiks said. “People may shop more in Pennsylvania because prices may be lower.”
The minimum wage is currently set at $9.70 in Upstate New York. In New York City, minimum wage is currently at $11 for employees of businesses with 11 or more employees and $10.50 for businesses with 10 or fewer employees. The minimum wage for workers in Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester counties is $10.
The minimum wage will reach $15 at the end of 2018 for employees of New York City businesses with 11 or more employees, the end of 2019 for employees of New York City businesses with 10 or fewer employees, and the end of 2021 workers in Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester counties respectively. The minimum wage in the rest of the state will increase by 70 cents each year until the wage reaches $12.50 on Dec. 31, 2020, at which point the Director of the Division of Budget, in consultation with the Department of Labor, will create a new schedule for raising the minimum wage to $15.
Twenty-one states have a $7.25 per hour minimum wage, including Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Texas.
The five cities with the highest minimum wages are all on the West Coast. The highest minimum wage is $15.35 in the municipal area near the Seattle-Tacoma, Washington airport. The minimum wage in Seattle is $15 per hour. Washington, D.C. is the East Coast city with the highest minimum wage — $12.50 — as of July.


Non-profits

Spoiler:
Not-for-profit administrators, already pinched by tight budgets, are finding the minimum wage increase is adding to the daily turmoil of operating an organization dependent on dwindling government grants, donations and a pushback from clients as they try to raise fees to cover the higher wage expense.
Most community-based nonprofits are locked into federal, state and local contracts that will not honor the increased employee costs that the wage increase brings, meaning that nonprofits would have to use or raise charitable dollars to subsidize the increase, said Doug Sauer, chief executive of the New York Council of Nonprofits. Most don’t have these funds to allocate so they cut back on staffing and services.
“It should be noted that this wage increase is also alongside increases in workers comp and unemployment rates, and raises at the state level of what constitutes an exempt employee,” Sauer said. “There is a triple if not quadruple whammy on mandated employer costs.”
As of now, the state government does not fully compensate nonprofits that they contract with for additional mandated costs of doing business, and most government contracts with nonprofits also do not pay the full cost of nonprofits’ services, Sauer said. There is a significant effort underway that the state does compensate the additional cost of doing business.
Because of under-compensation, nonprofits either lose money on state contracts or they have to find other sources to subsidize the services the government is contracting for, Sauer said.
“A vast majority of local nonprofits operate on a shoestring and try to make do what little they have,” Sauer said. “We may be approaching a time where more and more nonprofits simply refuse to do business with the state because they can’t afford to.”
Some nonprofits may choose to raise fees for their services.
“But not all are fee-based and raising fees means that there will be more people not being able to access their services,” Sauer said. “So, more human needs go unmet, or for arts and cultural organizations, less people benefit from what they offer.”
Ultimately, the increase in minimum wage harms the nonprofit industry, Sauer said.
“From nonprofits being a business that needs to be solvent, it threatens the viability and sustainability of many unless government, philanthropy and donors are willing to invest in the nonprofit workforce,” Sauer said. “Nonprofits already have a problem with recruiting and keeping qualified staff, who easily go to work for government, schools and the private sector to better support themselves and their families.”
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Old 03-02-17, 11:20 AM   #2182
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

This is like something out of a nineteenth century labor dispute -- police acting under orders of a corporation to intimidate workers and labor organizers.

Quote:
Police claimed they had “authorization from the president of McDonald’s” to arrest protesting fast food workers, according to a civil rights lawsuit filed on Wednesday against the city of Memphis, Tennessee.

The suit alleges that local police engaged in a “widespread and illegal campaign of surveillance and intimidation” against a local chapter of the Fight for $15 fast-food worker organization as it campaigned for an increase in the minimum wage and union rights for fast food workers.

Officers followed organizers home after meetings, ordered workers not to sign petitions and blacklisted organizers from city hall, according to the suit. They claimed to have been authorized by McDonald’s, the world’s largest fast food chain, and in one incident a McDonald’s franchisee joined police in tailing protesters.

The suit alleges that a campaign of harassment began after Memphis workers participated in a nationwide day of protest on 4 September 2014. Since then, police officers have repeatedly threatened workers with arrest during protests, at one point telling them they had “authorization from the president of McDonald’s to make arrests”. On “multiple occasions” officers “seemed to take direction from McDonald’s”, the complaint charges.

Last November, police officers stepped behind the counter of a fast-food restaurant to prevent workers from signing petitions calling for better working conditions, the protesters’ lawyers claim. They also allege that officers have enforced local permit laws on the predominantly black workers in the Fight for $15, while allowing protests by mostly white crowds to continue unabated.

The suit, brought against the city, Mayor James Strickland and the police director, Michael Rallings, alleges that the police have violated a 1978 consent decree that banned political surveillance following revelations the department had spied on civil rights activists, war protesters and other “radicals” for years.

McDonald’s was not immediately available for comment. The Memphis mayor’s office declined to comment on “pending litigation”.

The suit, filed in US district court for the western district Tennessee by the Fight for $15 mid-south organizing committee, alleges the Memphis police department [MPD] engaged in “improper and illegal surveillance tactics aimed at having a chilling effect on the freedom of speech and the right to assemble or associate”.

In February, Fight for $15 held a “teach-in” about Andy Puzder, the fast-food CEO who was, at the time, Donald Trump’s pick to be labor secretary.

According to the complaint, four unmarked cars and a patrol car showed up outside the teach-in and followed an organizer at the meeting’s conclusion. When an organizer asked one of the officers why he was being followed, the officer replied: “We’re just trying to make sure everyone stays safe.”

Jerry Martin, an attorney for the mid-south organizing committee, said: “The MPD is engaging in an intentional and illegal campaign to intimidate workers in an effort to prevent them from exercising their constitutional right to speak out ... We’ve read about such behavior in history books, but unfortunately, in Memphis, intimidation and harassment of protesters is not just a thing of the past.”

Ashley Cathey, a Church’s Chicken worker and member of the Fight for $15 national organizing committee, said: “They’re trying to stop us from speaking out, but even though it’s riskier, we know we have a right to protest and we’re not going to be intimidated ... Our Fight for $15 is changing the country and it’s the Memphis police department that’s going to have to change along with it.”
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Old 03-02-17, 11:30 AM   #2183
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

And in good 'ol Memphis, TN.

#notsurprised
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Old 03-02-17, 04:03 PM   #2184
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Quote:
Last November, police officers stepped behind the counter of a fast-food restaurant to prevent workers from signing petitions calling for better working conditions, the protesters’ lawyers claim. They also allege that officers have enforced local permit laws on the predominantly black workers in the Fight for $15, while allowing protests by mostly white crowds to continue unabated.
This is ridiculous. Government officials should not be on private property, arresting employees (exceptions apply of course like doing damage to private property, etc., but I haven't read anything this happened while simply signing forms). McD's can hire their own security and escort off the premises, but that's as far as their enforcement should reach. I say, should. How the local PD got involved is insane and needs to be investigated by the state AG.
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Old 03-06-17, 05:23 PM   #2185
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Quote:
The struggle to raise the minimum wage has now taken another blow, with yet another fast food chain replacing flesh and blood workers with automated kiosks.

The fast food restaurant Wendy’s has announced that they will be installing self-service kiosks in over 1,000 locations according to the Associated Press. Wendy’s chief information officer David Trimm says that this move is coming about in order to reduce labor costs. He says this will decrease customer wait times, as well as increase production levels in the kitchen area.

“They are looking to improve their automation and their labor costs, and this is a good way to do it,” said Darren Tristano, vice president with Technomic, a food-service research and consulting firm. “They are also trying to enhance the customer experience. Younger customers prefer to use a kiosk.”


“This move puts them at the forefront of the kiosk and tech movement,” Tristano added.

Reportedly, larger volume restaurants will be prioritized when the installation of the machines will begin.

It wasn’t long ago that McDonald’s also announced that they had taken measures to circumvent labor costs brought on by the rising tide of wage increase protests and laws. Just last November, McDonalds rolled out self-service kiosks of their own.

With many cities and states soon to adopt the $15 an hour wage hike, it is expected that you will begin finding more kiosks in cities such as these as time goes on, or so businessmen like former CEO of McDonalds Ed Rinsi says, as he wrote in a guest post on Forbes about the subject.

As he put it when fast food chains began rolling out automation to counter wage hikes, “I told you so.”
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02...ervice-kiosks/
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Old 03-06-17, 06:47 PM   #2186
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

I've seen those kioks at Jack in the Box a year or 2 ago, maybe longer. It's inevitable. It doesn't even matter if the minimum wage goes up, the cost of those kioks will only go DOWN over time, and as many employees as possible will be replaced by them.
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Old 03-06-17, 07:44 PM   #2187
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

I've been hearing about Automated McDonalds since the late 90's. The reason we haven't seen them become popular, is that it's still cheaper to have a person doing the work. Plus, the amount of behind-the-scenes industry is quite large. There are going to be some very happy engineering firms proving MRO services on tens-of-thousands of machines. I can't imagine the chains will be able to manage the MRO within the next 20-30 years. Too complicated. Especially considering franchising agreements and whatnot.

Also, those are 'ordering kiosks'. They're barely replacing a single shift at the busiest of restaurants. Just because the USPS has those self-service kiosks doesn't mean people use them. This is all like Amazon's drone delivery. Future innovation stuff. Maybe in twenty or fifty years. And in twenty years, everything will be different anyways. So it's hard to be concerned about it.
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Old 03-06-17, 08:00 PM   #2188
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

^^ The trend will be toward phone apps. Several places already support that for ordering and paying. (Taco Bell, many pizza places, etc..)
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Old 03-06-17, 09:10 PM   #2189
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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^^ The trend will be toward phone apps. Several places already support that for ordering and paying. (Taco Bell, many pizza places, etc..)
Oh yea that's true. Still not going to replace cashier's shift. Not everyone likes to self-checkout at the grocery store. At best, it will replace "a" shift or two. Automated cooking and dispensing is a long time away. Then you have to consider the industry behind the technology.

I just don't see this as a threat. Though fast-food automation gets attention every time something happens.
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Old 03-06-17, 09:16 PM   #2190
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

I much prefer ordering my food through a machine than a human. I can tell the machine exactly what I want, it will understand me and tell me how much it costs, and send that order to the kitchen to have it prepared. Less of a chance for a fuck-up.

When I order at places, I try to be as clear and concise as possible, and they still get befuddled trying to enter it into the system. Anything beyond "A super-sized number five" sends them into a panic attack. And it kind of sucks because I know their systems are computerized and I, the consumer, have no idea how the ordering information goes in, so it's like trying to explain to your grandmother over the phone howto program her DVR.
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Old 03-07-17, 07:07 AM   #2191
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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I've seen those kioks at Jack in the Box a year or 2 ago, maybe longer. It's inevitable. It doesn't even matter if the minimum wage goes up, the cost of those kioks will only go DOWN over time, and as many employees as possible will be replaced by them.
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Oh yea that's true. Still not going to replace cashier's shift. Not everyone likes to self-checkout at the grocery store. At best, it will replace "a" shift or two. Automated cooking and dispensing is a long time away. Then you have to consider the industry behind the technology.

I just don't see this as a threat. Though fast-food automation gets attention every time something happens.
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I much prefer ordering my food through a machine than a human. I can tell the machine exactly what I want, it will understand me and tell me how much it costs, and send that order to the kitchen to have it prepared. Less of a chance for a fuck-up.

When I order at places, I try to be as clear and concise as possible, and they still get befuddled trying to enter it into the system. Anything beyond "A super-sized number five" sends them into a panic attack. And it kind of sucks because I know their systems are computerized and I, the consumer, have no idea how the ordering information goes in, so it's like trying to explain to your grandmother over the phone howto program her DVR.
I think automation in some form is inevitable. As the technology becomes more widespread the costs come down and it will be even more appealing. However if you are raising the cost of live workers at an accelerated rate, it will only make the break even point on the cost of technology hit sooner. So it wouldn't affect the possibility of it. But raising the wage rapidly certainly won't do anything to slow down the adoption of it.
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Old 04-17-17, 06:25 PM   #2192
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

About a year ago:



Last week:

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Old 04-17-17, 06:34 PM   #2193
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Correlation =/= causation
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Old 04-17-17, 08:41 PM   #2194
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Correlation =/= causation
Well whatever Cuomo is doing it's not working. NY is down close to 2000 in population according to the last census.

There is talk he wants to run for President in 2020 so he is heavily pushing the progressive pet projects; minimum wage, free college tuition, sanctuary cities, gun laws etc. The results have not been good in turning around NY's loss of population, in fact it has gotten steadily worse.
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Old 04-18-17, 09:30 AM   #2195
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Nothing to do with the ever skyrocketing price of real estate there?
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Old 04-18-17, 11:16 AM   #2196
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Well whatever Cuomo is doing it's not working. NY is down close to 2000 in population according to the last census.
I assume you mean census estimate since there's only been one full census since 2000, and that was seven years ago, before Cuomo became governor. But even the census estimate doesn't back up your claim.

New York population in 2000: 18,976,457

New York population estimate for 2016: 19,745,289

That is 1900 less than 2015, but nowhere close to 2000.
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Old 04-18-17, 03:25 PM   #2197
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Nothing to do with the ever skyrocketing price of real estate there?
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
I assume you mean census estimate since there's only been one full census since 2000, and that was seven years ago, before Cuomo became governor. But even the census estimate doesn't back up your claim.

New York population in 2000: 18,976,457

New York population estimate for 2016: 19,745,289

That is 1900 less than 2015, but nowhere close to 2000.
I am just repeating what was in the paper recently. I don't remember the specifics. I will try and find the article. They quoted a loss of 1900+, I rounded to 2000. They broke it down by county, which ones lost, which ones gained and by how much.

Actually the real estate prices upstate are very reasonable and that is where we are losing the population. It is the high property taxes which consistently rate among the highest in the country which drive people away. Anytime you see the assorted lists on the internet. High costs of living, great places to retire to, etc., we rate pretty low on any of them.
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Old 04-18-17, 03:31 PM   #2198
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

That's what big city politicians just don't get. You cannot continually tax your middle class. They will leave. You have to show some kind of value when taxes are repeatedly increased for people to stay. If not, there's no point in paying high taxes and getting nothing in return.
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Old 04-18-17, 05:17 PM   #2199
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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That's what big city politicians just don't get. You cannot continually tax your middle class. They will leave. You have to show some kind of value when taxes are repeatedly increased for people to stay. If not, there's no point in paying high taxes and getting nothing in return.


Yeah, like in Europe. High taxes get you healthcare, time off from work with pay, living wage, 1st class transportation, etc.

If only we could be more like them in that respect. Oh, wait, it's socialism!



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Old 04-18-17, 05:24 PM   #2200
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

I'm not entirely against socialism.
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