Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Old 03-30-13, 11:38 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Thread Starter
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,707
The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Gasoline prices remain high for a number of reasons, but the main reason is that there is a global market and global demand continues to increase.

Why do legislators and pundits keep telling us that increasing domestic oil production will decrease gasoline prices? And why do Americans buy into this obvious fallacy, over and over again?

In 2012 Republican presidential candidates promised to dramatically decrease gas prices by increasing oil production. Bachmann even declared that she would bring back $2 oil. Did they plan to nationalize oil resources to accomplish this feat? No, of course not...they were just being dumb or dishonest (take your pick).

Why Abundant Oil Hasn't Cut Gasoline Prices at BusinessWeek.com

High Gas Prices Persist Despite US Oil Boom at NBCNews.com

The bottom line: U.S. refiners of gasoline and other fuel are increasingly going after global market share rather than selling to the home market.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-30-13, 11:56 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,706
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Confirmation bias. If you tell people what they already believe, they will accept what you tell them without questioning it. People are also more willing to accept what they've heard many times before.

Between the two biases, people don't question it when they're told that running a pipeline from Canadian oil fields to a seaport on the Gulf of Mexico will bring down the price of gas. They know that if we just extract more oil, it will bring down the pump price of gas in their town.
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 10:45 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,200
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

It's the same reason pundits talk about the evil rich, the evil corporations, the degenerate gays, the lazy unemployed, the gun confiscating liberals, the gun loving conservatives, the immigrants taking our jobs, etc. It rallies the base. Truth doesn't matter so much when you are just trying to spur people to action.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 10:48 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,916
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

I wish the public was as well aware about the US exporting fuel than it is about "drill baby drill".
PopcornTreeCt is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 11:28 AM
  #5  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,192
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

The bottom line: U.S. refiners of gasoline and other fuel are increasingly going after global market share rather than selling to the home market.
Unfortunately, this is true about almost every product US Corporations manufacture. Food, paper, gas, etc. You name it...we export it and have the balls and indecency to re-import it at a higher price to Americans.

And then they come back and say they have to "compete" with foreign wages or they will go broke...and have to downsize American workers.

Eventually, America will be financially unviable to live in. This is becoming clear at an exponential rate.

1) Living overseas and working for a US Corporation won't be so uncommon.

2) The US will have all the low-income citizens (and their large families) who can't afford to move overseas, or who just don't believe in it and are comfortable with being entertained with reality tv shows and eating 3-5x a day at Taco Bell and McDs.

3) The US will also have the extremely rich, who will be living in fortress-like communities, to protect them from the lowest-income workers who are paying the high taxes for their massive wealth and government corruption (city and federal). These communities will mostly contain the politicians and corporate execs.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 12:49 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 7,346
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

People are brainwashed...conditioned...to except the high gas prices are the new norm much like unemployment at 8% is the new norm.

Example...a few days ago our local media was covering "current gas prices" and was just giddy that prices went down a whole 4 cents to around $3.49!!. Seriously they were happy comparing now to last year as if it were some huge difference and drop. Never mind the fact they have never brought it up; once it was actually below $2.50. And never mind the fact that when it did get high under Bush it was hurting the poor and middleclass and just how hard it was to make ends meet. pparently it's not hurting anyone now.

And something else you haven't seen or brought up...Oil Profits. Remember when the media brought those up all the time under Bush or when Obama was campaigning....not a peep now. Record oil profits were once bad but not anymore....maybe that's because it also means record tax revenue for the Goverment.
K&AJones is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 12:55 PM
  #7  
X
Administrator
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,684
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

I don't see domestic drilling often advocated because it would lower prices (although one might take a look at what happens to prices when countries such as Saudi Arabia announce they're going to pump an extra couple million barrels a day.) It's primarily promoted as a national security issue by not relying on oil that can be shut off and not funding countries that seek to harm us as well as a balance of trade issue.
X is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 01:18 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,706
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

I've said before that we ought to leave our oil in the ground as long as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela are willing to sell us their for so cheap. When demand from the BRIC countries drives the price up past a few hundred dollars a barrel, then we should start drilling. We'll be driving around in cars while most of the world is back to bicycles.
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 01:45 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lower Gum Curve
Posts: 18,903
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dAkxR9T01pw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Jason is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 01:47 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 17,006
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Yeah we should just stop drilling at all. Seems like a good idea to import all of our oil, especially from unstable Muslim countries.
Rockmjd23 is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 01:59 PM
  #11  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di SalÚ
Posts: 32,361
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by K&AJones View Post
People are brainwashed...conditioned...to except the high gas prices are the new norm much like unemployment at 8% is the new norm.
Who has been brainwashed that 8% unemployment is "the new norm?"
wendersfan is online now  
Old 03-31-13, 02:13 PM
  #12  
X
Administrator
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,684
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I've said before that we ought to leave our oil in the ground as long as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela are willing to sell us their for so cheap. When demand from the BRIC countries drives the price up past a few hundred dollars a barrel, then we should start drilling. We'll be driving around in cars while most of the world is back to bicycles.
I'd like to think that could work, but sometimes you can pour out so much money holding onto assets that you end up having to give up the assets anyway. And if there's a substitute found for that asset during the time you're holding onto it, it will lose substantial value. Think how well cornering the market on buggy whips would have worked, and even better, if you went bankrupt in the process. Not to mention that if the rest of the world runs out of oil we'll just sell our oil to the rest of the world and it will cost us the same as it does everywhere else.
X is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 03:17 PM
  #13  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,582
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Gasoline prices remain high as retaliation for the murder of Osama Bin Laden.

And it's Bush's fault, not Obama's.
creekdipper is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 03:48 PM
  #14  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by K&AJones View Post

And something else you haven't seen or brought up...Oil Profits. Remember when the media brought those up all the time under Bush or when Obama was campaigning....not a peep now. Record oil profits were once bad but not anymore....maybe that's because it also means record tax revenue for the Goverment.
How much of this tax revenue is the government actually getting, though? The tax code has holes big enough to drive an oil tanker through, and the companies have accountants and lawyers who are able to take advantage of all of them.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 03:51 PM
  #15  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,192
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Income Taxes from corporations are at an all-time low, but I think gas tax is a different thing. Could be wrong, but I think the US Government is a little pissy-er on getting this tax.

In any case, GMO Gasoline.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 06:54 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
BKenn01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Big Blue Nation!
Posts: 4,497
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Yea, I think State and Federal taxes have a lot to do with the high price.
BKenn01 is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 08:42 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,916
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by K&AJones View Post
People are brainwashed...conditioned...to except the high gas prices are the new norm much like unemployment at 8% is the new norm.

Example...a few days ago our local media was covering "current gas prices" and was just giddy that prices went down a whole 4 cents to around $3.49!!. Seriously they were happy comparing now to last year as if it were some huge difference and drop. Never mind the fact they have never brought it up; once it was actually below $2.50. And never mind the fact that when it did get high under Bush it was hurting the poor and middleclass and just how hard it was to make ends meet. pparently it's not hurting anyone now.

And something else you haven't seen or brought up...Oil Profits. Remember when the media brought those up all the time under Bush or when Obama was campaigning....not a peep now. Record oil profits were once bad but not anymore....maybe that's because it also means record tax revenue for the Goverment.
Oil profits are still talked about just not so much in mainstream. You'd think Fox News would pick up the slack and talk about sky high oil profits - oh wait.
PopcornTreeCt is offline  
Old 03-31-13, 09:20 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
BKenn01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Big Blue Nation!
Posts: 4,497
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
Oil profits are still talked about just not so much in mainstream. You'd think Fox News would pick up the slack and talk about sky high oil profits - oh wait.
Wait I thought the problem was supply and demand. Or is that the case now that Obama is in charge?......
BKenn01 is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 10:39 AM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,916
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Wait I thought the problem was supply and demand. Or is that the case now that Obama is in charge?......
It's never been about supply and demand. That's what the articles in the OP are specifically mentioning.
PopcornTreeCt is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 11:05 AM
  #20  
Moderator
 
story's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hope.
Posts: 8,256
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

I once had a friend who posited gas prices got higher once pay-at-the-pump got popular. People weren't going into gas stations to buy all that junk food when they paid their bills so stations started making up for it at the pump. Made some sense in 2003, but ten years later I don't know. Thoughts on that one?
story is online now  
Old 04-01-13, 12:51 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
BKenn01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Big Blue Nation!
Posts: 4,497
Re: The Low Gasoline Price Delusion

Originally Posted by dogmatica View Post
I once had a friend who posited gas prices got higher once pay-at-the-pump got popular. People weren't going into gas stations to buy all that junk food when they paid their bills so stations started making up for it at the pump. Made some sense in 2003, but ten years later I don't know. Thoughts on that one?
I am a Buyer for a 70 plus C-store chain. Have been in the industry for 27 years. I see P&L statements, the net after CC fees is around .06 per gallon. Independent operators are likely breaking even. It is not your local gas station who is ripping you off. Taxes are around 15% of the cost.
BKenn01 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.