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Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Califor

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Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Califor

Old 03-26-13, 01:13 AM
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Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Califor

California's recent increase in income tax is retroactive, which means that even though it was passed at the end of 2012, it applies to income that had been earned earlier in the year. This is an ex post facto law, which is prohibited by Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution.

The following was written by a business owner who says he is fleeing California because of its violation of the Constitution.

And he happens to be a Democrat.


http://pandodaily.com/2013/03/25/bec...de-california/

Because of asset seizures, I am starting my new company outside California

By Bryan Goldberg

March 25, 2013

Today was a bad day. After meeting with my tax accountant, I am now cutting a very large check to the State of California, all of which resulted from Proposition 30 and the “retroactive tax” that was levied on my 2012 income.

This despite the fact that I already paid my 2012 taxes back in September.


While the law stipulates that I must surrender this money, I refuse to acknowledge this as a tax at all. This is not a tax. This is an asset seizure plain and simple. The term “retroactive tax” is a despicable euphemism. It is no different than when Hugo Chavez used the benign-sounding “nationalize” to describe his seizure of private property in Venezuela.

Now before I go any further, let me tell you what I am not.

I am not a Tea Party member. I am not even a Republican. Twice I have voted for Barack Obama, and I was supportive of his tax compromise earlier this year. I am not a person who opposes paying taxes, even higher ones. I am a very reasonable person who respects the great opportunity that America has given to me.

But there is a very clear and unambiguous line between taxes — regardless of how high they are — and asset seizures. The State of California has taken money from me. Money that I already earned and paid taxes on, and I will not tolerate this act of theft.


So what am I doing about it, other than speaking up?

Well, I am moving my new company — which is now closing a round of venture funding from world-class investors — to the East Coast. Because my last company created almost 200 jobs, most of which were in San Francisco, this is not good news for the State of California.

As I write this, I am hiring people on the East Coast who might otherwise have been hired in California. Some have already been hired. My California employees will be relocating to New York by early next year.

I will also be leaving California next year and de-establishing residency to be with my new company. No more 13.3 percent of my income for you, California. How does 0 percent sound? That sounds good to me.

Now, to be clear, my new company will be in the Media space, and there are plenty of business reasons why I am starting it outside of California. In my opinion, New York is a better place to start this company. But make no mistake: California’s seizure of my personal assets is a big reason why I am moving.

Similarly, the state’s constant battering of successful startups is another factor. Consider the outrageous retraction and “back-taxing” that took place recently with the Small Business Tax.

Some people will argue that voters supported this “retroactive tax.” That means nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is exactly why the Founding Fathers of the United States completely opposed direct democracy. Because it often leads to mob rule. If “majority rule” were a fair reason to seize assets, then Zimbabwe’s farm seizure laws would be totally kosher. We called it “mob rule” when they did it, and this is absolutely no different.

So why am I speaking up? Why am I risking the ire of readers and potentially besmirching my reputation? Because somebody needs to stand up and demonstrate the real impact of this.

People whose assets have not been seized are laughing and pointing to studies that suggest entrepreneurs will not leave. Rather, they suggest, the best entrepreneurs will stay in California and continue to finance this racket of a state government.

That is not happening this time, and I encourage all entrepreneurs to stand up and let themselves be known. None of us are “obligated” to endure state asset seizures, and there is no shame in paying the lowest taxes possible.

Or — to quote one of America’s most revered judges and judicial scholars, Billings L. Hand: “Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.”

Despite the ridiculousness of this “retroactive tax,” and despite the fact that no American has a moral obligation to put up with said taxes, there will still be a litany of responses from Californians who mock me and act as though I have encroached upon reason.

I constantly hear people say things like “Good Riddance!” or “Enjoy the weather out East!” or other snarky comments of the like.

Let me be unambiguous in my feelings on the matter — I would far prefer bad weather to bad government.

And while I will not be enjoying any large sugar sodas in New York, I will enjoy living in a city that works… complete with low crime, outstanding transportation, and city employees who bravely gave their lives to protect their city.

California will always be a part of my life. And because the state has been good enough to create such an easily-gamed tax system, I will happily move back when I retire… bypassing their high income tax and enjoying their artificially-suppressed property tax.

I love the people of California. I love the spirit of California. I love the climate of California (both literally and figuratively). I am a Californian at heart. I was born here. I have spent most of my life here. But I will gladly play the expatriot card for a few years while I embrace my next entrepreneurial venture.

My next company should be in New York, and so should I.

Hopefully, this article — and the voices of any other people who join me in speaking up — will do some good for California. No child will change his mischievous ways without a little punishment. And this state government behaves like a reckless, pouting child.

We need to stop giving in.
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Old 03-26-13, 05:43 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

I skimmed the article twice, and still can't find where it says he's a Democrat.
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Old 03-26-13, 07:47 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by emanon View Post
I skimmed the article twice, and still can't find where it says he's a Democrat.
What? Grundle posted an inaccurate thread title? The hell you say.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:14 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Let me preface the article to come by pointing out that I am not some stodgy Republican or “Gospel of Wealth” libertarian who thinks himself holier than thou. I voted for Obama, because I support an increase in federal taxes along with a bunch of loophole closures. But don’t think for a minute that Proposition 30 is even a distant cousin of the reasonable tax increases that we fortunate Americans are likely to face next year.
http://pandodaily.com/2012/11/13/pro...preneurs-over/

So not Tea Party, not Republican, not even Libertarian -- must be a Whig... or maybe Greenback Party.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:20 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

How do you pay taxes for an entire year in September? Was he dead in October, November and December of 2012?
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Old 03-26-13, 08:35 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

I am assuming a quarterly filing.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:36 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
I am assuming a quarterly filing.
Yeah, I thought so too, but he said he paid his "2012 taxes".

At any rate, I guess he doesn't realize that quarterly tax payments are estimated, and I also guess that he doesn't know what "estimated" means.
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Old 03-26-13, 09:01 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

I did not see 2012, that is odd. Though I do agree with the point that making taxes retroactive is BS and despite any credibility or lack of this article has, I am not really sure why someone would open up shop in CA versus NV, TX, SC, etc unless there was a stong geographical reason to do so.
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Old 03-26-13, 09:31 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
I did not see 2012, that is odd. Though I do agree with the point that making taxes retroactive is BS and despite any credibility or lack of this article has, I am not really sure why someone would open up shop in CA versus NV, TX, SC, etc unless there was a stong geographical reason to do so.
There isn't. Many companies are considering the move, even extremely large companies that have been here for decades. I know for a fact that a large, prominent guitar company here in San Diego (where it has been since the 70's) has had serious internal talks about a move out of state for several months now. And yes, the owner is a liberal democrat. There is no reason any company would choose California to start up if they had a choice.
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Old 03-26-13, 09:59 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

To be fair the "retroactive tax" isn't something that the state got together and decided to pass.. it stemmed from a lawsuit that was actually a tax break for some companies (I forgot the exact details of it all). Anyhow a company that didn't qualify sued saying they should get the break too and it all went to court and the court ruled that they companies that got the tax break shouldn't have and they (the court) are the ones who said it should be retroactive (Since it shouldn't have been there in the first place). But, at the end of the day, it's still California where when anyone farts 50 people file a lawsuit and our taxes go up. It's a sunshine tax.

And I'm sorry but as a Democrat what is he complaining about? What about his wonderful subway to the sea? He needs to pay his fair share.
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Old 03-26-13, 11:20 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

I thought the retroactive tax was from a proposition voted in by the people.

At any rate, with the increase in income tax that was passed in CA, plus the obviously unfriendly business atmosphere of the government, I can't imagine anyone wanting to start a business there. Especially one that can be located anywhere. It must be really bad when New York is more appealing for a business to start up.
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Old 03-26-13, 11:33 AM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Good luck getting his current employees to move out of the Bay Area for NY.

He'll find out what most tech companies that leave the area have found out, the majority of the employees will not move.
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Old 03-26-13, 12:19 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Sounded like he was hiring new people for this start up, not getting people to move. He also looked at Texas and Seattle (and Nevada). I'm really surprised he went with NY. I think that proves he is actually a Democrat.
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Old 03-26-13, 12:34 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

The thing I find most annoying about grundle is that he can't figure out how to shorten his titles to fit within the available amount of characters. It makes me so OCD mad!
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Old 03-26-13, 12:37 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

It is not just moving, it is expanding existing companies and putting new offices out of state as well as start ups.

Look at Network Associates, they are still based in Santa Clara, but most of their jobs are in Plano, TX
Kinkos moved it's offices in Oakland and Ventura to Dallas

There are a slew of them listed here

http://thebusinessrelocationcoach.bl...companies.html

Realized this was from 2010 .. more listed starting here. Interested to see Direct TV moving its crappy customer service out of El Sugundo

http://thebusinessrelocationcoach.blogspot.com/

Not sure how accurate these lists are, but they are easily checked facts

I doubt there is anywhere near a similar list of businesses moving into California


As for employees not wanting to move, that is the case now, but if more and more jobs are elsewhere, they will move or the next generation will. Also consider the number of H1B visas that are working in tech industries and coming from other countries, they really do not care where in the US they are getting a job.

You see growing tech pockets in places like Idaho, Utah, Nevada, South Carolina, Texas, etc.

No one ever thought films or TV shows would be made outside of Hollywood (and to a lesser extent New York), now they are all over. The same thing will happen with tech over time.

Last edited by BearFan; 03-26-13 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Added another link
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Old 03-26-13, 12:49 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

What should be really interesting is dealing with public employee pensions in CA. Those are (and have been) a looming problem for a long time. It has gotten much worse with the down turn in the economy, but just imagine if the tax base slowly moves away.

People say that unions are dying, etc., but they are only thinking about private unions. Public ones still get pretty much want they want in CA.
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Old 03-26-13, 12:58 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
What should be really interesting is dealing with public employee pensions in CA. Those are (and have been) a looming problem for a long time. It has gotten much worse with the down turn in the economy, but just imagine if the tax base slowly moves away.

People say that unions are dying, etc., but they are only thinking about private unions. Public ones still get pretty much want they want in CA.
Not all of them.
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Old 03-26-13, 01:07 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Which one are you in? I know most local ones have a lot of sway. The prison guard union is freaky powerful. The teacher's union is probably the least powerful, and that is saying something.

But I could see general police unions not being as powerful, as police are generally not seen in a positive light in CA.
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Old 03-26-13, 01:41 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Which one are you in? I know most local ones have a lot of sway. The prison guard union is freaky powerful. The teacher's union is probably the least powerful, and that is saying something.

But I could see general police unions not being as powerful, as police are generally not seen in a positive light in CA.
We are not actually allowed to have a union (nor strike). It's called an "association". Back before the financial crisis (maybe 10 years ago when raises were still possible) the County offed us a 2%, 1%, and 1% raise over 3 years and a $500.00 "signing bonus" (basically a bribe to agree to the contract right away). The association turned down the contract because we haven't had a real raise in years and felt 4% over 3 years was not enough. The County came back with their counter offer... 4% over 3 years with NO bonus. We took that.
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Old 03-26-13, 02:24 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Sounded like he was hiring new people for this start up, not getting people to move. He also looked at Texas and Seattle (and Nevada). I'm really surprised he went with NY. I think that proves he is actually a Democrat.
Except the part that clearly states his California employees will be moving to NY.
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Old 03-26-13, 02:43 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Except the part that clearly states his California employees will be moving to NY.
I'm sure some are moving, upper management especially. Finding a job in California is pretty hard, despite experience, education, and skill. I know someone who was laid off 9 months ago. Despite all of the above (and a wonderful attitude and glowing recommendations from former supervisors) she is competing against 1000's of other applicants for jobs paying much less than she was making before.
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Old 03-26-13, 02:56 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Yeah, California is rough right now if you are job hunting. People are hiring still, but I'm seeing a lot of contract employments cross my desk these days.
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Old 03-26-13, 03:44 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
What should be really interesting is dealing with public employee pensions in CA. Those are (and have been) a looming problem for a long time. It has gotten much worse with the down turn in the economy, but just imagine if the tax base slowly moves away.

People say that unions are dying, etc., but they are only thinking about private unions. Public ones still get pretty much want they want in CA.
The unions are what get people elected in this state because they endless supply of money to throw a commercial spot on the tube every 30 seconds. I mean look who's going to be running for the next LA Mayor.. two union backed candidates. Anyhow so the unions get everyone elected and then those officials pay them back by forcing the state into these crazy pension deals and it just goes around and around in circles. People in this state are far too stupid to realize it and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. Even if the state were to declare bankruptcy they are still on the hook for these pensions - by law.
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Old 03-26-13, 06:02 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
We are not actually allowed to have a union (nor strike). It's called an "association". Back before the financial crisis (maybe 10 years ago when raises were still possible) the County offed us a 2%, 1%, and 1% raise over 3 years and a $500.00 "signing bonus" (basically a bribe to agree to the contract right away). The association turned down the contract because we haven't had a real raise in years and felt 4% over 3 years was not enough. The County came back with their counter offer... 4% over 3 years with NO bonus. We took that.


Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
The unions are what get people elected in this state because they endless supply of money to throw a commercial spot on the tube every 30 seconds. I mean look who's going to be running for the next LA Mayor.. two union backed candidates. Anyhow so the unions get everyone elected and then those officials pay them back by forcing the state into these crazy pension deals and it just goes around and around in circles. People in this state are far too stupid to realize it and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. Even if the state were to declare bankruptcy they are still on the hook for these pensions - by law.
So which law trumps the other? Bankruptcy law or a law that says that you are still on the hook for something even if you declare bankruptcy? That seems really odd. What then is the point of bankruptcy?
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Old 03-26-13, 06:44 PM
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Re: Rich Democrat who creates lots of jobs: "I am starting my new company outside Cal

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
So which law trumps the other? Bankruptcy law or a law that says that you are still on the hook for something even if you declare bankruptcy? That seems really odd. What then is the point of bankruptcy?
Federal law allows bankruptcy judges to change pension and health-care packages in the private sector, it forbids such changes in public employees' agreements.
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