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LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Old 03-19-13, 10:00 PM
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LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

The Lyndon Johnson Tapes: Richard Nixon's "Treason" at BBC

To this day, I am disturbed by the fact that Nixon wasn't placed in shackles.

It begins in the summer of 1968. Nixon feared a breakthrough at the Paris Peace talks designed to find a negotiated settlement to the Vietnam war, and he knew this would derail his campaign.

He therefore set up a clandestine back-channel involving Anna Chennault, a senior campaign adviser.

At a July meeting in Nixon's New York apartment, the South Vietnamese ambassador was told Chennault represented Nixon and spoke for the campaign. If any message needed to be passed to the South Vietnamese president, Nguyen Van Thieu, it would come via Chennault.

In late October 1968 there were major concessions from Hanoi which promised to allow meaningful talks to get underway in Paris - concessions that would justify Johnson calling for a complete bombing halt of North Vietnam. This was exactly what Nixon feared.

Chennault was despatched to the South Vietnamese embassy with a clear message: the South Vietnamese government should withdraw from the talks, refuse to deal with Johnson, and if Nixon was elected, they would get a much better deal.

So on the eve of his planned announcement of a halt to the bombing, Johnson learned the South Vietnamese were pulling out.

He was also told why. The FBI had bugged the ambassador's phone and a transcripts of Anna Chennault's calls were sent to the White House. In one conversation she tells the ambassador to "just hang on through election".

...

Johnson felt it was the ultimate expression of political hypocrisy but in calls recorded with Clifford they express the fear that going public would require revealing the FBI were bugging the ambassador's phone and the National Security Agency (NSA) was intercepting his communications with Saigon.

So they decided to say nothing.

The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Nixon ended his campaign by suggesting the administration war policy was in shambles. They couldn't even get the South Vietnamese to the negotiating table.

He won by less than 1% of the popular vote.
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Old 03-20-13, 12:01 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Ah, the Johnson/Nixon Presidencies...interesting times.
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Old 03-20-13, 12:33 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
To this day, I am disturbed by the fact that Nixon wasn't placed in shackles.
I am disturbed that the majority of politicians aren't in shackles.
Oh! and did I mention bankers?
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Old 03-20-13, 12:36 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Didn't Reagan do this to Carter as well?
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Old 03-20-13, 12:37 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Fairly interesting from the standpoint that in the previous election Nixon didn't fight the vote fixing because he thought it was bad for the country. Apparently he learned to fight dirty with dirty.

Imagine all the shit about elections and what politicians have done that we will never know about.
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Old 03-20-13, 12:56 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Fairly interesting from the standpoint that in the previous election Nixon didn't fight the vote fixing because he thought it was bad for the country. Apparently he learned to fight dirty with dirty.

Imagine all the shit about elections and what politicians have done that we will never know about.
He actually didn't fight the Democrats' dirty tactics because his tactics were just as dirty. It's just that Daley was able to get more votes in Chicago than the GOP could in downstate Illinois.
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Old 03-20-13, 01:02 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Fairly interesting from the standpoint that in the previous election Nixon didn't fight the vote fixing because he thought it was bad for the country.
The idea that Nixon didn't challenge the vote totals for the good of the country is a myth that Nixon rehabilitators like to bring up. He had others challenge the votes for him.
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Old 03-20-13, 01:39 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Johnson felt it was the ultimate expression of political hypocrisy but in calls recorded with Clifford they express the fear that going public would require revealing the FBI were bugging the ambassador's phone and the National Security Agency (NSA) was intercepting his communications with Saigon.

So they decided to say nothing.
Why didn't they leverage their knowledge of Nixon's back channel dealings and make a front channel direct address to South Vietnam saying, "Either way this election goes you'll get a better deal after the election so just wait a few weeks." That takes Nixon's leverage away and takes the whole issue off the table. That would be for the greater good of everyone, but neither side is interested in the greater good...only winning the election.
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Old 03-20-13, 02:08 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
He actually didn't fight the Democrats' dirty tactics because his tactics were just as dirty. It's just that Daley was able to get more votes in Chicago than the GOP could in downstate Illinois.
Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
The idea that Nixon didn't challenge the vote totals for the good of the country is a myth that Nixon rehabilitators like to bring up. He had others challenge the votes for him.
Well, this is certainly a surprise. Two left leaning people see that what happened in one instance of known Democrat vote fixing was actually just fair play. And apparently Nixon remains the only dirty one in any of this. Well, Reagan as well, I suppose.

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Old 03-20-13, 05:08 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
The idea that Nixon didn't challenge the vote totals for the good of the country is a myth that Nixon rehabilitators like to bring up. He had others challenge the votes for him.
No, somehow this is going to be all the democrat's fault. Just like everything else discussed on this forum.
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Old 03-20-13, 06:11 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Yes, for there are no Jasons, JasonFs, WCChiCubsFans, etc. on this board. Nothing but conservatives.
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Old 03-20-13, 07:05 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
He actually didn't fight the Democrats' dirty tactics because his tactics were just as dirty. It's just that Daley was able to get more votes in Chicago than the GOP could in downstate Illinois.
Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Well, this is certainly a surprise. Two left leaning people see that what happened in one instance of known Democrat vote fixing was actually just fair play. And apparently Nixon remains the only dirty one in any of this. Well, Reagan as well, I suppose.

Do the rest of the people on your school board know that you suck this much at reading comprehension? I'm not trying to excuse what the Democrats did in Chicago (and Texas, and probably everywhere else they controlled a machine). But the idea that Saint Richard of Nixon ignored JFK's wrongdoing for the good of the country is a ridiculous myth. He knew what the reality was: offsetting penalties, the play stands as called, touchdown Kennedy.
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Old 03-20-13, 07:19 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

That is the beauty of being elected. Doesn't matter what they know.

And I'm no fan of Nixon. He's the piece of shit that gave us baseline budgeting, which I think is far more harmful to our country than Obamacare. It allows more propaganda to be thrown around than any other political thing I can think of.

And my point was actually your point. Let's not play like Nixon is the only bad guy around. Every one of those guys did shady shit. Consequently, I say that it would be wild to know all the shit that really happened, and not just what we know.

Do the other lawyers at your law firm know that your reading comprehension sucks as bad as a hick town school board member?
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Old 03-20-13, 07:38 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Shows what you know -- I'm no longer at a law firm. I've worked in a corporate law department for the last two-plus years.

So .... if we both agree that Nixon did scummy things and Kennedy did scummy things, why are we arguing?
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Old 03-20-13, 09:04 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Besides influencing the election results, there is another implication of Nixon's actions. He may well have prolonged the war, resulting in the needless deaths of thousands upon thousands of American and Vietnamese people.

During the presidential campaign he claimed that he knew how to bring the war to an end. Epic hypocrisy and deception.

Last edited by Ghostbuster; 03-20-13 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-20-13, 09:30 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Thieu wasn't attending the talks either way.
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Old 03-20-13, 11:07 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

I'm not voting for either one of them again.
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Old 03-21-13, 07:21 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Shows what you know -- I'm no longer at a law firm. I've worked in a corporate law department for the last two-plus years.

So .... if we both agree that Nixon did scummy things and Kennedy did scummy things, why are we arguing?
Because even when we agree, I'm right and you're wrong.
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Old 03-21-13, 09:32 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Because even when we agree, I'm right and you're wrong.
OK. Makes sense to me.
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Old 03-21-13, 09:37 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
During the presidential campaign he claimed that he knew how to bring the war to an end. Epic hypocrisy and deception.
Hardly. He did know how to bring the war to an end.
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Old 03-21-13, 10:33 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
OK. Makes sense to me.
I knew you would.
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Old 03-21-13, 10:39 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Shows what you know -- I'm no longer at a law firm. I've worked in a corporate law department for the last two-plus years.

So .... if we both agree that Nixon did scummy things and Kennedy did scummy things, why are we arguing?
You guys don't know any other way to express love.
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Old 03-21-13, 11:09 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
You guys don't know any other way to express love.
We're broken inside.
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Old 03-21-13, 11:22 AM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

The cosmic ballet goes on.
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Old 03-21-13, 12:07 PM
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Re: LBJ on Nixon: Traitor

It works for us, dammit.
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