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Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Old 01-28-13, 05:59 PM
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Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

The Boy Scouts of America are considering changing their national policy to exclude gays, and instead let each troop decide for itself. But they are not changing their policy on keeping those damned atheists out.

Nice to be part of the most reviled group in America. Fuck you, BSA.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-gay-members/
The Boy Scout of America is considering ending its longstanding national membership restrictions based on sexual orientation.


Under the change now being discussed, the different religious and civic groups that sponsor Scout units would be able to decide for themselves how to address the issue — either maintaining an exclusion of gays or opening up their membership.


Monday's announcement of the possible change comes after years of protests over the policy — including petition campaigns that have prompted some corporations to suspend donations to the Boy Scouts.
. . .
The Boys Scouts, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2010, has long excluded both gays and atheists. Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.
I think the real truth is that they want those corporate donations, and corporations don't bother to speak out on the rights of atheists yet.
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Old 01-28-13, 06:09 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

No way. Next you'll tell me that the Mormons realized that polygamy was bad just so they could get statehood.

I am outraged.
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Old 01-28-13, 08:18 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Look at the positive in this. The BSA can now offer Gay Badges.
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Old 01-28-13, 08:39 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
No way. Next you'll tell me that the Mormons realized that polygamy was bad just so they could get statehood.

I am outraged.
Yeah, I think old Joseph had a revelation that Utah wasn't going to be a state if he didn't see the light.
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Old 01-28-13, 09:03 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Yay!

I always thought it was their sweetheart municipal deals falling into jeopardy that would trip the trigger. Nope. Corporate donations.

[yawn] I wonder how many times in the past 15 years I fought about this here. Seems like I was always losing. I also remember when South Park was wrong about this and everyone thought I was an asshole for saying it.[/yawn]

Really though. There's lots of gay kids out there. They'll be getting enough rejection in their lives. If they want in and the troop wants them in, they should be in.

Although, come to think of it, this is a bit like a states-rights solution. Discrimination is still OK if equality would offend the locals for religious reasons. But it's certainly a change for the better.

BSA is a Christian org, as has often been mentioned... Can someone remind me how accommodating the BSA is (or not) toward Jews, Muslims, Buddhists these days? I know athiest kids need not apply, which again I don't much like from an org that has so many sweetheart gov't deals.

Quasi-religious-quasi-civic orgs are always a mess, moreso with kids involved.

Last edited by adamblast; 01-28-13 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 01-28-13, 09:34 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

There are indeed a lot of gay kids out there. Which is surprising to me they didn't start a GSA club or something on their own. Why fight the BSA so much when the parents of gay kids could have started their own organization and probably would have had tens of millions of dollars of start-up capital. Instead of trying to knock down your neighbor's fence because it offends you...build your own that's twice as high.
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Old 01-28-13, 10:08 PM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
BSA is a Christian org, as has often been mentioned... Can someone remind me how accommodating the BSA is (or not) toward Jews, Muslims, Buddhists these days? I know athiest kids need not apply, which again I don't much like from an org that has so many sweetheart gov't deals.
I think they're okay with Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists, but it doesn't look like Wiccans are welcome.
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Old 01-29-13, 12:32 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

By GSA I assume you don't mean Girl Scouts of America--they dropped their exclusion a long time ago. So did Boys/Girls Club and Big Bros/Sisters. BSA is the last holdout, and that's probably because the LDS church is their major cultural base now.

As for pushing your way in where you aren't wanted? That all depends on the context. I don't see "start an X for your own kind" as much of a response in most cases.

Scouting's a very different thing than having (or not) a gay/straight support club at school. Scouting's more outdoorsy-like, I hear, plus has famous outfits. And no gay orgs will give you a badge for whittling.

Last edited by adamblast; 01-29-13 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 01-29-13, 04:42 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
BSA is a Christian org, as has often been mentioned... Can someone remind me how accommodating the BSA is (or not) toward Jews, Muslims, Buddhists these days? I know athiest kids need not apply, which again I don't much like from an org that has so many sweetheart gov't deals.
I think as long as you pray to some invisible Man in the sky, you are OK. No praying, you are scum. Pretending to pray is good enough, though, so just lie if you want to join up.
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Old 01-29-13, 06:34 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Nice to be part of the most reviled group in America. Fuck you, BSA.
So if I got this straight...

Most Reviled Groups in America
1. The Boy Scouts of America, for the whole denying sex being a primary identifier for prepubescent boys thing
2. Religious groups for not letting people who don't believe in those religions in as members because I am sure they wouldn't sit there the whole time during meetings and sigh loudly while rolling their eyes
3. The Justin Bieber Fan Club
4. Fans of Non-anamorphic Widescreen DVDs
5. The Young Republicans

.........5,342. NAMBLA(?)

Last edited by Whiskey Warfield; 01-29-13 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 01-29-13, 06:59 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by Screwadu View Post
So if I got this straight...
You don't.
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Old 01-29-13, 07:29 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Source?
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Old 01-29-13, 07:30 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by Screwadu View Post
Source?
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/11557371-post1.html
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Old 01-29-13, 07:41 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by Screwadu View Post
So if I got this straight...
The first thing you need to straighten is your reading comprehension skills
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Old 01-29-13, 07:42 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Well sure, if you're going to use a partisan hack website as "proof"
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Old 01-29-13, 08:08 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Hey guys, no tackling other issues until we have NAMBLA dealt with.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:04 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by adamblast View Post
And no gay orgs will give you a badge for whittling.
Why not? What you said is an offensive, discriminatory remark that is asserting that homosexuals are 'different' in ways other than their sexual practices and thus perpetuates stereotypes.

Regardless of what the BSA decides...and they will lose more members than they will gain since religious conservatives & evangelicals make up the majority of their base...the question remains as to why those who support open membership don't start up their own organization and abolish the moral standards which would exclude some.

How hard is it to organize an outdoor club, establish some standards, and design and order some khaki uniforms? Kids form informal clubs all of the time. Surely their enterprising parents can shell out the money they would have paid to purchase BSA uniforms, patches, guidebooks, gear, dues, etc. and apply it toward their own organization.

If the intent is truly to join an organization that shares your ideals and has something beneficial to offer, that would appear to be the rational approach. On the other hand, if forcing a private organization (whose beliefs you do not share to change their standards) is the intent, then there is no need to start your own group.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:16 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Look at the positive in this. The BSA can now offer Gay Badges.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:16 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

That's right, folks. "Separate but equal" worked great in the segregated south. Seems like a great model for scouting as well.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:19 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

I understand why they would reject atheists and I support that decision. Excluding gays doesn't make much sense, and am glad they are making the change.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:20 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Practical question: Would homosexual scouts sleep in segregated tents?

Leaving aside the jokes about boys/girls 'experimenting' with their own gender, circle jerks, etc.... address this on a purely biological level.

It is highly unlikely that parents would allow boys and girls to share tents on a mutal GSA (or Girls, Inc.)/BSA outing...even if all of those inhabiting the tent took an oath swearing that they were not in the least attracted to anyone else in the tent (which removes the argument that "just because a person is ____, that doesn't mean that they are sexually attracted to all ____). And if anyone should assert that it's more about embarrassment about undressing in front of the opposite sex, you should take a poll to see how many boys/girls were extremely bashful, self-conscious, and nervous about undressing or showering in P.E. class with the same gender.

I know this much...when puberty hit, both I and my friends were attracted to just about any person of the opposite sex who exhibited secondary sex characteristics. That didn't mean we would want to be seen with them in public (and certainly not be linked with them romantically), but we would have explored just about any possibility that presented itself. And I don't think that we were more highly-sexualized than the average adolescent. I had lots of sleepovers sharing beds with friends, but it was an entirely different situation that night my aunt & uncle had me share a bed with my female cousin (whom I considered homely as a mud fence during the light of day & never had the slightest interest in). That was a very uncomfortable night even though we were both only eleven.

And would scouts have to reveal their sexuality when joining? Would two homosexual scouts be forbidden to share a tent together (so as to avoid the situation I found myself in that night)?
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Old 01-29-13, 09:21 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
That's right, folks. "Separate but equal" worked great in the segregated south. Seems like a great model for scouting as well.
Does the NAACP allow members who believe in KKK doctrine to join?
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Old 01-29-13, 09:23 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Why would you want to join our country club when we clearly don't want you? Surely starting your own country club is a viable option.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:24 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Does the NAACP allow members who believe in KKK doctrine to join?
If we're going apples to apples, the better question is does the NAACP allow white people to join? And the answer is yes.
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Old 01-29-13, 09:24 AM
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
I understand why they would reject atheists and I support that decision. Excluding gays doesn't make much sense, and am glad they are making the change.
If the BSA's standards of belief are based upon Christian doctrine...and requires a pledge of sexual purity (and if that would exclude sexual preferences antithetical to Christian doctrine)...then the ban makes perfect sense.

If none of the above applies and the BSA is just a civic organization designed to teach practical life skills to young men, then it doesn't make sense.

What does the current BSA oath require?
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