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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 06-17-16, 08:54 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I've said from the start that Trump doesn't actually want the job of being president, he just wants the spotlight of it to feed his ego. He might be self-sabotaging, or at this point, doesn't want to run a general campaign, which is very different from a primary campaign. And forget about being president - I can't imagine it's a job he would at all like.
He wants the job, just doesn't want to do the work to get there.

More importantly, he has no money; personally or for his campaign.
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Old 06-17-16, 09:08 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Wasn't sure whether this belongs here or in the media bias thread, but here are some conclusions from an analysis of election coverage during 2015:

  • The Democratic race got less than half the coverage that the Republican race received.

  • Trump got the most coverage of any candidate running on either side, the vast majority of which was favorable in tone, despite claims that his rise was mostly driven by cable TV and social media.

  • Sanders supporters were right: He didn’t receive much attention in the first half of 2015. Clinton got three times more coverage, and even Trump, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson each got more than Sanders. But once he did get coverage, the attention was far more positive than it was for Clinton. In fact, Sanders received the most favorable coverage of any Democrat or Republican running, collecting three positive pieces for every negative one.

  • Meanwhile, the study said that the press distrust of Clinton is demonstrable. She received the least favorable coverage of any Democratic or Republican candidate. In the first half of 2015, there were three negative reports about her for every positive one. In the second half, the ratio was 3:2 negative to positive. Fox led the way, broadcasting 291 negative reports about Clinton and just 39 positive ones. In contrast, Fox gave Sanders 79 positive mentions and 31 negative ones.
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Old 06-17-16, 09:09 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Meanwhile, the Clinton machine is spreading and multiplying across the country. She now has the freedom of allowing her surrogates to help down ballot candidates as well as her election.
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Old 06-17-16, 09:52 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Meanwhile, the study said that the press distrust of Clinton is demonstrable. She received the least favorable coverage of any Democratic or Republican candidate. In the first half of 2015, there were three negative reports about her for every positive one. In the second half, the ratio was 3:2 negative to positive. Fox led the way, broadcasting 291 negative reports about Clinton and just 39 positive ones. In contrast, Fox gave Sanders 79 positive mentions and 31 negative ones.
Haters gonna hate.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:01 AM
  #16880  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

It may be that some candidates have so much more going on that can be considered negative. I doubt the appropriate answer is that those things should be ignored by the media.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:03 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Meanwhile, the Clinton machine is spreading and multiplying across the country. She now has the freedom of allowing her surrogates to help down ballot candidates as well as her election.
I await the flood of Democrats elected because of her popularity and help.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:19 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by dork View Post
Wasn't sure whether this belongs here or in the media bias thread, but here are some conclusions from an analysis of election coverage during 2015:
Sanders supporters were right: He didn’t receive much attention in the first half of 2015. Clinton got three times more coverage
Sanders didn't announce until Memorial Day weekend. Clinton announced in early April, and there was lots of pre-announcement speculation that she would be running. A comparison of the second half of 2015 would be more telling. I suspect Hillary still got more attention, but probably not three times as much.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:29 AM
  #16883  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

The good news is, even if Trump wins, Congress has plenty of reasons to commence impeachment proceedings on 21 January. The latest is that he used he's using his charitable foundation as part of his campaign.

The Trump Foundation, Donald Trump’s nonprofit organization, is under fire for allegedly operating as more of a political slush fund than a charity. The foundation is accused of violating rules prohibiting it from engaging in politics—prompting ethics watchdogs to call for public investigations.

On numerous occasions this year, Trump’s campaign work and his foundation work have overlapped—putting himself at risk for penalties and his charity at risk of being shut down.

It’s the latest example of Trump courting controversy: not merely through inflammatory rhetoric, but also through private dealings that raise serious legal questions—all of which indicate how he might govern if elected president of the United States.

Trump is listed as the president of the foundation in the charity’s annual disclosures, and his children Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, and Ivanka Trump are all listed as directors. Foundations like theirs are exempt from paying taxes, and as such are barred from engaging in political causes.

“A 501(c)(3) [nonprofit organization], like the Trump Foundation, is strictly prohibited from engaging in political activity. On its tax forms, the Foundation told the IRS that it does not,” said Jordan Libowitz, a spokesman for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).

But in key early primary states this year, Trump handed out Foundation checks to charities at campaign rallies. This also calls into question “whether the foundation provided the campaign with an illegal in-kind contribution by providing services for what was a campaign event. Under the campaign finance laws… providing anything of value to a campaign for free or at less than fair market value is a contribution to the campaign,” said Larry Noble, the general counsel at the Campaign Legal Center.

And in 2013, the Trump Foundation donated $25,000 to a political organization supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi—an action the foundation is prohibited from taking, and which it failed to report on its disclosures.

The Trump campaign blamed this failure on clerical mistakes, but legal experts are sounding the alarm because at the time Bondi was reviewing complaints surrounding the businessman’s controversial Trump University project.

Both the contribution to Bondi and the overlap between the Trump campaign and his charity should be publicly examined, government watchdogs said.

“This should be investigated. There are troubling legal issues posed in both circumstances,” said Richard Skinner, a money-in-politics policy analyst at the Sunlight Foundation. “There is definitely [use of] a charitable foundation in an inappropriate way.”

Noble, the general counsel at the Campaign Legal Center, added that the Federal Election Commission and the IRS should both open an investigation into whether any laws were broken.

Notably, Donald Trump has legal expertise at his disposal that would allow him to know better than to put himself at risk for these violations. Donald F. McGahn, a Trump lawyer who works for the firm Jones Day, is a former FEC chairman. McGahn did not respond to The Daily Beast’s requests for comment.

Trump decided to skip the January Fox News GOP debate in protest of Megyn Kelly, whose question at a debate in August prompted an onslaught of criticism from Trump and his supporters. He held a charity event for veterans instead, during which he claimed to have raised $6 million. (After much prodding from reporters, and months of delay, he accounted for $5.6 million of the original figure.)

This money was disbursed gradually, and the involvement of the foundation was clear. At multiple campaign rallies this year, the businessman handed out Trump Foundation checks to veterans’ charities.


“It would be one thing to raise money for the charity and send it to them. But if receiving the contribution was dependent on attending the campaign event, it looks like the purpose of the whole thing was to support the campaign,” Noble said. “It raises serious questions when you make a charity part of your campaign event. It could create legal problems for both the campaign and the charity.”

On Jan. 30, with Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. by his side at a campaign rally in Davenport, Iowa, Trump presented a $100,000 Trump Foundation check to Puppy Jake, a charity which supports veterans by providing service dogs.

Puppy Jake’s executive director, Becky Beach, told The Daily Beast that the Trump campaign had been in touch with her about the Trump Foundation’s contribution.

“They called me on the phone,” Beach said, but she could not remember who on the campaign her organization had coordinated with to organize their rally appearance. It was likely an “advance guy” from the Trump campaign, she said.

The next day, the day before the Iowa caucuses, the founder of Support Siouxland Soldiers, another vets charity, appeared on stage with Trump at a Sioux City campaign rally to accept a $100,000 Trump Foundation check.

Support Siouxland Soldiers executive director Sarah Petersen told The Daily Beast that she had been in touch with a Trump staffer named Hope, and provided the phone number they used in order to discuss the donation. The phone number matches up with the campaign’s listed number for Hope Hicks, the Trump campaign’s spokeswoman.

In New Hampshire, those in Trump’s orbit tried to organize a similar rally. They reached out to Keith Howard, the executive director of a local vets charity called Liberty House.

Earlier this year, Howard told The Daily Beast he received a call from a figure affiliated with the Trump campaign, who said that Trump would like to present them with a six-figure check at a Londonderry, New Hampshire, rally right before the Granite State’s primary.

Howard, concerned that being presented with money by a political candidate at a political rally might jeopardize his charity’s nonprofit status, called an expert in the state’s attorney general’s office, who confirmed his suspicions.

Howard declined to attend the rally, and Trump instead presented the check to a New Hampshire state representative who advised him on veterans issues. The state representative ultimately passed those funds along to Howard’s group, without the fanfare.


More recently, following pressure from the press to account for the $6 million he supposedly raised, the Trump campaign announced donations to 20 additional charities. Nine of them, all of which received checks from the Trump Foundation, responded to The Daily Beast’s inquiries. Representatives for each organization said they were neither in contact with the Trump campaign nor were asked to appear at campaign rallies.

The Daily Beast’s attempts to contact the Trump Foundation suggest that the charity exists largely on paper. A phone call to the number listed on the Trump Foundation’s annual disclosures led to a staffer for the Trump Organization, the umbrella group for Trump’s business dealings. Multiple phone calls to the organization failed to yield contact with a foundation staffer.

At one point, a Daily Beast reporter was told that Hicks, Trump’s campaign spokesperson, was responsible for media inquiries related to the foundation. During a second phone call, the reporter was told to contact Justin McConney, who supposedly handles the foundation’s account and donations. Calls and emails to McConney—whose official title is director of new media for the Trump Organization—went unreturned.

McConney also works on the Trump campaign—a January report questioned whether he was being paid fair market value for his work, as he split time between the Trump Organization and the Trump campaign.


The Trump campaign and the Trump Organization did not respond to a request for comment.

The Trump Foundation is already under a microscope.

CREW has filed a complaint against the Trump Foundation over the contribution to Bondi in March, claiming that the charity made an illegal political donation and failed to disclose it to the IRS; and Florida State Sen. Dwight Bullard has written to U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, asking for the Justice Department to investigate the donation.

“Trump apparently does not understand either [the Federal Election Campaign Act] or the tax code and seems to have encouraged both organizations to cross the line,” said Craig Holman, a government affairs lobbyist at the consumer rights group Public Citizen.

When the foundation’s activity crosses over into politics, Holman said, it poses a potential violation of the FECA, which prohibits campaign coordination with outside groups that are not subject to political contribution limits and disclosure requirements.

Philip Hackney, a law professor who spent five years working for the IRS’s chief counsel, said the apparent coordination between the foundation and the campaign was “unwise” because it could put his foundation—and its tax-exempt status—in jeopardy.

The Bondi donation is probably sufficient evidence for the IRS to open an audit into the Trump Foundation, Hackney told The Daily Beast, adding that Trump himself could be subjected to extra taxes.

“I don’t know that they’ll even audit him,” Hackney said. “I think it’s dangerous, particularly politically for them right now, to audit in this realm. That bothers me, given what I see in this particular case, but I don’t know that the IRS has another choice in some ways.”


Originally Posted by sracer View Post
The GOP membership has spoken and Trump is the guy they want to represent them. Anyone who doesn't like it is in the minority.
Trump only won a majority in one contested primary.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:37 AM
  #16884  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

I'd say that's more damning than anything to do with Hillary's emails.
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Old 06-17-16, 10:39 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I'd say that's more damning than anything to do with Hillary's emails.
New thread!
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Old 06-17-16, 11:02 AM
  #16886  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Is the NRA the most powerful lobby in the US?
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Old 06-17-16, 11:03 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

"Sad!"

A really fascinating conversation with the campaign leaders of Jeb, Cruz and Rubio on what it was like to lose to Trump.

They're rather open, honest and forthcoming which is refreshing.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:04 AM
  #16888  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Holy shit, I hope the Trump charity scandal picks up steam in the media. That is some really bad shit. And yes, it's way worse than Hillary's emails.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:05 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I look forward to helping oust Toomey in November.
Right now the vulnerable Republicans that are in blue states/purple states:

-Toomey PA

-Johnson WI

-Open Seat FL (Rubio's seat)

-Kirk IL

-Ayotte NH

-Portman OH

This is why I believe if Trump starts sinking in the fall, then the RNC will pump all of their money in these contested races to keep the Senate.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:08 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

I am sure all the people who continually bring up the Clinton Foundation will discuss the Trump Foundation at least as much, because as we know all those people want is for the truth to be heard. No agenda at all.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:14 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I am sure all the people who continually bring up the Clinton Foundation will discuss the Trump Foundation at least as much, because as we know all those people want is for the truth to be heard. No agenda at all.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:16 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
Is the NRA the most powerful lobby in the US?
Moneywise it's not in the top 20

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

US Chamber of Commerce
National Assn of Realtors
American Medical Assn
General Electric
American Hospital Assn
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America
Blue Cross/Blue Shield
AARP
Northrop Grumman
Boeing Co
Business Roundtable
Exxon Mobil
Lockheed Martin
Verizon Communications
Edison Electric Institute
AT&T Inc
National Cable & Telecommunications Assn
National Assn of Broadcasters
Southern Co
Altria Group

Last edited by inri222; 06-17-16 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:29 AM
  #16893  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Amazing that we're not even to the convention and the Republicans are already talking about saving the down ticket.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:30 AM
  #16894  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Trump only won a majority in one contested primary.
Yeah, I know the whole, "60+% of primary voters voted AGAINST Trump". THAT is irrelevant. More people voted for Trump than for any other individual candidate... and to the point... he has a majority of the delegates... as in more than 50%.

Trump IS a reflection of the Republican Party. If they don't like what they see in the mirror then they have some soul searching to do.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:42 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Ah, interesting. Thanks for the info, inri222.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:48 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Yeah, I know the whole, "60+% of primary voters voted AGAINST Trump". THAT is irrelevant. More people voted for Trump than for any other individual candidate... and to the point... he has a majority of the delegates... as in more than 50%.

Trump IS a reflection of the Republican Party. If they don't like what they see in the mirror then they have some soul searching to do.
Yep. People try and make it sound like everyone who didn't vote for him is against him.. and there's absolutely no proof of that at all. It's just wishful thinking more than anything.

Republicans are stuck with Trump. However I still say that of all the pathetic cast of characters the party put forward for nominees - Trump is and was the only one who had a chance against Sanders. Hillary to a lesser extent.

Having said that.. when Trump said a few months ago he was going to start acting more presidential while he was riding higher in the polls - I thought he had a good chance to turn things around for himself. But since then he's pretty much alienated everyone and continued to, in my opinion, not take this seriously at all. It's too late for him now.
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Old 06-17-16, 11:50 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Yeah, I know the whole, "60+% of primary voters voted AGAINST Trump". THAT is irrelevant. More people voted for Trump than for any other individual candidate... and to the point... he has a majority of the delegates... as in more than 50%.

Trump IS a reflection of the Republican Party. If they don't like what they see in the mirror then they have some soul searching to do.
Trump is a reflection of America.

Don't try to corner this as a one-party phenom, label it, and then conveniently think that this is just a boxed issue that you can shelve and forget about.

Democrats have done this for 8 years and look where it got them. It got them looking elsewhere, with 40% or more looking at Bernie, and even Gary Johnson.

There are many who are not Republicans, supporting Trump.

Soul-searching is not just reserved for Republicans. Democrats have just as much, if not, more blame for this year's election candidates. Once again, if everything was going so fucking peachy and bunny-hug perfect, then you wouldn't see such a distaste for government.

But if Democrats continue with their Superior Intellect Party ideology, they will continue to fail on issues, and people will be looking for something different, anything, that will at least find a solution to problems.
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Old 06-17-16, 12:00 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
Yep. People try and make it sound like everyone who didn't vote for him is against him.. and there's absolutely no proof of that at all. It's just wishful thinking more than anything.

Republicans are stuck with Trump. However I still say that of all the pathetic cast of characters the party put forward for nominees - Trump is and was the only one who had a chance against Sanders. Hillary to a lesser extent.

Having said that.. when Trump said a few months ago he was going to start acting more presidential while he was riding higher in the polls - I thought he had a good chance to turn things around for himself. But since then he's pretty much alienated everyone and continued to, in my opinion, not take this seriously at all. It's too late for him now.
Trump is able to do what he wants because Republican leaders are just fucking pussies, you know it and I know it, and won't give Trump a good talking to, and instead, try to insult him in the public domain. They want to take jabs at him, and then come across as compassionate and understanding.

Newt Gingrich is probably the only man who could get through to Trump and I'm not sure how that is going, but see, this is why Republicans, without Trump, will fail miserably come the election.

Republicans don't have any dedication, no loyalty to Americans, and Trump was the only person who rallied people together, contrary to arguments indicating otherwise.

There is no Republican candidate that can get the type of support Trump received. No one. Maybe if Newt Gingrich runs for Prez, but who will be his VP?

If the Republican Party says goodbye to Trump and he goes Indie, Republicans will be left with a hollow religious bible-banging bandwagon.

Talk about the Joke Party, this will be it.

So, there needs to be more of an effort to talk to Trump versus making him an enemy. And it seems this is all Republicans are good at: Making enemies, criticizing each other, picking each other apart.

As I've said before, I admire Democrats because they, for the most part, stick together and know what a long-term game plan is.
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Old 06-17-16, 12:11 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Trump is a reflection of America.

Don't try to corner this as a one-party phenom, label it, and then conveniently think that this is just a boxed issue that you can shelve and forget about.
It wasn't Democrats that went flooding to vote for Trump. It was independents but mostly Republicans. Should Trump win the general election THEN you can claim that Trump is a reflection of America. Unless that happens, Trump is and only a reflection of the Republican Party. Sorry if you don't like that, but that is reality.



Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Democrats have done this for 8 years and look where it got them. It got them looking elsewhere, with 40% or more looking at Bernie, and even Gary Johnson.
I haven't said anything about the Democrats and what their nominee says about them. In the same way that Trump is a reflection of Republicans, Hillary is a reflection of Democrats and all that means.


Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
There are many who are not Republicans, supporting Trump.

Soul-searching is not just reserved for Republicans. Democrats have just as much, if not, more blame for this year's election candidates. Once again, if everything was going so fucking peachy and bunny-hug perfect, then you wouldn't see such a distaste for government.
Deflection. That is the word to describe your response. You can't accept what Trump means for the Republican Party so your response is, "oh yeah!? Well, Hillary! and don't forget Obama!!!"



Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
But if Democrats continue with their Superior Intellect Party ideology, they will continue to fail on issues, and people will be looking for something different, anything, that will at least find a solution to problems.
More deflection. The last time that the Republican Party stood FOR something was the Patriot Act, Dept of Homeland Security, and the NSA. That's rich coming from the party of "smaller government and personal freedom". According to the Republican Party there was no problem with Wall St, no problem with healthcare, no problem with the growing income disparity. As soon as someone else proposes a solution to a problem, they're all over why it will be a disaster for the country but they themselves don't offer a solution.

They claimed that Social Security is on the verge of going bust. If that money collected specifically for it was set aside for it, and raise the cap on taxable income, there'd be no problem. What was the Republican's response to Social Security? Privatize it! Yeah, that would've been terrific for those who were going to retire in 2008-2009. Had it been privatized back when the Republicans wanted it, those retirees would be SOL. I don't hear these Republicans talking about privatizing it anymore. But people need to hold them accountable for their harebrained schemes. Why should anyone take their "proposals" seriously after that?

That's just Social Security... their lack of a solution on healthcare is even more sad.
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Old 06-17-16, 12:19 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I am sure all the people who continually bring up the Clinton Foundation will discuss the Trump Foundation at least as much, because as we know all those people want is for the truth to be heard. No agenda at all.
Wait. So only some people have an agenda? Are you saying that when you post something bad about Trump you will follow it up with something bad about Hillary just so you aren't like the people you are talking about?
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