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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 06-14-16, 12:40 PM
  #16676  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by movielib View Post
I love Dick. Wait a second...

Seriously, I think it is one of the funniest films I have ever seen. It's brilliant and waaaay underrated.
You can't let Dick run your life!

I agree, it's an absolutely hilarious movie, and very, very clever.
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Old 06-14-16, 12:48 PM
  #16677  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I'm confused on why the Pentagon even decided to reach out to Trump.
Because, like the rest of the national security community, they think he's a moron.

OPEN LETTER ON DONALD TRUMP FROM GOP NATIONAL SECURITY LEADERS

We the undersigned, members of the Republican national security community, represent a broad spectrum of opinion on America’s role in the world and what is necessary to keep us safe and prosperous. We have disagreed with one another on many issues, including the Iraq war and intervention in Syria. But we are united in our opposition to a Donald Trump presidency. Recognizing as we do, the conditions in American politics that have contributed to his popularity, we nonetheless are obligated to state our core objections clearly:

His vision of American influence and power in the world is wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle. He swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence.

His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world.

His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.

His hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric undercuts the seriousness of combating Islamic radicalism by alienating partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort. Furthermore, it endangers the safety and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.

Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.

Similarly, his insistence that close allies such as Japan must pay vast sums for protection is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.

His admiration for foreign dictators such as Vladimir Putin is unacceptable for the leader of the world’s greatest democracy.

He is fundamentally dishonest. Evidence of this includes his attempts to deny positions he has unquestionably taken in the past, including on the 2003 Iraq war and the 2011 Libyan conflict. We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation.

His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false. Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.

Mr. Trump’s own statements lead us to conclude that as president, he would use the authority of his office to act in ways that make America less safe, and which would diminish our standing in the world. Furthermore, his expansive view of how presidential power should be wielded against his detractors poses a distinct threat to civil liberty in the United States. Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office.

Number of Signatories: 121
Spoiler:

Ken Adelman
David Adesnik
Michael Auslin
Mike Baker
Christopher Barton
Kevin W. Billings
Robert D. Blackwill
Daniel A. Blumenthal
Max Boot
Ellen Bork
Anna Borshchevskaya
Joseph A. Bosco
Michael Chertoff
Patrick Chovanec
James Clad
Eliot A. Cohen
Gus Coldebella
Carrie Cordero
Michael Coulter
Chester A. Crocker
Patrick M. Cronin
Seth Cropsey
Tom Donnelly
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Richard A. Falkenrath
Peter D. Feaver
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David Gordon
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Mary R. Habeck
Paul Haenle
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Francis Q. Hoang
Rachel Hoff
Jeffrey W. Hornung
William C. Inboden
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Robert G. Joseph
Tim Kane
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Old 06-14-16, 12:52 PM
  #16678  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
People need to get their rationale in order about why she should still be president after it is shown that because of her own stupidity, pride, and need to keep her political affairs away from FOIA requests, she unwittingly let most every country know what was going on at the highest level of our government.
You really like to create exciting narratives, don't you? Do you have any evidence of this?
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Old 06-14-16, 12:59 PM
  #16679  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Pretty good article on what it's like for a reporter to cover the Trump campaign.

[excerpt]
Asking [Trump] policy questions is like throwing a rock down a bottomless well. “If I have a question about women’s issues, or Hispanic issues,” said one reporter, “it’s not like they point me to specific press liaisons who handle those. There aren’t any such people.” Most policy queries simply go unanswered. When a response does come back, it’s rarely sufficient. “There’s no point anyway,” said another reporter. “You might get a response to a question about immigration policy, but the next day on TV, Trump will contradict it.”


“We used to fact-check everything, every day,” another reporter told me, “but it gets hard to keep up.” For a writer filing on deadline an hour after a rally ends, there’s not enough time to thoroughly fact-check the dozens of fabrications that spilled from the stage. It’s also hard to know who the fact-checking is for. At this point, anyone who hates Trump has ample evidence he’s a liar. And anyone who loves Trump doesn’t care.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:01 PM
  #16680  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You really like to create exciting narratives, don't you? Do you have any evidence of this?
I'm saying that we are about to witness one of the most important political moments in our time. I think most people would enjoy it more if they knew it was coming. But some seem to prefer the surprise.

No evidence would suffice for you. Every bit of evidence that has come up has been scoffed at. Some can't even admit she is lying about it being allowed or that no emails had confidential markings, or that procedures didn't change until she left, all of which the OIG report confirmed are lies. That won't even qualify as evidence to you. So I'll let you just enjoy the fallout. But because we're pals, I'll help you to enjoy it to its fullest.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:03 PM
  #16681  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Pretty good article on what it's like for a reporter to cover the Trump campaign.

[excerpt]
I've always thought he was an 88 IQ guy. When you start with a lot of money, you can do well being smart or being a bully. And he isn't particularly smart.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:11 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
What are you talking about? Trump said that they should increase airstrikes, and the Pentagon replied that they are doing as much as they can.

Is there some specific target that Trump and you think should be bombed, but is not now, aside from the generic "ISIS target?"
An increase in military presence, however you splice it, cut it, or interpret it, is going to be necessary to defeat ISIS and their influence. This isn't some gang in Chicago. And we've been treating it like it was for many years.

So, let's say the Pentagon said, "We're doing all we can." That's great. But it's a canned response that means nothing. One only has to look at the history of the Pentagon and how they've dealt with ISIS over the years. It's more political than it is military strategic. Not all military officials share the same opinions as the Pentagon.

In related news, another ISIS follower killed a French Cop in Paris, then tortured the wife in front of their toddler.

And then we hear US politicians and even our military officials says, "Well, we're doing all we can."

No. We are not doing all we can. This is going to get worse. More attacks are going to happen, and if some people are ok with being told that everything is fine and we're doing all we can...fine. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Many Americans are forced to get the second opinions from somebody like Trump...to get something going in a new direction. This should tell you how ineffective our politicians have been over the last 8 years (or more). Trump did not get this popular based on himself. He is where he is...because of other people agreeing with him, realizing things are terribly wrong.

ISIS is influencing people in very key geographic areas to attack. Reducing the presence of ISIS will reduce their influence. We must increase the pressure. We must increase our presence wherever ISIS is. They will not stop until everyone is submissive to their utopia.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-14-16 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:12 PM
  #16683  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Pretty good article on what it's like for a reporter to cover the Trump campaign.

[excerpt]


The media has single-handedly has given life to Trump's candidacy. When they aren't busy falling all over themselves covering Trump himself, everyone they interview is asking them what they thought of what Trump said.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:17 PM
  #16684  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
But because we're pals, I'll help you to enjoy it to its fullest.
Let's watch Dick together
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Old 06-14-16, 01:19 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I'm saying that we are about to witness one of the most important political moments in our time. I think most people would enjoy it more if they knew it was coming. But some seem to prefer the surprise.

No evidence would suffice for you. Every bit of evidence that has come up has been scoffed at. Some can't even admit she is lying about it being allowed or that no emails had confidential markings, or that procedures didn't change until she left, all of which the OIG report confirmed are lies. That won't even qualify as evidence to you. So I'll let you just enjoy the fallout. But because we're pals, I'll help you to enjoy it to its fullest.
Trust me. Hillary Clinton knows the deal. And if she had any fears whatsoever, she'd drop out of the race. Do you really think her legal team doesn't know everything but armchair attorneys on Reddit know all?
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Old 06-14-16, 01:21 PM
  #16686  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
The media has single-handedly has given life to Trump's candidacy. When they aren't busy falling all over themselves covering Trump himself, everyone they interview is asking them what they thought of what Trump said.
The media is covering a train wreck. I'm sure they had no idea the carbon blobs™ would make him the GOP nominee.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:22 PM
  #16687  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
An increase in military presence, however you splice it, cut it, or interpret it, is going to be necessary to defeat ISIS and their influence. This isn't some gang in Chicago. And we've been treating it like it was for many years.

So, let's say the Pentagon said, "We're doing all we can." That's great. But it's a canned response that means nothing. One only has to look at the history of the Pentagon and how they've dealt with ISIS over the years. It's more political than it is military strategic. Not all military officials share the same opinions as the Pentagon.

In related news, another ISIS follower killed a French Cop in Paris, then tortured the wife in front of their toddler.

And then we hear US politicians and even our military officials says, "Well, we're doing all we can."

No. We are not doing all we can. This is going to get worse. More attacks are going to happen, and if some people are ok with being told that everything is fine and we're doing all we can...fine. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Many Americans are forced to get the second opinions from somebody like Trump...to get something going in a new direction. This should tell you how ineffective our politicians have been over the last 8 years (or more). Trump did not get this popular based on himself. He is where he is...because of other people agreeing with him, realizing things are terribly wrong.

ISIS is influencing people in very key geographic areas to attack. Reducing the presence of ISIS will reduce their influence. We must increase the pressure. We must increase our presence wherever ISIS is. They will not stop until everyone is submissive to their utopia.
If you think we should kill some guy who is an ISIS leader that we are not targeting today, say it. If you think that we should totally destroy some city or town, say it. If you think we should put 5000 troops on the ground, say it. And then explain why that will prevent another Orlando attack.

Until then you are just spewing nonsense, just like your candidate.

Last edited by Psi; 06-14-16 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:42 PM
  #16688  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

At this point, this campaign is entering the realm of the surreal to me. What can one say about this train wreck of ignorance, stupidity and spin? I can't believe I live in a world where a fascist clown like The Donald is the presumptive GOP nominee, where a (actually nice, honest guy but) scapegoating buffoon like Bernie Sanders is winning states and where a disgusting, amoral Washington shark like Hillary Clinton seems to be the only "adult" in the race. WTF. Based on this election we really are a bunch of children who have succeeded in locking ourselves in our own individual padded-room realities where everything is someone else's fault, anyone who doesn't believe exactly what we believe is crazy and everything that we mildly disagree with is offensive. It's embarrassing, infuriating and depressing. It actually makes me angry that people are this stupid.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:45 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

We need at least 275,000 US Troops, split between Syria and mostly northern Iraq.

Some might criticize the amount of potential US Troops dead, however, they signed up for exactly this type of job.

Examples of the some of the cities we need to physically take over...NOT DESTROY are: Rutba, Qalm, Sinjar, Tal Afar, Mosul, Dadush Dam, Sharqat, and many others in Iraq.

In Syria, the main city is Raqqa. We need to take it over. It is symbolic to ISIS. We need to strip their domination from this city. We need to HELP SYRIANS by allowing them to stay where they are, allowing to continue living in their homes, and destroy the ISIS presence there. NNE Syria is heavily ISIS controlled and occupied, and that's exactly where I'd put our US Troops. Aleppo is also an area that needs enforcement, somewhat in the NW area.

The US (and other countries if they want to help) needs to physically occupy these cities, and develop a continuous cleansing of ISIS presence and their teachings.

Baghdad is continually at risk for being taking over by an ISIS surprise. We need to fortify the area by making our presence much more solidified in cities north of Baghdad, which is were ISIS is dynamically moving around, retreating one month, then taking over another month. This needs to stop. We need to keep them on the run, not allowing them to come back to retake areas they previously controlled.

It's not about just "preventing _____ attack". I'm talking about preventing a future military attack plan, that ISIS will eventually carry out in the US. We're talking hundreds dead. Maybe thousands. We need to get ISIS into a state of survival...not from a state of command. We must reduce and completely fracture their commanding status.

If we do not, we are going to have groups of ISIS members, trained in areas that are currently occupied by them, and will be in contact with those in the US who can facilitate their arrival and preparation.

If one is of the opinion that we cannot stop any terrorist attack, then we might as well not even fight ISIS or any terrorist threat, and just let them do whatever they want.

But to think this is not going to get worse, is not looking at the attacks happening, slowly, and increasing in the numbers of US Citizens being killed. Do not think Orlando is period on the end of ISIS.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-14-16 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:53 PM
  #16690  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

OK, fair enough. I disagree, but at least that's a concrete proposal that people can debate. Keep in mind, our troop level in Iraq peaked at 170,000 during the Bush surge, so what you are proposing is 60% more than that.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:55 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

And this is why I'm glad Polizei is not our commander in chief.
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Old 06-14-16, 01:57 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
At this point, this campaign is entering the realm of the surreal to me. What can one say about this train wreck of ignorance, stupidity and spin? I can't believe I live in a world where a fascist clown like The Donald is the presumptive GOP nominee, where a (actually nice, honest guy but) scapegoating buffoon like Bernie Sanders is winning states and where a disgusting, amoral Washington shark like Hillary Clinton seems to be the only "adult" in the race. WTF. Based on this election we really are a bunch of children who have succeeded in locking ourselves in our own individual padded-room realities where everything is someone else's fault, anyone who doesn't believe exactly what we believe is crazy and everything that we mildly disagree with is offensive. It's embarrassing, infuriating and depressing. It actually makes me angry that people are this stupid.
Sounds like you are describing your own padded room, dude. "Amoral"??
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Old 06-14-16, 01:59 PM
  #16693  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

“We used to fact-check everything, every day,” another reporter told me, “but it gets hard to keep up.” For a writer filing on deadline an hour after a rally ends, there’s not enough time to thoroughly fact-check the dozens of fabrications that spilled from the stage. It’s also hard to know who the fact-checking is for. At this point, anyone who hates Trump has ample evidence he’s a liar. And anyone who loves Trump doesn’t care.
That doesn't surprise me. I've been thinking about that too. When candidates in the past made something up, there were usually only a few instances that were easy to run down. Trump has overloaded the system to the point that you can't fact check because by the time you get one speech torn apart, he's made 3 more with even more lies.

And they are right - obviously those who support him don't care so who's the fact checking for?
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Old 06-14-16, 02:00 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
The media has single-handedly has given life to Trump's candidacy. When they aren't busy falling all over themselves covering Trump himself, everyone they interview is asking them what they thought of what Trump said.
This is so true. The coverage helped him, and now they act like he has suddenly been a moron his entire life and they didn't notice.

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Let's watch Dick together
I have honestly never seen it, but based on the comments here, it sounds like I should. It's a date.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Trust me. Hillary Clinton knows the deal. And if she had any fears whatsoever, she'd drop out of the race. Do you really think her legal team doesn't know everything but armchair attorneys on Reddit know all?
Originally Posted by CRM114
Do you have any evidence of this?
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Old 06-14-16, 02:01 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

The Big O flips the fuck out...

Obama Excoriates Republican Obsession With The Term ‘Radical Islam’

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama on Tuesday forcefully rebuked Republicans who have berated him for refusing to characterize lone wolf terror attacks by Muslim individuals as acts of “radical Islam.”

Speaking from the Treasury Department two days after a Muslim man shot 49 people to death at a gay nightclub in Orlando after declaring allegiance to the self-described Islamic State group, the president challenged his detractors to identify a single tangible benefit of adjusting his choice of words to describe the attack.

“What exactly would using this label accomplish? What exactly would it change? Would it make ISIL less committed to try to kill Americans? Would it bring in more allies? Is there a military strategy that is served by this?” Obama asked rhetorically, using another name for the Islamic State.

“The answer is none of the above. Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away.”

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump accused Obama of being weak for refusing to describe Orlando shooter Omar Mateen and the perpetrators of last year’s shooting in San Bernardino, California, as part of the threat posed by “radical Islam.” Trump used Sunday’s tragedy as an opportunity to take credit for his previous pledge to ban Muslims from entering the U.S., and he reiterated that proposal in the wake of the shooting — even though Mateen was born in Trump’s home state of New York.

After Trump’s pestering, Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton broke from her earlier stance against using the term “radical Islam.” She said Monday that she is “happy to say” the phrase because it means the same thing as “radical jihadism,” a term she has used in the past.

But Obama stood firm. “Not once has an adviser of mine said, ‘Man, if we really use that phrase, we’re gonna turn this whole thing around.’ Not once,” he said.

Citing Republican lawmakers’ refusal to vote on gun control reforms that would limit access to military-grade weapons — and to confirm Acting Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence Adam Szubin — Obama said the GOP’s fixation on the term “radical Islam” was a “political distraction” from their own inaction.

Without mentioning the reality star by name, Obama homed in on Trump’s proposed ban on Muslim immigration to the U.S., warning of “sloppiness about who, exactly, we are fighting.”

Noting that both Mateen and Syed Rizwan Farook, one of the San Bernardino shooters, were U.S.-born citizens, Obama questioned whether Trump would eventually resort to treating Muslim Americans differently as well, possibly subjecting them to extra surveillance or discriminating against them based on their religion.

“Where does this stop?” he asked.

“Do Republican officials actually agree with this?” Obama continued, directly challenging Republican leadership to take a stand against Trump’s toxic proposals.

Circling back to his rejection of the term “radical Islam,” the president warned against rhetoric and policies that make Muslim Americans feel like they are constantly under suspicion.

“We have gone through moments in our history before when we acted out of fear, and we came to regret it,” he said.
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Old 06-14-16, 02:02 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Dick is a fantastic movie, I'm surprised more people here haven't seen it.
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Old 06-14-16, 02:02 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
OK, fair enough. I disagree, but at least that's a concrete proposal that people can debate. Keep in mind, our troop level in Iraq peaked at 170,000 during the Bush surge, so what you are proposing is 60% more than that.
Yes, the number is intentional. It's meant to expedite the surge of US troops, overwhelming ISIS presence, but also reducing the amount of time the US would have to keep such a high troop count in combat.
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Old 06-14-16, 02:05 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

“The answer is none of the above. Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away.”
Like referring to ISIL when everyone else calls them ISIS...
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Old 06-14-16, 02:13 PM
  #16699  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

If you look at the reasoning behind both, ISIL is definitely the more intelligent term to use. AND as the article states, its hard to believe one can denote an entire foreign policy from an acronym.
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Old 06-14-16, 02:15 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Dick is a fantastic movie, I'm surprised more people here haven't seen it.
Always looked like a chick flick to me.
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