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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 06-13-16, 05:03 PM
  #16601  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Donald Trump announced Monday afternoon that his campaign is “revoking the press credentials” of the Washington Post. Here’s his full statement on the matter, which he posted on Facebook:

Based on the incredibly inaccurate coverage and reporting of the record setting Trump campaign, we are hereby revoking the press credentials of the phony and dishonest Washington Post.
Ah yes, who else used tactics like this? Hmmm let me think...
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Old 06-13-16, 05:06 PM
  #16602  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
No one gives a shit about Assad. They give a shit about the location of Syria and how to capitalize on it. The Russians are protecting their gas pipeline competition. This is why we bother being in the Middle East. It's about money. If there were oil in Africa instead, we'd let the Middle East have their civil wars and we wouldn't do shit. And this is why Hillary wants Syria so bad. It fucks with Putin and makes her friends more money.

It's always the money. Once the oil is gone (or more likely. no longer competing with renewables), we won't give a shit again. Everything besides this being about money in one form or another is a distraction. And religion is the best distraction of all.
Most definitely. Assad is merely a very small blip on the superpowers' radar.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:09 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Donald Trump announced Monday afternoon that his campaign is “revoking the press credentials” of the Washington Post. Here’s his full statement on the matter, which he posted on Facebook:



Ah yes, who else used tactics like this? Hmmm let me think...
Obama? (Feb 2013)

Davis told WMAL that his editor, John Solomon, “received a phone call from a senior Obama White House official who didn’t like some of my columns, even though I’m a supporter of Obama. I couldn’t imagine why this call was made.” Davis says the Obama aide told Solomon, “that if he continued to run my columns, he would lose, or his reporters would lose their White House credentials.”
But I'm sure you were thinking of somebody else.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:13 PM
  #16604  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

On a side observation, and from hearing Josh Earnest speak, I really get the impression of the following theory:

If we acknowledge terrorists...they win. If we pay attention to them, they win. If we do not pay attention to them...they will go away.

To some extent, I agree. However, this is more to do with press coverage of terrorist events, so you can't say to the press..."Don't cover terrorist events."

For a US Government, to eliminate a threat...you have to acknowledge it.

Josh Earnest says ISIS calls themself a state because that's what they want and if we engage them as such a state...they win. Continue to minimize their presence, and they will go away.

What's interesting, is the Obama Administration behaves in the exact opposite way when speaking of gun legislation. Would it not be prudent to think that minimizing gun violence would actually reduce it? Instead of speaking about it at every possible turn and corner, minimize the discussion, thereby reducing publicity and authenticity?

Seems to me the Obama Administration has inconsistent policies, and on both fronts, are not gaining ground.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-13-16 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:41 PM
  #16605  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Over the weekend, Trump implied the sitting president has ties to terrorism, has told the American people to be afraid of problems only he can solve, and has revoked the press credentials of a reputable news source. All of these are directly out of the fascist playbook. How anyone can continue to support him is beyond me.

The only solace I can see here is that GOP donors are closing their hearts and wallets against Trump.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:42 PM
  #16606  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Did he say Obama was a sitting terrorist or are you inferring from his speech.

I will agree, it was not a good idea to revoke credentials of a news organization.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:47 PM
  #16607  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Read an article where Julian Assange had said he would be releasing some Hillary Clinton emails that were taken from her server. He didn't specify when or how many. Thought that was odd.

An hour later an article goes up about the Russians saying they were going to release her emails. The actual story says they obviously wouldn't do it, they'd release them to someone like wikileaks.

I know you guys don't believe this, but Putin will sabotage this whole thing if he has to because he doesn't want Hillary anywhere near the White House. The entire article was simply to say how frustrated they were in our slow process, and are starting to think Obama will bury this. I don't actually believe Obama knows anything. But I think that Comey was just put on notice. So does the FBI let them release it at some unknown time in the future (if it even exists, if you still believe that), or do they speed up? Interesting stuff.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:50 PM
  #16608  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

It's been rather apparent Hillary was not going to be indicted. Like I've said before, Hillary will be cleared BEFORE she gets the official nod at the DNC in July. The Obama Admin wants her to have a clean slate to fight Trump. They want any potential negative issues put to rest before she gets to the DNC convention.

And as I've said earlier, this will be a bonus for Hillary. She can say she has been cleared of any wrongdoing while accuse Trump of being involved with legal issues. He can shoot back...but she'll then say, "Ok, well the FBI said I did nothing wrong."

Comey was put on notice before he even got the case. Again, this was all a show for the American public. To make them believe there was an actual investigation...without biased interventions. Because if there was no investigation, there would be more questions.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:53 PM
  #16609  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Over the weekend, Trump implied the sitting president has ties to terrorism, has told the American people to be afraid of problems only he can solve, and has revoked the press credentials of a reputable news source. All of these are directly out of the fascist playbook. How anyone can continue to support him is beyond me.
The "establishment" (consisting of both major parties) has spent the last 2 decades (at least) demonizing the other party. After so much of that, people's senses and sensibilities are dulled so that they prefer that other people do the thinking for them. This is the culmination of that.

Add to that list: targeting a group of people within the country as the "enemy", and keeping a list of people and groups who aren't supportive to be targeted for retaliation.



Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
The only solace I can see here is that GOP donors are closing their hearts and wallets against Trump.
I take no comfort in that... not even a little. Because there are so many who support him that if he asked for money, they'd give. Then there's Hillary side of the equation. Although she won't be indicted, there may be something to latch onto that could hurt... heck, if there's nothing Trump will simply make it up... and people will believe him.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:58 PM
  #16610  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Over the weekend, Trump implied the sitting president has ties to terrorism, has told the American people to be afraid of problems only he can solve, and has revoked the press credentials of a reputable news source. All of these are directly out of the fascist playbook. How anyone can continue to support him is beyond me.

The only solace I can see here is that GOP donors are closing their hearts and wallets against Trump.
That's a classic move. "He hasn't stopped terrorism. I can only guess that he supports it."

I haven't heard Trump publically express opposition to Catholic priests raping young boys. I can only guess that he has other motivations.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:16 PM
  #16611  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Read an article where Julian Assange had said he would be releasing some Hillary Clinton emails that were taken from her server. He didn't specify when or how many. Thought that was odd.

An hour later an article goes up about the Russians saying they were going to release her emails. The actual story says they obviously wouldn't do it, they'd release them to someone like wikileaks.

I know you guys don't believe this, but Putin will sabotage this whole thing if he has to because he doesn't want Hillary anywhere near the White House. The entire article was simply to say how frustrated they were in our slow process, and are starting to think Obama will bury this. I don't actually believe Obama knows anything. But I think that Comey was just put on notice. So does the FBI let them release it at some unknown time in the future (if it even exists, if you still believe that), or do they speed up? Interesting stuff.
If Putin is trying scare tactics to stop Hillary from being elected (and by extension getting Trump elected), that to me is all the more reason to vote for Hillary. At this point, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I take no comfort in that... not even a little. Because there are so many who support him that if he asked for money, they'd give. Then there's Hillary side of the equation. Although she won't be indicted, there may be something to latch onto that could hurt... heck, if there's nothing Trump will simply make it up... and people will believe him.
Bernie had a nice showing without taking big amounts from corporate donors, but I don't think Trump musters the same kind of enthusiasm. Plus, even if Trump made the same amount Bernie did through only personal donations, he'd still come up way short of Hillary's $1 billion+ campaign spending.

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
That's a classic move. "He hasn't stopped terrorism. I can only guess that he supports it."

I haven't heard Trump publically express opposition to Catholic priests raping young boys. I can only guess that he has other motivations.
Didn't Trump have an altercation on Twitter with the Pope?
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Old 06-13-16, 06:30 PM
  #16612  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Didn't Trump have an altercation on Twitter with the Pope?
At this point, it's probably just easier to list the people he hasn't gone after on Twitter.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:37 PM
  #16613  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
If Putin is trying scare tactics to stop Hillary from being elected (and by extension getting Trump elected), that to me is all the more reason to vote for Hillary. At this point, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I'm not trying to change your mind. Just predicting the future. But if it is shown that her emails were open to other governments during her tenure, could Obama stop Republicans from (rightfully) demanding an indictment? I think it is fascinating to watch. Does it force the FBI's hand? Or does it make them wait so they can catch her in more denials of the facts?

As a point in history, I think we will look back at this as significant.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:42 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post

Didn't Trump have an altercation on Twitter with the Pope?
Not on that issue. He took a strong stand with the Pope but never denounced child rape. I can only assume he has has other motivations.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:45 PM
  #16615  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Good lord.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Saudi Arabia and many of the countries that gave vast amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation- cont'd: <a href="https://t.co/t31ReRSzzy">https://t.co/t31ReRSzzy</a></p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742469778560929793">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
******** async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">*********>
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Old 06-13-16, 07:04 PM
  #16616  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I know you guys don't believe this, but Putin will sabotage this whole thing if he has to because he doesn't want Hillary anywhere near the White House. The entire article was simply to say how frustrated they were in our slow process, and are starting to think Obama will bury this. I don't actually believe Obama knows anything. But I think that Comey was just put on notice. So does the FBI let them release it at some unknown time in the future (if it even exists, if you still believe that), or do they speed up? Interesting stuff.
Are you sitting at your computer smoking weed and making stuff up? Is it fun?
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Old 06-13-16, 07:15 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Are you sitting at your computer smoking weed and making stuff up? Is it fun?
He is certainly smoking weed, but I doubt he's sitting at his computer while he does.

As for "making stuff up", where do you you think the ceiling cats come from?
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Old 06-13-16, 07:17 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

I was sitting at my computer smoking weed. I was not making it up. Fuckers, I'll go find them.
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Old 06-13-16, 07:20 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I was sitting at my computer smoking weed. I was not making it up. Fuckers, I'll go find them.
You are the one true King. Teach me.
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Old 06-13-16, 07:21 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Russia Is Reportedly Set To Release Clinton's Intercepted Emails

WikiLeaks to publish more Hillary Clinton emails - Julian Assange

I was also auditing three months of bank account reconciliations for the business from home, and nailed that shit.

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Old 06-13-16, 07:21 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

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Old 06-13-16, 07:25 PM
  #16622  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

kvr laughing at his own posts now, puffing away.
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Old 06-13-16, 07:46 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...orlando-224289

Pentagon rebukes Trump proposal for more airstrikes
By Bryan Bender and Austin Wright

Donald Trump's assertion Monday that more airstrikes are needed in Iraq and Syria to prevent terrorist attacks like the mass shooting in Orlando drew rebukes from the Pentagon and others across the political spectrum who have prosecuted the war on terrorism — including some who warned it could make matters worse.

"We have to really increase the bombings," the presumptive Republican presidential nominee told "Fox and Friends" after he was asked about the Islamic State's claim of credit for the attack by an American Muslim who pledged his allegiance to the group during the massacre that killed 49 people and wounded 53 others.

Trump also asserted that unnamed military leaders agree with him. "We have generals who think we can win this thing so fast and so strong but we have to be furious for a short period of time and we're not doing it," he said.

But the position that more airstrikes are the answer to the worst mass shooting in American history was not widely supported among those with direct experience

"I don't see how Orlando would cause us to change our operations. We're already at war with ISIL, and are already working to accelerate that campaign wherever we can," said Pentagon spokesman Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, who was asked about the need for a different war strategy and not specifically about Trump's remarks.

The Pentagon's recent top adviser on the military campaign went further, arguing Trump's proposal could make the homegrown Islamic terror threat worse.

“I fundamentally disagree," said retired Army Lt. Gen. Mick Bednarek, who served as the chief U.S. military adviser in Iraq from 2013 to 2015. "The bottom line is [more bombing] has absolutely no bearing on individuals like Omar Mateen in Orlando, who obviously had some mental issues — like his absolute hatred of gays, lesbians and transgender community. Just wantonly increasing bombing against extremist radical groups in Iraq, Syria, etc. is not going to have a bearing on individuals in the United States and change their behavior.”

"It is completely apples and oranges," Bednarek added. "I think the presumptive Republican nominee has really not thought through second-order effects of his perspective of what would truly make a difference to stem the tide of these challenges."

Mateen was killed in a police shootout.

Juan Zarate, a top terrorism adviser to then-President George W. Bush, also questioned Trump's logic.

"There is no question that you have to deny the Islamic State sanctuary and the sense of momentum in order to deflate their ideology and attractiveness," he said.

Yet, "it is hard though to make a causal link," added Zarate, the former deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism. "It's hard to say disruption [on the battlefield] would have mattered. The ideology is already in the ether and just needs to find the right host."

Others who have advocated a more muscular approach against Islamic terrorist groups expressed similar doubts that military action thousands of miles away could have any effect in preventing attacks at home inspired by ISIL or other terrorist groups.

"Nothing we could do now in Iraq and Syria would make a difference right now,” Fred Kagan, director of the Critical Threats Project at the hawkish American Enterprise Institute, said in an interview.

Kagan — who was a leading architect of the so-called surge of U.S. military forces in Iraq in 2007 when the precursor to the Islamic State , Al Qaeda in Iraq, was at its height — supports a larger U.S. military role in Iraq and Syria to deprive ISIL of its sanctuaries in Iraq and Syria and unravel the narrative that it's on the march.

But he insists that it must be part of a "global strategy" that also focuses much more attention on other radical Salafist Muslim groups, including Al Qaeda, which in his view has gained strength in recent years.

Others were unapologetic in their criticism of Trump’s tough talk about more military action.

"Donald Trump doesn't understand the first thing about counterterrorism,” said Daniel Benjamin, who was coordinator for counterterrorism at the State Department from 2009 to 2012. "He is jaw droppingly ignorant. First of all, Mateen was clearly radicalized in the United States. While he appears to have once signaled his support for ISIS in the midst of this attack, there is no evidence whatsoever that there is any deeper relationship involving command and control from ISIS."

He argued the Islamic State, which has been the target of an increasingly lethal U.S.-led military campaign for nearly two years involving growing numbers of special forces and military advisers, is "in retreat across many fronts."

"The administration is going after every target it can find,” he added. “If we were to start bombing recklessly and killing lots of civilians that would not help us in the fight against extremism. As we have seen from history, it would only result in the radicalization of more people and if anything heighten the threat."


On Trump's assertion there are generals who agree with him, Benjamin said he believes "there may be some out-of-the-loop generals who are beating their chest. But those who are involved are pretty confident this military action is a pretty wise and responsible way."

"Absent a [U.S.] force on the ground of major proportions, he added, "this is how ISIS is going to be reduced."

Colin Clarke, a political scientist at the government-funded Rand Corporation, cited reports that Mateen said in a 911 call from the scene of the shooting in a popular gay night club that his actions were in retaliation for U.S. military strikes in Syria.

"People say they attack us because they hate us. They attack us because they disagree with our foreign policy," Clarke said in an interview.

He also cited the case of a U.S. citizen born in Pakistan who in 2010 tried unsuccessfully tried to detonate a car bomb in New York's Times Square, claiming he sought to retaliate for U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan.

"I don't think we should underplay how much [U.S. military action overseas] drives people to attack or attempt to attack," added Clarke, who recently co-authored a paper outlining how the military success against the group in Iraq and Syria could drive more attacks elsewhere.

"Homegrown attacks are almost a byproduct of military success," he said. "The more you clog up the foreign fighter pipeline going to Iraq and Syria the more likely they are to stay where they are — whether that is in Europe or the United States."

Mike Morrell, a 30-year veteran of the CIA who retired as acting director in 2013, said the simplistic approach put forward by Trump is insufficient.

"ISIS must be defeated in Iraq and Syria and in the other areas where it has metastasized if we are to end its ability to radicalize young men and women in the US and around the world," he told POLITICO. "So, it is correct to imply that the root of homegrown terrorism is overseas and that it must be dealt with there. But it is wrong to imply that bombing ISIS strongholds is sufficient to achieve our aims. This is much more complicated than Mr. Trump implied."
It becomes more and more clear that Trump's positions will lead to complete and utter disasters domestically and abroad. Already there's a litany of voices disagreeing with him on virtually everything he says, but that hasn't stopped him. What makes anyone think he'll be more reasonable once he's elected and has actual power behind his words?

And the funny thing is that people who claim we aren't doing enough to stop ISIS/ISIL have no clue about what's already being done. They just buy into Trump's lies wholeheartedly and repeat it like it's gospel truth. No critical thinking necessary.
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Old 06-13-16, 07:49 PM
  #16624  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

I read a few news articles over the weekend and couldn't believe the absurdity of comments sections, so I decided to venture out in search of a more reasonable discourse.

I didn't know what i would find when i thought of this place and typed in the url. I half expected it to be completely unrecognizable. It warms my heart to see you guys here, still carrying the torch.
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Old 06-13-16, 08:00 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: come for the anger, stay for the Hüsker Dü

Originally Posted by BigPete View Post
I read a few news articles over the weekend and couldn't believe the absurdity of comments sections, so I decided to venture out in search of a more reasonable discourse.

I didn't know what i would find when i thought of this place and typed in the url. I half expected it to be completely unrecognizable. It warms my heart to see you guys here, still carrying the torch.
Draft dodger Trump knows more about military strategy than those pansies at the Pentagon.
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