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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 05-19-16, 12:09 AM
  #14251  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You are a broken record. How many times have I said I'm not a Hillary supporter? Your answer to everything is "Well what about Hillary!"
It's the Tu Quoque fallacy.
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Old 05-19-16, 12:11 AM
  #14252  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It seems as if Hillary is the only candidate who needs to be protected from the public.
It seems your memory is poor. Trump backed out of a Fox News debate scheduled for March 21 and then refused to debate for the next 6 weeks. From March 10 until May 3 (Indiana primary), there were no debates.

And unlike the Democratic debates, few of the GOP debates involved small groups and sustained discussions. Trump sloganeered, insulted, and rambled his way to "victories" in the eyes of his supporters without ever being required to provide specifics about his ideas or support for his claims.
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Old 05-19-16, 12:12 AM
  #14253  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Norm de Plume View Post
It's the Tu Quoque fallacy.
Interesting, I haven't heard of that one. The appeal to hypocrisy. Sounds right for a Trump supporter.
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Old 05-19-16, 04:50 AM
  #14254  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Norm de Plume View Post
You seem like a good guy, but the demonization of Nader is totally unreasonable. In a democracy he had every right to run. Don't blame Nader for Gore's loss; blame the 50 million people who voted for Bush.
Gore didn't lose because of Nader. Or rather, Gore still would have won in spite of Nader but for one stupid little thing.



In Palm Beach County, Florida the Butterfly Ballot almost certainly confused enough people in the county to vote for Pat Buchanan instead of Gore. In a highly Jewish (many of them elderly) area, Buchanan got (IIRC) nearly 3000 votes. Gore lost Florida by around 500-600. Also, Buchanan got a much higher percentage of votes in Palm Beach County than just about anywhere else. It is so unlikely that all (or even more than a small number) of those votes were intended to be for Buchanan as to be virtually impossible.

Also, remember that the state was first called for Gore? The media got blamed for being premature and wrong but I don't think they were based on their exit polls. People who had accidentally voted for Buchanan undoubtedly told the exit pollsters that they voted for Gore.

Based on the intention of voters, Gore probably would have won Florida by about 2000 votes. Of course, they have to go by what is actually marked on the ballots.

I do think this tiny little stupid ballot (which county and party officials signed off on) changed the outcome of one of the closest presidential races in our history.

Edited to add:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wmebane/butterfly.pdf

Last edited by movielib; 05-19-16 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 05-19-16, 08:18 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Michael Tomasky
Leftists like Sanders regard the Democratic Party as a far bigger problem in the world than the Republican Party. The thinking goes like this: The Republicans, sure, everybody knows they’re evil. That’s obvious. But the Democrats, they’re evil too. They adopt a few attractive positions, say nice things on certain issues as long as saying those nice things doesn’t really threaten the established economic order, so they’re even worse, finally, because they fool people into thinking they’re on their side. I heard this a hundred times from the old guys who used to hector me at the Socialist Scholars Conference in Manhattan 25 years ago when I used to speak there.

That’s what Bernie is. If he’d stayed in Brooklyn, he’d have been a Social Scholars Conference hectorer. He had the wisdom to move to a podunk state, and the luck to do so just as it was becoming the place where all the aging hippies were moving, and so he became a mayor and then a House member and, finally and exaltedly, a senator.
Bernie and Jane Sanders: The Democratic Party’s Thelma and Louise
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Old 05-19-16, 09:16 AM
  #14256  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
You do realize that with current polling today Sanders leads Trump +13 whereas Clinton only leads him +5. So... where are you getting this idea that Hillary has so much of a better chance of beating him?
Where did I say I believe that? I never have but I do know that Bernie is enjoying an extended honeymoon.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:18 AM
  #14257  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
He's deporting 11 million <b>people</b>
11 million legal citizens and/or people with legal work permits/visas? Egads! @!

This type of unconstitutional action must be stopped.

What's next? Closing the borders?
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Old 05-19-16, 09:21 AM
  #14258  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
If Trump wins, then this country deserves him. Not much to do about those who won't vote for him but will suffer the consequences of a Trump presidency... but that's life.

Trump supporters will then spin the yarn of the "road not taken" by claiming things would be much worse if Clinton won.
I just cannot fathom what is happening. I get the desire for an insurgent candidate from the outside but I don't get that THIS is the guy people are trusting with unlimited power. Donald Trump, the "you're fired!" guy from TV. He is so poorly informed and so inadequately prepared for the job, there is no other outcome but a bad one. Why not at least run a business man or woman that also knows domestic and foreign policy well?
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Old 05-19-16, 09:28 AM
  #14259  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I just cannot fathom what is happening. I get the desire for an insurgent candidate from the outside but I don't get that THIS is the guy people are trusting with unlimited power. Donald Trump, the "you're fired!" guy from TV. He is so poorly informed and so inadequately prepared for the job, there is no other outcome but a bad one. Why not at least run a business man or woman that also knows domestic and foreign policy well?
In a once in a 100 year event, movielib agrees with CRM114.

We cannot agree again until 2116.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:31 AM
  #14260  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Where did I say I believe that? I never have but I do know that Bernie is enjoying an extended honeymoon.
I thought you had. If not I apologize. I know lots of Dems who are voting for Hillary because they feel she has the best chance of winning. I don't think that's correct. I think Sanders has a much better chance against Trump. In fact, in national polling, Sanders has been holding pretty steady while Hillary has been dropping in the polls. However I'd prefer Hillary over Sanders because I think Hillary is at least realistic about how things can be done. Sanders is a bunch of people's pipe dream.. but I think they'll vote for that.

I like how both parties are in disarray and fighting among themselves. Hopefully some real change will come out of it..
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Old 05-19-16, 09:43 AM
  #14261  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Sanders has benefitted from a softball press corps that has been more itnerested in talking about the horse race than his policy proposals, and from an opposing candidate who has been treating him with kid gloves.
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Old 05-19-16, 09:46 AM
  #14262  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

I wonder which third party candidate will siphon off more votes - Gary Johnson, or Jill Stein?
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Old 05-19-16, 09:58 AM
  #14263  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I wonder which third party candidate will siphon off more votes - Gary Johnson, or Jill Stein?
Well, in 2012, Gary Johnson got .99% of the vote and Jill Stein got .36% of the vote. Johnson probably will when he gets to 1.1% of the vote.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:05 AM
  #14264  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

I'm actually surprised at how high this number actually is. Like I've said before, people around here look at the PR immigrants as invaders who I assume they believe Trump is going to kick out.

Most Americans Don’t Know Puerto Ricans Are American

Fewer than half of Americans know Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, a new poll shows. The results reflect a stark reality about the nation’s awareness of the Caribbean territory and the island’s financial crisis.

The Economist-YouGov survey of 2,000 U.S. citizens aged 18 and older, conducted from May 6 to 9, found just 43 percent of Americans knew the citizenship status of Puerto Ricans. And 41 percent said the island’s residents were simply Puerto Rican, presumably assuming the territory is a sovereign country. The remaining 15 percent said they were unsure of nationality.

However, Puerto Ricans have held American citizenship since 1917, are able to carry American passports and can enter the U.S. mainland freely. Residents of the island can’t vote for a president unless they move to one of the 50 states, but they can send delegates to the party conventions.

Regardless, lawmakers have been reluctant to help Puerto Rico deal with growing financial woes this year.

The territory has been struggling to make payments on more than $72 billion in debt and the government defaulted on most of a $422 million payment this month.
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Old 05-19-16, 10:43 AM
  #14265  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Donald not too happy about this ad:

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Old 05-19-16, 11:00 AM
  #14266  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

It's a hilariously stupid ad. Creative, however. Definitely wreaks of the anti-Bernie and anti-Trump folks.

Won't do much but keep the anti-T people satiated and stuck in their corners with Hillary pacifiers in their mouths.

Just wait until we get Bill Clinton ads and Hillary's behavior in dealing with woman when she was First Lady.

Some say, well, Bill should be off limits. Sorry. Hillary just put him ON LIMITS when she readily admitted Bill was going to take a US Government office. Hillary effectively said her running mate was Bill Clinton.

Gloves are now officially off, baby.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:08 AM
  #14267  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Sanders has benefitted from a softball press corps that has been more itnerested in talking about the horse race than his policy proposals, and from an opposing candidate who has been treating him with kid gloves.
You think this is ratings thing? Obviously the networks get more viewers if there's a horse-race... Perhaps the media is keeping this alive more than anyone else?
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Old 05-19-16, 11:08 AM
  #14268  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Most Americans Don’t Know Puerto Ricans Are American.
What the hell is a Puerto Rican? I thought that all people in the US who spoke Spanish came from Mexico.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:09 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Trump was going after President Clinton well before Hillary said anything about a role in her governing. He crassly attacked a candidates spouse and is attempting to paint Hillary as some sort of accomplice. Disgusting.
I wonder what those Melania ads will look like?
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Old 05-19-16, 11:14 AM
  #14270  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Jaymole View Post
Donald not too happy about this ad:
Too bad they disabled the comments on that video's YT page - would've been entertaining.

But yeah, as good as it is, it's only preaching to the choir. Trump supporters aren't changing their minds. It's just like what Trump said himself; he could shoot someone in the middle of Manhattan in broad daylight and his support would only rise.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:22 AM
  #14271  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Yep. I saw last night that 62% of Republican women support Trump (that number may be off but it was over 60%). I can bet you 90% will support him by November. The Republican electorate has just thrown all caution to the wind and said "fuck it, I'll play dice with the country". The Republicans were supposed to be the studious, careful ones.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:23 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Trump was going after President Clinton well before Hillary said anything about a role in her governing. He crassly attacked a candidates spouse and is attempting to paint Hillary as some sort of accomplice. Disgusting.
I wonder what those Melania ads will look like?
I don't think there's any doubt that Bill has and would continue to attack Trump during this campaign. In fact, in March, the guardian reported that Bill would LEAD the attacking on Trump while Hillary stayed "above the fray". So this was all going to happen eventually.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:24 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Trump was going after President Clinton well before Hillary said anything about a role in her governing. He crassly attacked a candidates spouse and is attempting to paint Hillary as some sort of accomplice. Disgusting.
I wonder what those Melania ads will look like?
Well, let's not tattle to the teacher on who started it first, but let's just say Bill is in it. Hillary put her seal of approval on it.

Hillary wants to play the Woman Is An Object card? Oh, let's play!

And I'd welcome a Melania ad any day. They will look very nice.

Wanna see Hillary in a full spread?

Didn't think so.

And neither does America.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:31 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Yep. I saw last night that 62% of Republican women support Trump (that number may be off but it was over 60%). I can bet you 90% will support him by November. The Republican electorate has just thrown all caution to the wind and said "fuck it, I'll play dice with the country". The Republicans were supposed to be the studious, careful ones.
Don't you mean the Democrats were supposed to be the calm and intellectual ones? You can't deny the hypocrisy of a party who went out of their way to paint Republicans in Red & Violent colors for several months with Trump as the violent man in charge.

"Look at those Republicans! They aren't even organized!"

And now it's Republicans who are mostly chilling out and using what pea-brains they have (after putting their Bibles in the kitchen drawer) to know if they split, Hillary has a much better chance of winning.

Too bad Democrats are a little late to this observations. Maybe it's a common core thing.
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Old 05-19-16, 11:38 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

I'm surprised that Trump is going after Bill Clinton about his treatment of women, considering there's a divorce deposition where his wife at the time accuses him of raping her.
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