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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 05-18-16, 02:46 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
No, they are not. "Pledged delegate" has a specific meaning in the Democratic primaries, and it is distinct from "superdelegate".
You are right but I should have phrased it "pledged support". For instance, there is no way Ed Rendell is changing his "pledged support" for HRC unless something dramatic happened. There is no way Bill Clinton is is changing his "pledged support" for HRC, period. Telling Bernie people that these people are malleable is disingenuous too.

For that, they get accused of being sexist, racist, aggressive violence-mongers, bigots, women haters.
Who's getting "accused" that isn't actually acting in that way? The Bernie people are acting childish like the Ron Paul morons. To top it off, they become violent to the point that in Nevada, it was very close to becoming out of control.
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Old 05-18-16, 02:49 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Go BernieBros! Bern it all down!!
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Old 05-18-16, 02:50 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Yeah, because we want a fucking slimy stooge from reality TV to be President.

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Old 05-18-16, 02:52 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If you know the difference, why do you keep using "pledged" to refer to unpledged superdelegates? That is absolutely disingenuous. You are trying to conflate two separate things.
I'm not trying to conflate anything and again it is not disingenuous.

The SDs that the Press keeps associating with Clinton and Sanders for that matter have publicly stated they are supporting one or the other. Do you think the Press is just picking the numbers out of the air? Let me answer for you, the answer is No. The Press has interviewed the SDs and the SDs have told them who they are supporting at that time so the press reported them as pledging their support for a candidate.

Sure they can change their mind down the road but as of right now they have PLEDGED support for a candidate.

You are playing a game of absurd semantics and you are losing.
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Old 05-18-16, 02:55 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Yeah, because we want a fucking slimy stooge from reality TV to be President.
You do realize that with current polling today Sanders leads Trump +13 whereas Clinton only leads him +5. So... where are you getting this idea that Hillary has so much of a better chance of beating him?
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Old 05-18-16, 03:26 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Calling people names and shaming them works for a time,...
It got Trump all the way to the nomination.
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Old 05-18-16, 03:37 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
It got Trump all the way to the nomination.
Yeah, but look at his target audience.
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Old 05-18-16, 04:32 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Come back to this thread in three hours because I will be announcing my nominees for the Supreme Court since I have a better chance at beating Clinton than Trump does.
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Old 05-18-16, 04:56 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It's interesting you're now equating Trump and Bernie supporters into one group, and these groups are the only people who are demanding change instead of going along and pretending like everything is just peachy. For that, they get accused of being sexist, racist, aggressive violence-mongers, bigots, women haters.

Calling people names and shaming them works for a time, but eventually, it won't do anything and people will start to see a pattern. That pattern...is Hillary. And many are choosing to not follow that pattern.
No, I accuse them of being sexist, racist, aggressive violence-mongers, bigots, and women haters due to the sexist, racist, violent, bigoted, and anti-women things that Trump has said.
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Old 05-18-16, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You're a third party candidate!? Cool! What's your platform?
Um...free beer for all?
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Old 05-18-16, 05:06 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Um...free beer for all?
That's pretty close to the Sanders platform.
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Old 05-18-16, 05:07 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Um...free beer for all?
And watch breweries go bankrupt, making all those employees go jobless, and in the end leaving us with no beer at all. You're a horrible president!
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Old 05-18-16, 05:08 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
That's pretty close to the Sanders platform.
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Old 05-18-16, 05:15 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by stvn1974 View Post
Come back to this thread in three hours because I will be announcing my nominees for the Supreme Court since I have a better chance at beating Clinton than Trump does.
New poll has Trump at 45% and Clinton at 42%. Not that it means much, but all the Clinton-Beats-Trump-In-The-Polls! people can maybe sit down and think about stuff. Might even have a Bernie Beer while they're at it.
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Old 05-18-16, 05:18 PM
  #14215  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
And watch breweries go bankrupt, making all those employees go jobless, and in the end leaving us with no beer at all. You're a horrible president!
Obviously, you're not Progressive enough, because I was thinking...

Obamabeer.

Free Obamabeer for all. You get to choose your own favorite beer, and won't lose that brand you love when the new plan takes effect.

Sound familiar?
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Old 05-18-16, 05:24 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
New poll has Trump at 45% and Clinton at 42%. Not that it means much, but all the Clinton-Beats-Trump-In-The-Polls! people can maybe sit down and think about stuff. Might even have a Bernie Beer while they're at it.
Link?

And what do you think those people are going to think about? Sure, Trump's a racist blowhard misogynist who has demeaned women for years but emailsBenghazicoalminers!?!?!
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Old 05-18-16, 05:35 PM
  #14217  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

It was a Fox News poll, and yes I'm certainly not the first to be critical of them. However, they've been consistently polling Trump as losing to Hillary.

No more.

Yes, things can change, and I won't say they won't. But this is something starting to break the surface of what could be to come. Trump is much more competition than what Hillary supporters and Anti-Trumpers believe.

Eventually, you won't have enough time to type that long word because Hillary will have so much baggage coming out.

But hey, I fell for you. I created a simple template you can use, and you can easily just insert the latest problems Hillary has.

emailsBenghazicoalminers[insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here][insert subject here]!!!!!999666
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Old 05-18-16, 05:38 PM
  #14218  
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Obviously, you're not Progressive enough, because I was thinking...

Obamabeer.

Free Obamabeer for all. You get to choose your own favorite beer, and won't lose that brand you love when the new plan takes effect.

Sound familiar?
No, "Obamabeer" never pretended to be free. It was the same price, and rising, just more widely available.
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Old 05-18-16, 05:56 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
New poll has Trump at 45% and Clinton at 42%. Not that it means much, but all the Clinton-Beats-Trump-In-The-Polls! people can maybe sit down and think about stuff. Might even have a Bernie Beer while they're at it.
The latest poll I've seen is the Gravis poll which shows them at 2% margin.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/doc...n_May_2016.pdf

I, however, give poll averages instead of sticking with one particular poll. The gives Clinton a 3.9% lead (down from 5% from just a few hours ago). She was at 7.5% just 3 weeks ago.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:06 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It was a Fox News poll, and yes I'm certainly not the first to be critical of them. However, they've been consistently polling Trump as losing to Hillary.

No more.

Yes, things can change, and I won't say they won't. But this is something starting to break the surface of what could be to come. Trump is much more competition than what Hillary supporters and Anti-Trumpers believe.
If Trump wins, then this country deserves him. Not much to do about those who won't vote for him but will suffer the consequences of a Trump presidency... but that's life.

Trump supporters will then spin the yarn of the "road not taken" by claiming things would be much worse if Clinton won.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:10 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
If Trump wins, then this country deserves him. Not much to do about those who won't vote for him but will suffer the consequences of a Trump presidency... but that's life.

Trump supporters will then spin the yarn of the "road not taken" by claiming things would be much worse if Clinton won.
And anytime anything bad happens then Hillary supporters would blame Trump and say there would be total peace and happiness if Hillary had been elected. In other words.. same crap we see every election. Nothing new here.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:15 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
And anytime anything bad happens then Hillary supporters would blame Trump and say there would be total peace and happiness if Hillary had been elected. In other words.. same crap we see every election. Nothing new here.
I disagree. This IS new. I can't recall a presidential election in my lifetime when both candidates were completely void of any integrity. Neither have any redeeming qualities.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:23 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
If Trump wins, then this country deserves him. Not much to do about those who won't vote for him but will suffer the consequences of a Trump presidency... but that's life.

Trump supporters will then spin the yarn of the "road not taken" by claiming things would be much worse if Clinton won.
And Hillary supporters deserve everything they get? Won't Hillary supporters do their spinning the very second Trump gets into office? Won't Hillary and her supporters, the very millisecond one single American dies overseas, there will be protests and public appeals like never before seen.

But yet some will ask..."Why wasn't Hillary this actively involved when she was IN OFFICE..."
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Old 05-18-16, 06:37 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

This pretty accurately represents my thinking.

http://reason.com/archives/2016/05/1...of-two-evils-i

Why Voting for the Lesser of Two Evils Is a Waste of Your Vote
I've voted for Republicans for president before. No more.
Jeffrey A. Singer | May 18, 2016

Although my personal political philosophy is libertarian, like most people, over the years I have surrendered to the binary choice our two-party system gives us when casting my vote in presidential elections. I almost always find myself settling for a "lesser of two evils," but the "evil" is not so great as to prevent me from rationalizing what amounts to, by my vote, an endorsement or affirmation of the candidate.

Because at least rhetorically, the Republican party candidate promises a greater commitment to limited, constitutional government, entitlement reform, tackling the national debt, and a belief in the benefits of free trade, I have voted for the Republican candidate for president ever since Ronald Reagan. The Republicans repeatedly disappoint on matters of foreign policy, seeing the US as world policeman. But the Democrats fare little better on foreign policy—sometimes even worse. So foreign policy as a vote-determining factor between the two major parties tended to be a wash for me. I often profoundly disagree with the Republicans on many of the "culture war" and so-called social issues, but I have had confidence that our Constitution and judiciary will defend against any overreach by Republicans in that area.

So as a matter of practicality, I have tended to base my vote on the differences between the two major party candidates on matters of economic liberty and commitment to the principles of federalism and limited government. I recognize the politicians in both political parties have differing promises but similar results: bigger government, greater debt, less individual liberty. But I use the party platforms and the candidates' rhetoric to help in my rationalization (some would say self-delusion) that I am voting for someone who will, at best, move things in a better direction or, at worst, be a lesser of two evils that I can live with.

Not so this year. The 2016 offerings of both major parties are so flawed, so authoritarian, so inclined to disregard the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and expand executive power, that even "pretzel logic" will not allow me to rationalize a choice between them.

I still wish to participate in the electoral process. Choosing not to vote is always an option. But I prefer to express my opinion in a less passive manner. Not voting certainly provides the satisfaction of knowing that I did not sanction or legitimize the offerings of the two major parties. But that satisfaction is only personal and private. I want to more actively make my views known. Using the following chain of logic, I have found a positive way to express myself through, what I believe, is the most effective allocation of my vote in November:

1) According to Professor Ilya Somin in Democracy and Political Ignorance,my vote has, on average, a roughly 1 in 60 million chance of being the decisive vote in the Presidential election. (It might be a great as 1 in 10 million in my relatively small state of Arizona. It would have a roughly 1 in a billion chance of being decisive if I lived in California.)

2) If I vote for the lesser of evils and hold my nose, my vote is blended in with millions of others—there is no way to register my dissatisfaction with the choices the two major parties have given me. There is no way to separate those who voted for a lesser of two evils from those who voted because they actually LIKED the candidate.

3) If I vote for the Libertarian party candidate, I am directly affecting the vote total of that candidate. Because that candidate will get fewer total votes than the major party candidates, when all votes are totaled up, I will have had a greater effect on raising the total percentage of votes for the Libertarian candidate. If the Libertarian candidate garners say, 5 percent of the vote as opposed to 1 percent, then my vote made a greater impact in making a statement than it would have if it was folded in with the 40 or 50 million voters who voted for a major party candidate.

4) If the Libertarian candidate gets say, 5 percent of the vote, then that clearly means that 5 percent of the voters chose a candidate that they KNEW had absolutely no chance of winning, rather than choosing the lesser of two evils. What's more, they chose the candidate with the most pro-freedom, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights program. That sends a clear message.

Therefore:

5) By casting my vote for the Libertarian presidential candidate, my vote is actually more meaningful and makes more of a statement.

My conclusion: Voting for the lesser of two evils is statistically and strategically wasting my vote. I will vote Libertarian for president this year. This rationale does not necessarily apply to how I will vote in the down ballot races, where my vote has a greater numerical impact, I have a greater ability to directly communicate my views, and I might have less marked dissatisfaction with many of the candidates.

I offer my line of reasoning as a guide to others who might be agonizing over their decision this year.
I'm somewhat different from Mr Singer. I voted Democratic in 1968, 1972 and 1976. That was when I was a liberal. I voted Libertarian in 1980. Then I didn't vote for thirty years. I voted Republican for governor and senator (and other things) in 2010. In 2012 I voted for Romney (without being all that enamored with him - still, he was better than McCain).

I will vote Republican downballot in 2016 but, like Mr Singer, I will not vote for Trump or Clinton (or any other Democrat). I will also probably vote Libertarian (if it is Gary Johnson - I don't like the other two Libertarian contenders).

But overall, I agree with his reasoning.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:59 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread: Now with more pics & less abortion!

5) By casting my vote for the Libertarian presidential candidate, my vote is actually more meaningful and makes more of a statement.
I don't get it ... "making more of a statement" may give you the warm fuzzies deep down inside, but what does it actually accomplish?
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