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The 2016 Presidential Election thread - it's over? edition

Old 07-20-15, 11:21 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Trump isnt a politician so he is trying to show that he isn't beholden to anyone. Is he taking it too far? Maybe, but it is so awesome to see all these weasely pinheads in DC squirming. Id rather listen to Trump than have to listen to Bobby Jindal.
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Old 07-20-15, 11:30 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
Trump isnt a politician so he is trying to show that he isn't beholden to anyone. Is he taking it too far? Maybe, but it is so awesome to see all these weasely pinheads in DC squirming. Id rather listen to Trump than have to listen to Bobby Jindal.
Agreed...I listen to a pretty establishment talk-radio show...and it's hilarious how he keeps trying to talk Trump down...and the Trump supporters just keep calling in. Love it, lol...can't wait for the Fox debate.
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Old 07-21-15, 12:19 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

President-elect Clinton appreciates your support.
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Old 07-21-15, 06:16 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

John Kasich to Enter GOP Fray

Ohio Gov. John Kasich on Tuesday will become the 16th—and perhaps final—major Republican candidate to enter the 2016 presidential race, rounding out the crowded field with his own brand of compassionate conservatism and blunt talk.

The two-term Republican governor’s bid will test whether a candidate who has bucked the right flank of his party on issues ranging from Medicaid expansion to immigration can gain traction in a primary.

Mr. Kasich, 63 years old, is counting on his mix of executive and Capitol Hill experience to catapult him to contender status. He’ll also tout his work on national security and budget issues during his tenure as a congressman from 1983 until 2001, as well as the economic turnaround in Ohio.

(more at link)
Now that we're ending on a round number, can we decide this deathmatch bracket-style?
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Old 07-21-15, 09:36 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Ohio residents - what are your thoughts on Kasich?
(he seems more reasonable than most of the other GOP candidates)
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Old 07-21-15, 09:43 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Ohio residents - what are your thoughts on Kasich?
(he seems more reasonable than most of the other GOP candidates)
I like him well enough, he seems more interested in economic issues than social issues, which means he's more in line with my views. He makes occasional overtures to the conservative Christian members of the party, but not as much as guys like Walker or Bush.

My main complain with him as governor was that he rejected federal funding to build passenger rail connecting Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. While consistent with his ideology, that would have been incredibly convenient for someone like me, who lives in Columbus and likes to take weekend mini-vacations in Cincy and Cleveland.
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Old 07-21-15, 09:48 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
I like him well enough, he seems more interested in economic issues than social issues, which means he's more in line with my views. He makes occasional overtures to the conservative Christian members of the party, but not as much as guys like Walker or Bush.

My main complain with him as governor was that he rejected federal funding to build passenger rail connecting Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. While consistent with his ideology, that would have been incredibly convenient for someone like me, who lives in Columbus and likes to take weekend mini-vacations in Cincy and Cleveland.
Rejecting funds for such a money pit is one of the things I like the most about Walker.

Now your bigger cities are bigger than ours and there are more of them. I'm not sure if they might possibly work for Ohio (although I very much doubt it). I know it wouldn't work for Milwaukee and Madison.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:00 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
My main complain with him as governor was that he rejected federal funding to build passenger rail connecting Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. While consistent with his ideology, that would have been incredibly convenient for someone like me, who lives in Columbus and likes to take weekend mini-vacations in Cincy and Cleveland.


https://us.megabus.com/routemap.aspx

Your destinations await.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:00 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
My main complain with him as governor was that he rejected federal funding to build passenger rail connecting Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. While consistent with his ideology, that would have been incredibly convenient for someone like me, who lives in Columbus and likes to take weekend mini-vacations in Cincy and Cleveland.
If Cleveland is your idea of a vacation spot, I can't even begin to imagine what kind of hellhole Columbus must be.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:03 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wishbone View Post


https://us.megabus.com/routemap.aspx

Your destinations await.
Good point!

But buses lack the romance and mystique of what could be the Orient Express of the Midwest.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:29 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If Cleveland is your idea of a vacation spot, I can't even begin to imagine what kind of hellhole Columbus must be.
Columbus is a great place to live and work. However, it doesn't have one of the five best symphonies in North America, or a world-class art museum, both of which Cleveland has.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:32 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Or the Browns
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Old 07-21-15, 10:38 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Columbus is a great place to live and work. However, it doesn't have one of the five best symphonies in North America, or a world-class art museum, both of which Cleveland has.
Yeah, but it's still in Ohio. Though if the nearest states to you are Pennsylvania and Michigan, staying in Ohio may be the least bad choice.
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Old 07-21-15, 10:45 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wishbone View Post


https://us.megabus.com/routemap.aspx

Your destinations await.
He didn't say he has no way to get there now; he said it would be convenient to have a train.

I have no idea a) what a train line between the major Ohio cities (or between Madison and Milwaukee, for that matter) would cost to build and maintain, or b) how many passengers would make use of it.

I do, however, know that if your response is simply "You can just take a bus!" without even asking the questions I outlined above, you're not really contributing anything valuable to the conversation. Trains have a number of advantages over highway travel, both for the passengers and for other highway travellers, and it's silly to dismiss those without even considering them.
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Old 07-21-15, 11:12 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Columbus is a great place to live and work. However, it doesn't have one of the five best symphonies in North America, or a world-class art museum, both of which Cleveland has.
Nor the same food scene, one of the better in the nation, (though granted not for vegetarians), or the same quality of outdoor recreation, specifically the absolute best fishing among the Great Lakes and world class river trout fishing.

Having said all that, I still prefer C-Bus.


As for Kasich, I still don't think he can come close to the nomination, but believe he would be the best, and strongest, candidate.
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Old 07-21-15, 11:24 AM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
That didn't happen on it's own either. This hasn't been a compromising administration at all. Obama sends in Reid (and before Pelosi) to "compromise" on a bill where he says he will not sign any changes to key portions of it. Well when you start compromising by telling the other side there will be no compromising.. you get that as a result.
That's a normal part of negotiation. You have some things on which you're willing to compromise, and other things on which you're not willing to compromise. If Obama calls some portions of a bill "key", that means there are other portions of the bill that aren't "key" and he's willing to compromise on those.

If the Republicans' only position is that Obama must change his "key" provisions, they are the ones who aren't allowing any room for negotiation.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 07-21-15 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 07-21-15, 12:51 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
That's a normal part of negotiation. You have some things on which you're willing to compromise, and other things on which you're not willing to compromise. If Obama calls some portions of a bill "key", that means there are other portions of the bill that aren't "key" and he's willing to compromise on those.

If the Republicans' only position is that Obama must change his "key" provisions, they are the ones who aren't allowing any room for negotiation.
So I read this as the Democrats should be able to put up a bill and Republicans should be very happy to compromise only on the parts of the bill that aren't key? What kinda crazy negotiating is that? Would you go into a "negotiation" under those terms? I do a fair amount of negotiating with my job and if that was the environment I knew I was going into I wouldn't bother showing up (except if there are free bagels).
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Old 07-21-15, 01:13 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
So I read this as the Democrats should be able to put up a bill and Republicans should be very happy to compromise only on the parts of the bill that aren't key? What kinda crazy negotiating is that? Would you go into a "negotiation" under those terms? I do a fair amount of negotiating with my job and if that was the environment I knew I was going into I wouldn't bother showing up (except if there are free bagels).
Suppose we were starting a government from scratch, and you wanted to pass a law making murder illegal, but I wanted to amend the bill to say, "But it's not murder for employers to kill employees who mess up, or parents to kill disobedient children, or teachers to kill students who don't turn their homework in," would you be willing to compromise, or would you say, "Fuck you. Those changes would completely invalidate the point of the law."
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Old 07-21-15, 01:30 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Suppose we were starting a government from scratch, and you wanted to pass a law making murder illegal, but I wanted to amend the bill to say, "But it's not murder for employers to kill employees who mess up, or parents to kill disobedient children, or teachers to kill students who don't turn their homework in," would you be willing to compromise, or would you say, "Fuck you. Those changes would completely invalidate the point of the law."
See it would be stupid for me to approach you with a bill like that at all. Let's put it with a topic that most people wouldn't agree with.. Let's say I want to make abortion illegal. Here's a bill. At the end of the day all the key provisions make abortion illegal. Rape, health of the mother, etc.. it's all in there. All illegal. The poop at the bottom of the cage is what I'm willing to negotiate with you but that's it. Instead of 28 years in jail we can talk about 27 years and stuff like that. Would you consider that a negotiation? I'd be crazy to approach you with that and expect you to negotiate with me and you' be even moreso by wasting your time doing it.
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Old 07-21-15, 02:01 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

If the Repubs don't win Florida -- forget it.
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Old 07-21-15, 02:22 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
So I read this as the Democrats should be able to put up a bill and Republicans should be very happy to compromise only on the parts of the bill that aren't key? What kinda crazy negotiating is that? Would you go into a "negotiation" under those terms? I do a fair amount of negotiating with my job and if that was the environment I knew I was going into I wouldn't bother showing up (except if there are free bagels).
I think you might be teasing me, but I'll play along.

It goes both ways. In genuine negotiations both sides have things which are behind hard limits which they won't yield, things which would be nice to have but which they will trade away in exchange for concessions from the other side, and things which they very much want to have, but can be given away if the other side also concedes things close to (but not within) the heart of their position.

When two sides want to negotiate, there's an opening bid of "I'll give you this small thing if you give that small thing." The trades get bigger, and both sides try to find a middle ground.

If both sides badly want an agreement, they will argue for a long time, and both sides will pare as close to they can to their hard limits. Once an agreement is reached, both negotiating teams have to work hard again to sell the agreement to their respective constituencies.

If one side doesn't want an agreement but wants to pretend it does, it announces to the press, "We'll give them something unspecified if they give us something from behind their hard limits."

Last edited by Nick Danger; 07-21-15 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 07-21-15, 02:31 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
What's even more ridiculous is that for most of us, by the time we get to vote in the primary the nominee will have already been decided.
What are you crying about? Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina SHOULD pick our nominees. They are so indicative of the country at large.
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Old 07-21-15, 02:32 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Fucking Onion nails it, yet again!

Admit It: You People Want To See How Far This Goes, Donít You?

COMMENTARY
July 21, 2015
Vol 51 Issue 29
Opinion ∑ Election 2016


by Donald Trump


The latest polls are out, and just as I predicted, Iím leading the Republican presidential race by a wide margin. You might be wondering how that could be. After all, itís hardly been a month since I entered the field and Iíve already alienated Americaís largest immigrant population, seen dozens of my high-profile business deals implode one after the other, and publicly insulted a national heroís military service, all while not offering a single viable policy idea. But none of that matters at all, and my candidacy continues to surge forward, because none of youónot a single one of youócan look away. Not even for a second.

Admit it: You people want to see just how far this goes, donít you?

My campaignís just barely begun and Iíve already got you begging for more. Sure, you can say you oppose me or that you donít even take me seriously. But let me ask you: How many articles have you read about Ted Cruz lately? How many news segments have you watched on Bobby Jindal? Or Rand Paul? But if those stories have the name ďDonald TrumpĒ in them, well, look who suddenly canít get enough.

The thing is, Iíve got all of you eating out of my hand and I havenít even released a single campaign commercial yet. Donít look me in the eye and tell me you donít want to stick around and see what that looks like, because you and I both know these ads are going to be absolutely incredible. Iíll be standing there projecting my best presidential air, saying ďIím Donald Trump, and I approve this message,Ē and you wonít be able to take your eyes off it.

You keep obsessing over every little thing I do and say, and I promise youíll get your commercials real soon.

And the TV spots are just the beginning. I know you, and I know what you like. Youíll absolutely eat it up when you see the ďTrump í16Ē T-shirts, the lawn signs, the bumper stickers; in fact, youíll probably get a real kick out of pointing them out to your friends. Now, just imagine me shaking hands with senior citizens at a nursing home in Iowa. Wouldnít you love to watch that? Or hear what comes out of my mouth when I speak to blue-collar workers at a struggling auto factory?

You say that doesnít interest you? Oh, right, because youíre dying to see how Scott Walker behaves in those situations, right? Give me a break.

Just take a moment and imagine the primary debates: Jeb Bush; Chris Christie; me. Of course, theyíll put me in the middle because Iím ahead in the pollsófar ahead at the moment. You already know how I answer even the most basic inquiries, so just picture me staring down the barrel of a question about foreign affairs or agriculture policy or something like that. You think you wonít sit there with bated breath while I try to tackle a question about using military force, or about food stamps, or about how my faith influences my decision-making? I guarantee you that my answers will be worth watching. And we both know you wouldnít miss them for the world. Itíd be the biggest, most-watched primary debate in history, courtesy of all of you.

And might I remind you that the longer this goes on, the closer I get to selecting a running mate. That realization kind of delighted you in a way, didnít it? You absolutely want to know who Iíd pick. A defeated GOP challenger who hates my guts? Another lunatic billionaire? Maybe my own son, Donald Trump Jr.? Whatever your wildest expectation is, I promise you I will surpass it. Youíre not going to pass up an opportunity to see that, are you?

I can tell youíre practically salivating right now. And Iím going to keep riding this fascination, this little fixation you have with me as far as youíll take me. You know I will.

So donít try to tell me youíd be just as happy to watch one of these other bozos go toe-to-toe with Hillary Clinton or give a soaring speech at the national convention. And donít delude yourself into thinking itís everyone else who wants to watch me do this and youíre somehow above it. You want to see it. You want more. You hear ďTrumpĒ and your attention snaps to the TV screen right away.

Donít think itís true? Fine. You know what you have to do to make me go away. Just quit paying attention. Stop reading this right now.

Thatís right, I didnít think so. I have the power to make the next 16 months one of the most incredible times in our nationís history, and not a single one of you can say youíre not at least a little bit curious to see how this wild ride shakes out. So just keep clicking every link that mentions my name and hitting play on every clip of my public appearances, and I promise you will not be disappointed.

Now, excuse me, but I have to go appear at a New Hampshire town hall and make a statement that every last one of you will be eagerly reading about and discussing in just a few hoursí time.
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Old 07-21-15, 02:34 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Yeah, but it's still in Ohio. Though if the nearest states to you are Pennsylvania and Michigan, staying in Ohio may be the least bad choice.
Both PA and MI are beautiful states with rolling green hills. Ohio is a flat wasteland.
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Old 07-21-15, 03:08 PM
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Re: The 2016 Presidential Election thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I have no idea a) what a train line between the major Ohio cities (or between Madison and Milwaukee, for that matter) would cost to build and maintain, or b) how many passengers would make use of it.
Walker gave the feds back more than $800 million, which was just supposed to be a start.
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