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The Exploding Government Myth

Old 09-13-12, 12:42 AM
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The Exploding Government Myth

Paul Krugman debunks the exploding government myth. As the population has increased, the proportion of government employees has DECREASED.

In Republican circles, this myth has been preached as gospel ad nauseum. Any other examples of the "alternate reality" that many Republicans live in?

Blue Line - All Government
Red Line - Federal Government

Old 09-13-12, 01:21 AM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

I won't post the infographic showing all red states as welfare states, because it's a distortion of data.
Old 09-13-12, 12:29 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
Paul Krugman debunks the exploding government myth. As the population has increased, the proportion of government employees has DECREASED.
Interesting factors to use as comparison. How about the population of sea lions to government employees?

Let's try population vs government spending for a more realistic view.
Old 09-13-12, 12:49 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Are government contractors included in Mr. Krugman's assessment?

Old 09-13-12, 02:35 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Paul Krugman...this is the same idiot that said...Obama didn't spend enough money
Old 09-13-12, 02:47 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by K&AJones View Post
Paul Krugman...this is the same idiot that said...Obama didn't spend enough money
Krugman (among others) has loudly and repeatedly said the stimulus was too small. Since he has evidence and logical arguments while you have ad homenim and a sneer, I'm going to award this round to Krugman. Feel free to make another post with actual evidence that a bigger stimulus would not have helped.

In other news, Ben Bernanke made a big announcement today about more QE.
Old 09-13-12, 03:12 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Krugman (among others) has loudly and repeatedly said the stimulus was too small. Since he has evidence and logical arguments while you have ad homenim and a sneer, I'm going to award this round to Krugman. Feel free to make another post with actual evidence that a bigger stimulus would not have helped.

In other news, Ben Bernanke made a big announcement today about more QE.
The first two did so much, I expect the same results out of this QE.
Old 09-13-12, 04:03 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

This QE is supposed to be open-ended, at least until the unemployment drops by at least one percent. Don't know if it'll work, but that is some change in strategy.
Old 09-13-12, 04:06 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by K&AJones View Post
Paul Krugman...this is the same idiot
Paul Krugman is a Nobel Laureate and probably one of the top half-dozen scholars in the world when it comes to trade theory.

Put another way, not everyone who doesn't think the way you do is an idiot, but nonetheless I thank you for your repeated, nay, repetitious efforts to raise the level of discourse around here.

Oh, and before you dismiss my comments as "just some liberal's stupid opinion", I should point out that I'm not a liberal (although I hold some liberal views) and I don't particularly like Krugman's op-ed pieces. I do, however, appreciate his scholarly work a great deal.
Old 09-13-12, 04:21 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Awesome.
Old 09-13-12, 04:38 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Paul Krugman is a Nobel Laureate.
And Obama won the Peace Prize.
Old 09-13-12, 05:08 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by clappj View Post
And Obama won the Peace Prize.
The criteria are a teensy-weensy bit different.
Old 09-13-12, 05:40 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
The criteria are a teensy-weensy bit different.
True, but the Nobel committees have shown they are very much ideologues and do not mind using different Nobel prizes to promote their ideology if possible. Krugman fits into their ideology.
Old 09-13-12, 05:51 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Don't forget the Exploding National Debt Myth.



(Courtesy of both parties.)
Old 09-13-12, 06:07 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Krugman is a joke. As has already been correctly pointed out.

His proclamation that government spending can be 50% of GDP in a healthy economy got a lot of chuckles recently from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Yeah... he won a Nobel.
Old 09-13-12, 06:46 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

are there any citations for his numbers?
Old 09-13-12, 07:00 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Krugman is one of only a handful of economists that are worth a damn.
Old 09-13-12, 07:04 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
Krugman is one of only a handful of economists that are worth a damn.
Only if you are a Keynesian.
Old 09-13-12, 07:16 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
His proclamation that government spending can be 50% of GDP in a healthy economy got a lot of chuckles recently from people who actually know what they're talking about.
And who are these people?
Old 09-13-12, 07:33 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Krugman graduated from Yale and got a PhD from MIT. He worked in the Reagan White House, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, London School of Economics, and Berkeley. He's been at the National Bureau of Economic Research (look them up) for 30 years and the president of the Eastern Economic Association.

He taught at, graduated from, and is a member of, some of the most prestigious intellectual and economic organizations in the world. Note that the schools he graduated from, was employed at, and is a member of, have diverse political leanings. Then we have hundreds of his published peer reviewed journal articles...

Trying to diminish Krugman's achievements and say he got them because of support from "ideologues" like the Nobel committee has to be the worst case of the pot calling the kettle black I can think of around here. It's one thing to have an educated opinion of someone's theory, but for people here to say he's an idiot because your political party says so is just ignorant.
Old 09-13-12, 07:41 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Krugman graduated from Yale and got a PhD from MIT. He worked in the Reagan White House, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, London School of Economics, and Berkeley. He's been at the National Bureau of Economic Research (look them up) for 30 years and the president of the Eastern Economic Association.

He taught at, graduated from, and is a member of, some of the most prestigious intellectual and economic organizations in the world. Note that the schools he graduated from, was employed at, and is a member of, have diverse political leanings. Then we have hundreds of his published peer reviewed journal articles...

Trying to diminish Krugman's achievements and say he got them because of support from "ideologues" like the Nobel committee has to be the worst case of the pot calling the kettle black I can think of around here. It's one thing to have an educated opinion of someone's theory, but for people here to say he's an idiot because your political party says so is just ignorant.
Fair counter-point. But... I think his personal political beliefs had more to do with it then his academic credentials. If his report was chosen based on actual data, there are far better choices to have been made.
Old 09-13-12, 07:47 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

We've been through this Nobel Laureate stuff before.

A chemistry Ph.D. who got a Nobel Prize for their work in NMR spectroscopy probably couldn't explain the process for cracking crude oil any better than an entry-level refinery employee. Once they get out of their area of expertise you can't automatically put the Nobel Laureate stamp of approval on any new work they come up with. And I would say that particularly applies to the field of economics.
Old 09-13-12, 08:33 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Krugman graduated from Yale and got a PhD from MIT. He worked in the Reagan White House, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, London School of Economics, and Berkeley. He's been at the National Bureau of Economic Research (look them up) for 30 years and the president of the Eastern Economic Association.

He taught at, graduated from, and is a member of, some of the most prestigious intellectual and economic organizations in the world. Note that the schools he graduated from, was employed at, and is a member of, have diverse political leanings. Then we have hundreds of his published peer reviewed journal articles...

Trying to diminish Krugman's achievements and say he got them because of support from "ideologues" like the Nobel committee has to be the worst case of the pot calling the kettle black I can think of around here. It's one thing to have an educated opinion of someone's theory, but for people here to say he's an idiot because your political party says so is just ignorant.
But the experts on an internet DVD forum are the ones who know what's really going on. So you can just keep your fancy learnin' and your decades of experience, mister!
Old 09-13-12, 08:43 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

Originally Posted by X View Post
We've been through this Nobel Laureate stuff before.

A chemistry Ph.D. who got a Nobel Prize for their work in NMR spectroscopy probably couldn't explain the process for cracking crude oil any better than an entry-level refinery employee. Once they get out of their area of expertise you can't automatically put the Nobel Laureate stamp of approval on any new work they come up with. And I would say that particularly applies to the field of economics.
Based on this, we should eliminate the Nobel Prizes. Because he winners don't meet some invisible stamp of approval.

No one has to like the guy and his theories. But to call him an idiot is idiotic. The man isn't stupid simply because someone doesn't agree with him.
Old 09-13-12, 08:50 PM
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Re: The Exploding Government Myth

The number of people may have gone down, but when I hear about "exploding gov't" personally I don't think about it in terms of people, but in terms of the amount of money it takes to run the gov't. What does that number look like over this same time period? Frankly if that is up and the number of people is down doesn't that give support to the theory that was going around awhile back about civil servants drawing unusually high salaries?

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