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The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

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The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Old 07-25-12, 12:43 PM
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The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

So Chic-Fil-A has had controversy before but they are at it again. The President of the company basically said he is against gay marriage (although some argue the quotes are out of context, blah blah). Now the Mayor of Boston and an Alderman in Chicago are trying to block franchises from opening in their city for what the President said.

Are they infringing on his free speech rights? Are they simply blocking discrimination?



I think Cathy should not have made the comments he did but he has the right to and Chic-Fil-A as a corporation shouldn't be punished for it. If the restaurant discriminated, it'd be a different story but I haven't seen any proof that they treat gay customers or employees different than others.
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Old 07-25-12, 12:48 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Nobody is infringing on his free speech rights. He is just as free today to say all the bigoted, stupid shit he said yesterday. He will just as free tomorrow to do the same.

He is also just as free to experience the business repercussions of his actions.
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Old 07-25-12, 12:49 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Nobody is infringing on his free speech rights. He is just as free today to say all the bigoted, stupid shit he said yesterday. He will just as free tomorrow to do the same.

He is also just as free to experience the business repercussions of his actions.
Folks boycotting is fine, but the government blocking him because of what he said sounds like it isn't free speech at all
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Old 07-25-12, 12:54 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

"Cathy" is a "he"? Is he a crossdresser or transsexual?
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Old 07-25-12, 12:57 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Folks boycotting is fine, but the government blocking him because of what he said sounds like it isn't free speech at all
If a local community doesn't want to do business with an organization, I don't see how that's infringing upon his freedom to say what he wants in a public forum.

If local zoning codes prohibit porn/strip clubs/"adult" establishments from operating within a half-mile of any public schools, is that violating Free Speech rights?
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Old 07-25-12, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Nobody is infringing on his free speech rights. He is just as free today to say all the bigoted, stupid shit he said yesterday. He will just as free tomorrow to do the same.

He is also just as free to experience the business repercussions of his actions.
Perfect answer.

Edit: Not perfect because I misinterpreted what Hokeyboy said. I thought he meant the business owner had to deal with his customers' reactions to his decision.

Last edited by movielib; 07-25-12 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 07-25-12, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

A lawyer would know much better than me, but yes, it does seem as though these city governments are restricting his freedom of speech.
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Old 07-25-12, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
If a local community doesn't want to do business with an organization, I don't see how that's infringing upon his freedom to say what he wants in a public forum.
How is the government doing business with an organization? If the public doesn't, that's fine. They don't have to shop there.


If there are repercussions from the govt for saying something, how is that free speech?
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Old 07-25-12, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Folks boycotting is fine, but the government blocking him because of what he said sounds like it isn't free speech at all
Also perfect.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:00 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by movielib View Post
Perfect answer.
really? You're okay with the govt blocking a business permit because of what one of the owner's of the business said?
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Old 07-25-12, 01:05 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
If there are repercussions from the govt for saying something, how is that free speech?
Because it still doesn't take away his RIGHT to say whatever he wants. Period.

How is this different from erecting Blue Laws? Isn't that the government impinging morality on the public whether they like it or not? Try opening up, say, an erotica museum in Ave Maria, FL and see how far that gets you.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:06 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
really? You're okay with the govt blocking a business permit because of what one of the owner's of the business said?
That seemed strange to me too... it's the government using its power AS the government to punish somebody for their viewpoint.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:09 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Because it still doesn't take away his RIGHT to say whatever he wants. Period.

How is this different from erecting Blue Laws? Isn't that the government impinging morality on the public whether they like it or not? Try opening up, say, an erotica museum in Ave Maria, FL and see how far that gets you.
All of the examples you're bringing up have to do with the content of the business. I don't think any of these governments are objecting to the chicken sandwiches that Chick-Fil-A is selling. If chicken restaurant A is allowed to open because they don't oppose gay marriage, and chicken restaurant B is not allowed to open because they do oppose it, how is that not a restriction on free speech?
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Old 07-25-12, 01:13 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
How is this different from erecting Blue Laws?
Blue Laws affect an entire industry.
This affects a single company.

That's how they're different.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:15 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by WallyOPD View Post
All of the examples you're bringing up have to do with the content of the business. I don't think any of these governments are objecting to the chicken sandwiches that Chick-Fil-A is selling. If chicken restaurant A is allowed to open because they don't oppose gay marriage, and chicken restaurant B is not allowed to open because they do oppose it, how is that not a restriction on free speech?
There is no restriction on free speech. People are still allowed to say their minds freely without censorship of their words, thoughts, or ideas from the government (obvious libel issues notwithstanding).

Local mayors and townships vote to ban music, films, plays, etc. all the time. I don't like it either, so either you work to change local leadership, or move.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:17 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Alderman to Chick-fil-A: No deal
Moreno tries to block restaurant that opposes gay marriage from opening in his Northwest Side ward

July 25, 2012|By Hal Dardick, Chicago Tribune reporter


Ald. Proco "Joe" Moreno, 1st, doesn't want a Chick-fil-A fast-food store to open in his ward because the company's leader opposes gay marriage.

A Chicago alderman wants to kill Chick-fil-A's plans to build a restaurant in his increasingly trendy Northwest Side ward because the fast-food chain's top executive vocally opposes gay marriage.

Ald.Proco "Joe" Moreno announced this week that he will block Chick-fil-A's effort to build its second Chicago store, which would be in the Logan Square neighborhood, following company President Dan Cathy's remarks last week that he was "guilty as charged" for supporting the biblical definition of marriage as between a man and woman.

"If you are discriminating against a segment of the community, I don't want you in the 1st Ward," Moreno told the Tribune on Tuesday.

Moreno stated his position in strong terms, referring to Cathy's "bigoted, homophobic comments" in a proposed opinion page piece that an aide also sent to Tribune reporters. "Because of this man's ignorance, I will now be denying Chick-fil-A's permit to open a restaurant in the 1st Ward."

The alderman has the ideological support of Mayor Rahm Emanuel.

"Chick-fil-A values are not Chicago values," the mayor said in a statement when asked about Moreno's decision. "They disrespect our fellow neighbors and residents. This would be a bad investment, since it would be empty."

Moreno is relying on a rarely violated Chicago tradition known as aldermanic privilege, which dictates that City Council members defer to the opinion of the ward alderman on local issues. Last year Moreno wielded that weapon to block plans for a Wal-Martin his ward, saying he had issues with the property owner and that Wal-Mart was not "a perfect fit for the area."

Chick-fil-A already has obtained zoning for a restaurant in the 2500 block of North Elston Avenue, but it must seek council approval to divide the land so it can purchase an out lot near Home Depot, Moreno said.

In opposing Chick-fil-A, Moreno stakes out a position likely to resonate in his hipster ward and much of the rest of the city, where public officials have long cultivated the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. But Moreno also enters the complex intersection of property and free-speech rights.

The alderman, serving his first full term, dismissed any First Amendment concerns.

"You have the right to say what you want to say, but zoning is not a right," he said, adding that he also had concerns about traffic in the area.

Moreno said he has been working on traffic issues for nine months with Chick-fil-A executives. During that period, Moreno also discussed the issue of gay rights, in light of reports that the Cathy family's WinShape Foundation had supported anti-gay organizations, the alderman said.

Company executives assured him they would take no stance on the issue of gay rights and would not discriminate in any fashion at the restaurant, Moreno said.

On Tuesday, Chick-fil-A public relations executives asked for questions to be emailed, then did not respond to them. Attempts to reach the company's local attorney were not successful.

Cathy was quoted July 16 in the Baptist Press saying he was "guilty as charged" for supporting "the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that."

Since Cathy made the comments, his company has come under fire in some quarters.


Jim Henson Co., creator of Muppets films and TV shows, withdrew from a deal to create characters for the chain's kids meals and donated payments it had received from Chick-fil-A to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination.

Boston Mayor Thomas Menino told the Boston Herald he would block the chain from opening in his city, but former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee wrote on his Facebook page that he was "incensed at the vitriolic assaults on the Chick-fil-A company."

Cathy is the son of the founder of Chick-fil-A, which opened its first store in suburban Atlanta in 1967. The family is known for espousing its Christian values. It closes on Sundays and Christian holidays.

Rick Garcia, a longtime Illinois gay rights activist who is a policy adviser to The Civil Rights Agenda group that was working with Moreno and Chick-fil-A on LGBT issues, lauded Moreno's decision.

"I think it's important that the city sends a message that we want business here ... but what we can't have and don't want are businesses that have discriminatory roles," Garcia said, adding that he's a defender of free speech.

Moreno, meanwhile, said it will take "more than words" to get him to reverse course.

"They'd have to do a complete 180," the alderman said. "They'd have to work with LGBT groups in terms of hiring, and there would have to be a public apology from (Cathy)."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-ward-alderman

Hipster ward...
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Old 07-25-12, 01:20 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Local mayors and townships vote to ban music, films, plays, etc. all the time. I don't like it either, so either you work to change local leadership, or move.
They ban music, films, plays etc but they make those bans applicable to EVERYBODY, not just to the owner of one business who makes politically disagreeable statements

Imagine that Cityburg passes a law that says no R-Rated movies can be shown at movie theaters within city limits. That's completely different than telling the owner of one specific theater that he can't show R-rated movies, while allowing all other theaters to show whatever they want.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:21 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
There is no restriction on free speech. People are still allowed to say their minds freely without censorship of their words, thoughts, or ideas from the government (obvious libel issues notwithstanding).

Local mayors and townships vote to ban music, films, plays, etc. all the time. I don't like it either, so either you work to change local leadership, or move.
Every single one of your examples is about governments banning something because of the content of the product being offered. That is a completely separate debate from what is happening here.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:22 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
There is no restriction on free speech. People are still allowed to say their minds freely without censorship of their words, thoughts, or ideas from the government (obvious libel issues notwithstanding).
Oh bullshit. "You can say what you want, but the government is going to deny you privileges granted to others if you do." That's clearly a restriction on speech.

Local mayors and townships vote to ban music, films, plays, etc. all the time. I don't like it either, so either you work to change local leadership, or move.
Also clearly restrictions on speech if they happen... I don't think they actually do this like you claim, and if they do they're only getting away with it because nobody challenged them in court. Government simply cannot punish people for saying things the government doesn't like.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Because it still doesn't take away his RIGHT to say whatever he wants. Period.
Reperrcussions silence speech. Otherwise you could say that throwing someone in jail for what theysaid isn't stopping speech either
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Old 07-25-12, 01:27 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Hokeyboy -

Imagine a town that has a red light district. All the porno theatres and adult video and sex shops are located on one street. The mayor of that town walks down the street and sees that half of the sex shops have political signs supporting the other political party. Do you really think that it's perfectly fine for the mayor to close down those businesses (just the ones with signs for the other party) because "blue laws" exist?
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Old 07-25-12, 01:31 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

Can you believe how much our country discriminates against Christians now?

I mean c'mon, Muslims can open a mosque on ground zero, but Chick-fil-a can't open a restaurant.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:36 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

I have zero sympathy for Chick-Fil-A and I will never eat another delicious chicken sandwich for as long as the company contributes money to homophobic organizations.

But I want my boycott to be MY boycott. I don't need the government to take away my choice to vote with my wallet.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:39 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread

OK, you win. This Chik-Fil-A paragon has been silenced for his views. By the government.
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Old 07-25-12, 01:41 PM
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Re: The Chicken Eaters are revolting thread



Target
Home Depot
Staples
Jo Ann Fabric and Craft
Riverfront Plaza
TigerDirect Retail Store/CompUSA
Dollar Tree
The Room Place
The Vitamin Shoppe
Strack & Van Till
GameStop
Pep Boys
Uniforms to You
Johnstone Supply
Famsa
National Wrecking Company
Banfield Pet Hospital
Windy City Fieldhouse

I'm not sure how adding a Chick-Fil-A would cause any greater traffic concerns than the big stores already located there like Target, Home Depot, Staples, etc.
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