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Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Old 07-01-13, 04:48 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
I thought he passed a poygraph test?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ort/55847436/1
It doesn't matter.

From the article:

Lie detector tests are not admissible in Florida courts...
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Old 07-01-13, 04:53 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
I thought he passed a poygraph test?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ort/55847436/1
Doesn't matter, most likely he lied about passing the polygraph test. He has every reason to lie, therefore he did.
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Old 07-01-13, 04:54 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
I don't agree that we would know what happened if Martin were alive. We would have his version of events, but he may have reason to lie as well.
Doesn't matter. Zimmerman would lie more.
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Old 07-01-13, 04:57 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Doesn't matter. GZ will walk during this trial.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:05 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
I thought he passed a poygraph test?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ort/55847436/1
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
It doesn't matter.

From the article: Lie detector tests are not admissible in Florida courts...
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
So I....like you and other gz lovers can SPECULATE AS MUCH AS I WANT. Because guess what? IM NOT PART OF THE TRIAL.
So, you can speculate as much as you want and not have to constrain yourself with legal aspects of "burden of proof" because you're not part of the trial, but a polygraph test result can be easily dismissed as if it doesn't exist on the grounds that it's not part of the trial?
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Old 07-01-13, 05:12 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Polygraph tests are a joke, there's a reason that they're not admissible in court.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:12 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
So, you can speculate as much as you want and not have to constrain yourself with legal aspects of "burden of proof" because you're not part of the trial, but a polygraph test result can be easily dismissed as if it doesn't exist on the grounds that it's not part of the trial?
pssst... doesn't matter
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Old 07-01-13, 05:26 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
I thought he passed a poygraph test?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ort/55847436/1

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
So, you can speculate as much as you want and not have to constrain yourself with legal aspects of "burden of proof" because you're not part of the trial, but a polygraph test result can be easily dismissed as if it doesn't exist on the grounds that it's not part of the trial?
Uhm...Yes. Polygraphs are not admissible for a reason. Otherwise they'd be standard in ALL courts. See what I did there as I swim in my "Sea of Emotion". Sigh--- I'm keeping it ALL LEGAL.

But seriously, let me ask you...since you love to keep coming up with scenarios...do you think OJ Simpson is guilty of killing Ron and Nicole even though he was found NOT GUILTY? Because I'll tell you...I still believe OJ killed them even if the Jury said he didn't. At the very least was somewhere near them when it happened.

You have waaaaay too much faith in the American Legal System.

Jury still out on polygraph's reliability
Questions remain — even about tests that are properly administered


A 1998 U.S. Supreme Court decision noted that "there is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable." Some states maintain outright bans while others allow them with certain conditions. New Mexico is the only state to broadly admit polygraph evidence, provided that the examiner was qualified and used reliable methods, and that the entire polygraph exam was recorded.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 07-01-13 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:29 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
pssst... doesn't matter
Agreed. Thank you.

Because Trayvon is Dead.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:32 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

States like California, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, and Florida allow the tests if everyone agrees to them, but may put different emphasis on the test's accuracy.
  • California, for instance, presents the results to the jury, and allows them to draw whatever inferences from it they wish.
  • Georgia, on the other hand, allows defendants who suffer damage because of a false result on a polygraph test (which are somewhat frequent) to sue the polygraph operator for damages and attorneys fees.
  • Florida is the one state that does require some people to submit to polygraph tests (previously convicted sex offenders), but even then those test results cannot be used against them in court, and are for use only within the course of their therapy.
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...-in-court.html
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Old 07-01-13, 05:36 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Agreed. Thank you.

Because Trayvon is Dead.
Yep. And its a shame, but it is possibly his own fault. Not probably, not most likely, but possibly.

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Uhm...Yes. Polygraphs are not admissible for a reason. Otherwise they'd be standard in ALL courts.
From what I hear, it doesn't matter.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:37 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

If the police can't compel someone to take a polygraph test, AND it can't be used in court unless agreed to in advance, AND it is "most likely" that everything out of George Zimmerman's mouth was a bullshit lie of epic proportions, I'm wondering why he took one in the first place. Seems odd.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:39 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Sure, even in the 2013 article I posted some states still use them.

But there is still a debate over them. If there wasn't one...they'd be standard.

And most importantly...FLORIDA DOES NOT ALLOW THEM IN COURT. Florida does not trust them.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:41 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Yep. And its a shame, but it is possibly his own fault. Not probably, not most likely, but possibly.
Possibly. But we'll never know for sure...



From what I hear, it doesn't matter.
Agreed. Again. Thanks.
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Old 07-01-13, 05:57 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
If the police can't compel someone to take a polygraph test, AND it can't be used in court unless agreed to in advance, AND it is "most likely" that everything out of George Zimmerman's mouth was a bullshit lie of epic proportions, I'm wondering why he took one in the first place. Seems odd.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've been watching the trial every day. It's interesting that the lead investigator said he believed GZ was either telling the truth or was a pathological liar. When the defense attorney noted that they could rule out GZ being a pathological liar because witness testimony that GZ hadn't heard corroborated his story, the detective agreed.
I know many posters here hate to admit it, and millions of others in Florida won't as well, but it is very possible that Martin was the aggressor and was not the innocent little child eating Skittles the media pushed on us.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:08 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Doesn't matter. Zimmerman would lie more.
What has GZ lied about so far, I see nothing in the trail pointing to that.

As matter of fact...

At one point during his interview with Zimmerman, Serino bluffed that he may have video of the incident shot on Martin’s cellphone.

"I believe [Zimmerman’s] words were, 'Thank God, I was hoping somebody would videotape it,'" said Serino. "Either he was telling the truth or he was a complete pathological liar. One of the two."

Serino says nothing indicated to him that Zimmerman was a liar.

"You think he was telling the truth?" asked O'Mara.

"Yes," said Serino.


AND...
-He took a Polygraph test (when he did not have to) passed, it is NOT an easy thing to do. You have to truly believe what you said or be trained in how to pass on. This is one of the reason the police was not going to charge him with anything. This is NOT the movies, it is very difficult to fool a Poly.

And..
-The physical evidence points to GZ being hit before TM was shot

And...
-The witnesses for the State are helping the defense out because it seems like the truth just is coming out little by little.

And...
-When lied to about the video recording of the fight, he was glad to hear someone had recorded it. Most people do not give the response if they are guilty. Police have many different tactics to trip up the guilty, but GZ passed all the majors ones (Poly, physical evidence, lie about the Video, other witnesses...)

And...
-The State said at the beginning that this was not about Race, because GZ is not white, has black friends and is from a mix race himself.
-The State did say it was about profiling, not exactly sure what that means, but I am listening and learning.

And...
-The only racist comment so far has been from TM, if the witness was correct in everything she said.

There is a long ways to go...so we will see.

Last edited by Iron_Giant; 07-01-13 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:15 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Max Bottomtime View Post
I know many posters here hate to admit it, and millions of others in Florida won't as well, but it is very possible that Martin was the aggressor and was not the innocent little child eating Skittles the media pushed on us.
It is possible.

Not that it matters...THIS TRIAL IS ABOUT WAS GZ IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE AT THE MOMENT HE SHOT TRAYVON...but why was he aggressive?

GZ Supporters claim he(Trayvon) was just a common weed smoking troubled thug who was up to no good and when LEGALLY FOLLOWED and LEGALLY questioned by GZ, he tried to kill GZ. This action caused his death via GZ's LEGAL firearm.

Those who don't support GZ say that it's possible, probable, most likely, Trayvon was in fear of his life and was Standing His Ground against a man with a gun who was following him around. Also a case of self defense.


...alas, we will never know the whole truth and GZ will be found not guilty.


Perhaps GZ will be found negligent in a civil case like OJ.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:19 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post


Perhaps GZ will be found negligent in a civil case like OJ.
And like OJ he'll never pay a dime
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Old 07-01-13, 06:31 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
But seriously, let me ask you...since you love to keep coming up with scenarios...do you think OJ Simpson is guilty of killing Ron and Nicole even though he was found NOT GUILTY? Because I'll tell you...I still believe OJ killed them even if the Jury said he didn't. At the very least was somewhere near them when it happened.
Most likely.

But the OJ case had actual evidence. This case just seems remarkable in its lack of evidence.

I don't think there's any real evidence that suggests that George Zimmerman was definitely acting in self defense.
I don't think there's any real evidence that suggests that George Zimmerman was definitely NOT acting in self defense.

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
You have waaaaay too much faith in the American Legal System.
really? that's what you're getting out of this?

I don't have a lot of faith in the American Legal System. Far too often, people go to jail for crimes they didn't commit. It is precisely this LACK OF FAITH in the legal system that makes me not want to see a man go to prison if the only evidence against him is "he has a reason to lie, therefore everything that he says is a lie."

I'd rather see GZ get away with it then ever have to ask a defendant to conclusively prove they're innocent.

Putting GZ in prison without proving that his story is a lie isn't justice, it's vengeance.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:37 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
It is possible.

Not that it matters...THIS TRIAL IS ABOUT WAS GZ IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE AT THE MOMENT HE SHOT TRAYVON...but why was he aggressive?

GZ Supporters claim he(Trayvon) was just a common weed smoking troubled thug who was up to no good and when LEGALLY FOLLOWED and LEGALLY questioned by GZ, he tried to kill GZ. This action caused his death via GZ's LEGAL firearm.

Those who don't support GZ say that it's possible, probable, most likely, Trayvon was in fear of his life and was Standing His Ground against a man with a gun who was following him around. Also a case of self defense.


...alas, we will never know the whole truth and GZ will be found not guilty.


Perhaps GZ will be found negligent in a civil case like OJ.
I do not support GZ or TM, I wish TM was still alive.

I support people having the right to defend themselves, whether their initials are GZ or TM.

I am holding complete judgement on this case, but it is getting harder the more info that comes out in the trial (I spelled correctly that time).
-With Serino witiness today and just finding out GZ passed the Poly, I can understand why they did not want to charge GZ with anything at first. Now maybe more info came out later that made them want to charge him, we will see in the next week or so.

Every person in this country deserves the right to defend themselves, on the street (TM and GZ) and in the courtroom.

Last edited by Iron_Giant; 07-01-13 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:43 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Most likely.

But the OJ case had actual evidence. This case just seems remarkable in its lack of evidence.

I don't think there's any real evidence that suggests that George Zimmerman was definitely acting in self defense.
I don't think there's any real evidence that suggests that George Zimmerman was definitely NOT acting in self defense.


really? that's what you're getting out of this?

I don't have a lot of faith in the American Legal System. Far too often, people go to jail for crimes they didn't commit. It is precisely this LACK OF FAITH in the legal system that makes me not want to see a man go to prison if the only evidence against him is "he has a reason to lie, therefore everything that he says is a lie."

I'd rather see GZ get away with it then ever have to ask a defendant to conclusively prove they're innocent.

Putting GZ in prison without proving that his story is a lie isn't justice, it's vengeance.
RoyalTea, perfectly put again.

That was almost a great "Closing Argument".

It is a very emotional issue, but even if a video of the fight appeared that backed GZ claims, others would say he should go to jail because he got out of his car.
-We have to go with facts, not vengeance, just like you stated.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:52 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Iron_Giant View Post
I do not support GZ or TM, I wish TM was still alive.
Seems a little crazy that if you don't explicitly state this, you're branded a "GZ lover."
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Old 07-01-13, 07:03 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
And like OJ he'll never pay a dime
One media outlet made this a race issue and they should be the ones to cough up money.
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Old 07-01-13, 07:11 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Max Bottomtime View Post
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've been watching the trial every day. It's interesting that the lead investigator said he believed GZ was either telling the truth or was a pathological liar. When the defense attorney noted that they could rule out GZ being a pathological liar because witness testimony that GZ hadn't heard corroborated his story, the detective agreed.
I know many posters here hate to admit it, and millions of others in Florida won't as well, but it is very possible that Martin was the aggressor and was not the innocent little child eating Skittles the media pushed on us.
I've been watching the trial too (not religiously, but I see probably about 30 minutes every day), and after watching both the interrogation footage and crime scene walkthrough today, I'm convinced GZ did nothing wrong except make a horrible mistake/lapse of judgment. The only reason this case went to trial is because of the media attention/public pressure. No way a sane jury is going to convict this kid...even the prosecution's witnesses are making him look innocent.
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Old 07-01-13, 07:17 PM
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re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
I've been watching the trial too (not religiously, but I see probably about 30 minutes every day), and after watching both the interrogation footage and crime scene walkthrough today, I'm convinced GZ did nothing wrong except make a horrible mistake/lapse of judgment. The only reason this case went to trial is because of the media attention/public pressure. No way a sane jury is going to convict this kid...even the prosecution's witnesses are making him look innocent.
I still don't understand charging him with 2nd degree murder. A manslaughter conviction may not have even been possible, but 2nd degree is like taking a dive.

Just another reason to have a lack of faith in the legal system.
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