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Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Old 07-22-13, 02:16 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Let's move on to other topics - is it a boy or a girl?
Baby should have never left the womb!
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Old 07-22-13, 02:17 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/bill...ID=3&SpecSess=

Interesting. Looks like Barack Obama co-sponsored a bill that may have strengthened stand-your-ground/self-defense in Illinois.

Maybe I'm reading the synopsis wrong but it sounds to me like if Florida had this law, Zimmerman could have used an illegal weapon to defend himself against Trayvon Martin and the state couldn't bust him for having/using an illegal gun, nor could he be sued in a civil trial.
This was a response to a situation where a guy in suburban Chicago used an unlicensed gun in response to a home invasion and got in trouble over it. I'm having trouble remembering the details (it's been 10 years) and Google is not really helping, but this bill was basically saying "If you've got an unlicensed gun, and you use it to defend yourself in a way that's legal, you're not going to get in trouble for it."
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Old 07-22-13, 03:09 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

"If I had a son, and he was in a car that overturned, it would be an Aston Martin."
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Old 07-22-13, 03:44 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

I wonder if Obama will go into stand up comedy after his term is up?
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Old 07-22-13, 03:57 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
I wonder if Obama will go into stand up comedy after his term is up?
His approval ratings would go up. At least if he could read the jokes off a teleprompter.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:00 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Franchot View Post
George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding for Truck Crash Rescue

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=19735432



Another ploy of Zimmerman to make him look like a concerned citizen. You're not fooling anyone, George. We all know better. He is nothing but a little pussy coward racist who brutally shot at point blank range without provocation a little African-American boy who was minding his own business. Where does the media come up with this stuff that Zimmerman would do anything to help anybody? It was probably a staged event. And what race were the people he helped to rescue? Definitely not African-American, I'll bet, which proves once again what a racist he is.
He should have stayed in his car like the 911 operator told him and let them burn.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:03 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
This was a response to a situation where a guy in suburban Chicago used an unlicensed gun in response to a home invasion and got in trouble over it. I'm having trouble remembering the details (it's been 10 years) and Google is not really helping, but this bill was basically saying "If you've got an unlicensed gun, and you use it to defend yourself in a way that's legal, you're not going to get in trouble for it."
Would that include if someone punched you so you hit your head on the ground, then got on top of you and started throwing MMA punches on you?
-Would that be defending yourself?
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Old 07-22-13, 04:08 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Iron_Giant View Post
Would that include if someone punched you so you hit your head on the ground, then got on top of you and started throwing MMA punches on you?
-Would that be defending yourself?
"MMA punches." I love that phrase. An MMA punch is clearly so much worse than a regular punch! But even more than I love the phrase, I love the totemsitic way it has replaced "punch" in the vocabulary of how certain people talk about this matter.

To answer your question, yes, that would be defending yourself. But the real question I think you mean to ask is whether it would be legal self defense. And the answer to that depends on the facts and circumstances of why you were being punched. Excuse me -- MMA punched.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post

True Dat.

But I'm sure if we dig up their FB pages...we could find some reasons to have GZ kill those folks. Since he has been crowned "The Phantom Stranger of Florida" who's job is to punish past sins with a bullet to the heart.
I bet Trayvon would have pull them out of the car and started beating them for pulling their car off the road in a "creepy" manner.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:10 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Iron_Giant View Post
Would that include if someone punched you so you hit your head on the ground, then got on top of you and started throwing MMA punches on you?
-Would that be defending yourself?
Since Zimmerman was acquitted, I don't see why this would matter.

Thanks to Obama, someone who brings an unlicensed gun into the situation can't even be sued in a civil trial. So, if Obama had his way, and if Zimmerman didn't legally own that gun, the fact that he was acquitted could mean that the Martins couldn't even sue for wrongful death.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:14 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
"MMA punches." I love that phrase. An MMA punch is clearly so much worse than a regular punch! But even more than I love the phrase, I love the totemsitic way it has replaced "punch" in the vocabulary of how certain people talk about this matter.

To answer your question, yes, that would be defending yourself. But the real question I think you mean to ask is whether it would be legal self defense. And the answer to that depends on the facts and circumstances of why you were being punched. Excuse me -- MMA punched.
I think the term "MMA punch" has to do with being on top of a person (after having passed their guard) and raining punches freely down on the face of your opponent as so many MMA matches tend to end.

IMO, regardless of the reason for being in that position once there you are entitled to defend yourself. There is a reason fights are stopped in MMA matches when this occurs. If I am ever in that position and I can get to my gun I will shoot to kill. This is why regardless of race, motivation, actions, history etc. I will always side with GZ.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:26 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
An MMA punch is clearly so much worse than a regular punch!
I agree.

If I had to choose among two ways to get punched, I'd much rather be standing up, facing my attacker than to be on my back with my attacker on top of me.

Now, if you were being sarcastic, are you trying to say that you'd be indifferent to those two options?
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Old 07-22-13, 04:43 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
I think the term "MMA punch" has to do with being on top of a person (after having passed their guard) and raining punches freely down on the face of your opponent as so many MMA matches tend to end.

IMO, regardless of the reason for being in that position once there you are entitled to defend yourself. There is a reason fights are stopped in MMA matches when this occurs. If I am ever in that position and I can get to my gun I will shoot to kill. This is why regardless of race, motivation, actions, history etc. I will always side with GZ.
You and all conservatives like me.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:47 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Since Zimmerman was acquitted, I don't see why this would matter.

Thanks to Obama, someone who brings an unlicensed gun into the situation can't even be sued in a civil trial. So, if Obama had his way, and if Zimmerman didn't legally own that gun, the fact that he was acquitted could mean that the Martins couldn't even sue for wrongful death.
If there was a jury finding that Zimmerman was legally defending himself from aggressor Martin, then you are correct as I understand the law.

Note, though, that the mere fact that the jury acquitied Zimmerman does not mean, as a matter of law, that they found he was justified in killing Martin. They may have had reasonable doubt as to whether he actually fired the shot, for example. We all know that's not what actually happened, but "we all know" doesn't have the force of law -- what the jury was asked to specifically reach a verdict on is what has the force of law.
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Old 07-22-13, 04:50 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I agree.

If I had to choose among two ways to get punched, I'd much rather be standing up, facing my attacker than to be on my back with my attacker on top of me.

Now, if you were being sarcastic, are you trying to say that you'd be indifferent to those two options?
No, I'm not trying to say I'm indifferent. I'm trying to say the concerted attempt to make it look like poor George Zimmerman was at the mercy of a would-be Brock Lesnar is silly.

By the way, was Mr. Zimmerman treated for concussion after having his head slammed into the concrete by repeated MMA style punches?
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Old 07-22-13, 05:10 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
No, I'm not trying to say I'm indifferent. I'm trying to say the concerted attempt to make it look like poor George Zimmerman was at the mercy of a would-be Brock Lesnar is silly.
So, if someone said that one person punched another person "boxing style," you wouldn't view that as an attempt to describe the fight as two people standing upright, face to face, but as an attempt to describe it as one weakling getting punched by a would-be Mike Tyson?
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Old 07-22-13, 05:17 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If there was a jury finding that Zimmerman was legally defending himself from aggressor Martin, then you are correct as I understand the law.

Note, though, that the mere fact that the jury acquitied Zimmerman does not mean, as a matter of law, that they found he was justified in killing Martin. They may have had reasonable doubt as to whether he actually fired the shot, for example. We all know that's not what actually happened, but "we all know" doesn't have the force of law -- what the jury was asked to specifically reach a verdict on is what has the force of law.
I'm fairly sure that Zimmerman acknowledged to police that he shot Martin, that his account (as given to police at that time) was introduced into evidence by the police, and that no one, neither prosecution nor defense, has made the slightest attempt to suggest that Zimmerman did not pull the trigger. Are you seriously trying to suggest that the jury, in their private deliberations, may have taken it upon themselves to concoct some bizarre scenario in which Zimmerman did not pull the trigger, andthat is why they found him "Not Guilty"?!

Seriously, I believe the jury accepted that Zimmerman killed Martin, and that the verdict of "Not Guilty" is an indication that they foudn it justifiable. Since no one else was in danger at that time, it could only be considered self-defense.
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Old 07-22-13, 05:17 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Graftenberg View Post
I bet Trayvon would have pull them out of the car and started beating them for pulling their car off the road in a "creepy" manner.

Hey, if they were following him in a creepy way and didn't identify themselves I might support that action.
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Old 07-22-13, 05:23 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If there was a jury finding that Zimmerman was legally defending himself from aggressor Martin, then you are correct as I understand the law.

Note, though, that the mere fact that the jury acquitied Zimmerman does not mean, as a matter of law, that they found he was justified in killing Martin. They may have had reasonable doubt as to whether he actually fired the shot, for example. We all know that's not what actually happened, but "we all know" doesn't have the force of law -- what the jury was asked to specifically reach a verdict on is what has the force of law.
I don't know man. At least one juror so far seems like she was pretty sure GZ was a hero.
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Old 07-22-13, 05:27 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

7 Mind Blowing Moments From Zimmerman Juror B37′s First Interview

Even This Juror believes he was a dummy who should have stayed in his car.

She also believes, "The 911 Operator Egged him on". Really? But I though GZ fans claim the 911 Only said, "We don't need you to do that"? Now he was egged on? This woman was on the jury? So what court case was she watching?

GZ folks will be happy to know she felt Trayvon caused his own death though. So there's that....

5. Zimmerman was only guilty of using poor judgment and was “egged” on to follow Martin by the 9/11 operator.

COOPER: Do you think he’s guilty of something?

JUROR: I think he’s guilty of not using good judgment. When he was in the car and he called 911, <b>he shouldn’t have gotten out of that car. But the 911 operator also, when he was talking to him, kind of egged him on.</b>

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Old 07-22-13, 05:37 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
7 Mind Blowing Moments From Zimmerman Juror B37′s First Interview

Even This Juror believes he was a dummy who should have stayed in his car.

.
.
.

GZ folks will be happy to know she felt Trayvon caused his own death though. So there's that....
Oh, come on! What did she really say? You say its that he "caused his own death". The article says its that he "was responsible for his own death". What she really said is...
It was just hard, thinking that somebody lost their life, and thereís nothing else that could be done about it. I mean, itís what happened. Itís sad. Itís a tragedy this happened, but it happened. And I think both were responsible for the situation they had gotten themselves into. I think both of them could have walked away. It just didnít happen.
But lets just put words in her mouth to make her sound as bad as possible, right? Don't let reality stand in the way of your version of the story.
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Old 07-22-13, 06:11 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
I'm fairly sure that Zimmerman acknowledged to police that he shot Martin, that his account (as given to police at that time) was introduced into evidence by the police, and that no one, neither prosecution nor defense, has made the slightest attempt to suggest that Zimmerman did not pull the trigger. Are you seriously trying to suggest that the jury, in their private deliberations, may have taken it upon themselves to concoct some bizarre scenario in which Zimmerman did not pull the trigger, andthat is why they found him "Not Guilty"?!
No, I'm trying to suggest that depending on what questions were actually on the jury form and how the jury was polled, the conclusions of the jury may not have the force of law to bar collateral proceedings were self-defense is an absolute bar to litigation.

Like I said -- we all know that what the jury meant was "Zimmerman was properly exercising his legal right to self defense." But if all the jury said was "not guilty," then Zimmerman will need to go into court in a civil suit and prove he was exercising his legal right to self-defense. He can't simply say "Come on, we all know why I was acquited" because "Come on, we all know ..." doesn't have any legal significance.
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Old 07-22-13, 06:26 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Oh, come on! What did she really say? You say its that he "caused his own death". The article says its that he "was responsible for his own death". What she really said is...

But lets just put words in her mouth to make her sound as bad as possible, right? Don't let reality stand in the way of your version of the story.

Please. She meant exactly what I stated... otherwise...WHY SAY WHAT SHE DID?

Responsible =

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/responsible


1. answerable or accountable, as for something within one's power, control, or management (often followed by to or for ): He is responsible to the president for his decisions.

2. involving accountability or responsibility: a responsible position.

3.chargeable with being the author, cause, or occasion of something (usually followed by for ): Termites were responsible for the damage.

4.having a capacity for moral decisions and therefore accountable; capable of rational thought or action: The defendant is not responsible for his actions.

5.able to discharge obligations or pay debts.

Also, you ignored my initial post about what she said about the 911 Op egging GZ on and how he should have stayed in his car after calling 911.
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Old 07-22-13, 06:31 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Also, you ignored my initial post about what she said about the 911 Op egging GZ on and how he should have stayed in his car after calling 911.
sounds like she watched too much CNN.
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Old 07-22-13, 06:31 PM
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Re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Please. She meant exactly what I stated... otherwise...WHY SAY WHAT SHE DID?

Responsible =
??? This makes no sense. If she believed TM was the aggressor in the attack, which she clearly did because she believed it was self-defense, then of course TM was at least partially responsible. To get to the verdict the entire jury came to he had to be.
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