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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 05-27-15, 04:39 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
It was discussed on Morning Joe the other morning and in the paper this morning. We discussed it here a few weeks ago. Crime in Baltimore and other major cities has spiked since the Baltimore riots. Arrests are way down as shootings and killings are way up. Joe, Mika and the group were discussing whether this was an intentional slowdown by police from spite (my phrase not theirs), or whether the police were fearful of getting into altercations. They now know that any altercation that goes sideways will be tried in the papers and public opinion.

The paper mentioned that any call responded to has numerous officers show up because the public quickly gathers with cameras so resources are spread very thin. Every call instead of 1 or 2 now has 6 - 8 responding officers. People were accusing officers of driving right by fights in the street. They are no longer being proactive on anything. They are responding to calls and that's it.
Probably a combination of both. Most likely their angry about how when something goes wrong cities will throw them under the bus, and how even if it's a shooting that is justified, people will immediately protest and say it's the officers fault. Combine that with everyone wanting videos of altercations to post on Facebook or Twitter and who can blame them.
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Old 05-27-15, 04:49 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
Probably a combination of both. Most likely their angry about how when something goes wrong cities will throw them under the bus, and how even if it's a shooting that is justified, people will immediately protest and say it's the officers fault. Combine that with everyone wanting videos of altercations to post on Facebook or Twitter and who can blame them.
If I were the cops, I'd start by not shooting so many people but perhaps that's a bold position.
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Old 05-27-15, 05:04 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
If I were the cops, I'd start by not shooting so many people but perhaps that's a bold position.
Thanks for proving my point about an ignorant public not having any clue about what their talking about.
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Old 05-27-15, 05:12 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread




Photo shows 2 Chicago cops posing over black man wearing deer antlers
Posted 1:15 PM, May 27, 2015, by WGN Web Desk, Updated at 02:25pm, May 27, 2015

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Jerome Finnigan, left, and Timothy McDermott, right, with an unidentified man. Photo obtained from court file from the Chicago Sun-Times.

Jerome Finnigan, left, and Timothy McDermott, right, with an unidentified man. Photo from the Office of the Cook County Clerk.

CHICAGO A Cook County judge has refused to seal an appalling photo that shows two Chicago Police Department officers holding rifles while posing over a black man wearing deer antlers.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times, federal prosecutors provided the city of Chicago the Polaroid picture in 2013. The photo is believed to have been taken between 1999 and 2003 at a West Side facility.

http://wgntv.com/2015/05/27/photo-sh...-deer-antlers/
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Old 05-27-15, 05:28 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread



Thanks for proving my point about an ignorant public not having any clue about what they're talking about.
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Old 05-27-15, 05:33 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
Probably a combination of both. Most likely their angry about how when something goes wrong cities will throw them under the bus, and how even if it's a shooting that is justified, people will immediately protest and say it's the officers fault. Combine that with everyone wanting videos of altercations to post on Facebook or Twitter and who can blame them.
Aww poor babies. Sounds similar to Christians always complaining about how they're being persecuted.

Last edited by inri222; 05-27-15 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 05-27-15, 09:25 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

police now using their armored trucks to end a simple car chase. This is precisely the kind of mission creep people dislike. Not to mention that's about the worst possible vehicle to use, they are enormous, have a high center of gravity and aren't meant to be used in PIT maneuvers. How many accidents did they have in iraq/afghanistan with these things flipping over killing and injuring the troops inside.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=40359b076479" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 05-27-15, 09:37 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

^Stupid ignorant public, no idea what there talking about!
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Old 05-27-15, 10:13 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
^Stupid ignorant public, no idea what there talking about!

Really? You of all people should know better!
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Old 05-27-15, 10:21 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
police now using their armored trucks to end a simple car chase. This is precisely the kind of mission creep people dislike. Not to mention that's about the worst possible vehicle to use, they are enormous, have a high center of gravity and aren't meant to be used in PIT maneuvers. How many accidents did they have in iraq/afghanistan with these things flipping over killing and injuring the troops inside.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=40359b076479" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hell yeah...thats what should be used to end a pursuit!

As a law enforcement officer I 100% endorse the use of this to end pursuits.

And I'm not kidding...

Don't want to get hit with a tank...don't run from the fucking cops. Get it?

There is a thin line...if LE hadn't stopped him and he'd killed someone then we'd be on the table for NOT doing something.

Take them out...ASAP...get it?
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Old 05-27-15, 11:00 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I don't have a problem with pit maneuvers. Why on earth would you use that vehicle? It's far more dangerous to the guys inside than a regular car.
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Old 05-27-15, 11:29 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
I don't have a problem with pit maneuvers. Why on earth would you use that vehicle? It's far more dangerous to the guys inside than a regular car.
Because it's badass and fun?
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Old 05-28-15, 05:55 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
If I were the cops, I'd start by not shooting so many people but perhaps that's a bold position.
Then you should be pleased, out of all the people shot this past weekend including a 4 year old, none were shot by the police. SUCCESS!
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Old 05-28-15, 07:26 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Because it's badass and fun?
true, and it's a shiny new toy. Can't let it sit in its plastic packaging forever.
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Old 05-28-15, 08:09 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Ha! I was watching that live at work for about 90 minutes, was a fun way to pass the time. That guy was just going at a crawl for so long too. Loved seeing the swat team just yank him from the car.
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Old 05-28-15, 08:36 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Thanks for proving my point about an ignorant public not having any clue about what they're talking about.
Stupid photo not withstanding it's pretty obvious that these guys were most likely pals screwing around. Stupid and they should know better but in context it's no different than all the other stupid photos that cause controversies on the internet. And good job correcting grammar in a condescending manner btw.

Aww poor babies. Sounds similar to Christians always complaining about how they're being persecuted.
Awww poor babies. Kind of like how pretty much every group in the world at one point and time has cried about being persecuted. So what's your point exactly?
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Old 05-28-15, 10:31 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
Stupid photo not withstanding it's pretty obvious that these guys were most likely pals screwing around. Stupid and they should know better but in context it's no different than all the other stupid photos that cause controversies on the internet. And good job correcting grammar in a condescending manner btw.
Yup these guys sure are funny. The cop on the left is serving 12 years for leading a crew of rogue cops in robberies, home invasions and ordering a hit on another officer. The other guy has been sued 4 times including a case where a man served 3 years because a gun was planted, he was released and awarded $400,000 by the city.

Damn shame these good cops have been besmirched by a stupid ignorant public.

Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
Awww poor babies. Kind of like how pretty much every group in the world at one point and time has cried about being persecuted. So what's your point exactly?
Sorry that you did not get my point, I'm just a member of the stupid ignorant public and don't know what I'm talking about.
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Old 05-28-15, 12:15 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

This one won't go anywhere because there is no way to verify what really happened. It would be nice if the cops cameras so things could be verified. It would also be nice if they had an actual mental health person with them when going to a call about someone contemplating suicide.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-kill-him.html
Man Threatens Suicide, Police Kill Him
Justin Way was in bed with a knife. His girlfriend called a non-emergency number to try to get him into a hospital. Minutes later, cops shot him dead.

On May 11, Justin Way was drinking and threatening to hurt himself. His father, George Way, said his son was a recovering alcoholic and had been alcohol-free for five weeks.

“He just lost his job, and he had a setback,” he said.

Way’s live-in girlfriend, Kaitlyn Christine Lyons, said she’d caught Justin drinking a bottle of vodka, which she took away from him to pour out. She said he was drunk, lying in their bed with a large knife, saying he would hurt himself with it. She called a non-emergency number in an attempt to get her boyfriend to a local St. Augustine, Florida, hospital for help—and told them she did not feel threatened.

“My brother has been Baker Acted three times because he was threatening to hurt himself so I figured that would happen with Justin,” said Lyons. Florida’s Baker Act allows the involuntary institutionalization of an individual, and it can be initiated by law-enforcement officials.

“The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”

Minutes later, two St. Johns County Sheriff’s deputies, 26-year-old Jonas Carballosa and 32-year-old Kyle Braig, arrived at the home, armed with assault rifles, and told Kaitlyn to wait outside.

“I thought they were going into war,” she remembered thinking when she first saw the large guns. Within moments, Justin was shot dead.

George Way said the initial report he received from Det. Mike Smith detailed an incident wherein his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife. Way said Smith told him Justin had threatened Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn denies this.

Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said that the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because that’s what we do.”

Denise said Smith then told her about “this new trend in law-enforcement now—it’s called suicide by cop.” She said Smith explained “suicide by cop” is when suicidal people provoke the police in an effort to end their own lives.

She said Smith wouldn’t tell her family where or how many times their son was shot.

Justin’s parents do not believe their son was a threat, because they think Justin was shot while still lying in bed.

“If Justin was coming after them with a knife, at 6-foot-4, wouldn’t there be blood splattered all over the room?” George said.

Way’s parents brought Justin’s mattress to the curb after his death. George says he believes there was a bullet dug out of the bed from a hole found in the middle of it. He also said the blood was contained entirely within the mattress, and that it did not hit the walls or the floor.

In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental-health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

“If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.

If the deputies used tasers and one prong missed, Mulligan said, they might be left in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.

“They were in a very tight space within a residence,” he said.

Mulligan added that the difference between an assault rifle and a handgun would not have affected the outcome in Justin Way’s case.

“Whether it’s a rifle or not, in many senses, is a non-issue,” he said. “A bullet comes out of a handgun, a bullet comes out of a rifle.”


This wasn’t the first time that law enforcement in the area had been involved in a fatal shooting. One of the two officers that went into Justin Way’s home, Kyle Braig, was involved in a fatal shooting with a knife-wielding man five months ago. A few days after Way was killed, another suicidal man was injured by St Johns County deputies.

On Facebook, Jonas Carballosa, the second deputy involved in the Justin Way shooting, once posted the following quote: “Most people respect the badge. Everyone respects the gun.”

Way’s parents said they do not ever want to call the police again—for anything.

Kaitlyn Lyons said she hopes the police rethink how guns are used in cases where people are calling about those who are suicidal or seeking help.

“I think they should come in using other things,” she said. “And I think they definitely need to figure out how to handle suicidal people.”

UPDATE 10:15 AM: An earlier version of this story implied that Justin Way called a suicide hotline. It was his girlfriend, Kaitlyn Lyons, who made the call. We regret the error.
It would be nice to see what really happened. I also think the police are wrong if they think that an assault rifle makes no difference over a hand gun. I think it affects the people they are going to "protect" quite a bit. It changes a police officer from being a potential helper (in the mind of those that see them) to a potential threat.
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Old 05-28-15, 01:24 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Dave99
Not to mention that's about the worst possible vehicle to use, they are enormous, have a high center of gravity and aren't meant to be used in PIT maneuvers. How many accidents did they have in iraq/afghanistan with these things flipping over killing and injuring the troops inside.
This armored vehicle looks like a Bearcat, which is civilian made armored vehicle built on a Ford pickup truck chassis. It's not an MRAP, and I don't recall a ton of stories regarding Bearcats flipping over. And it quite frankly didn't look in this case like it was remotely at risk for flipping.

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
I don't have a problem with pit maneuvers. Why on earth would you use that vehicle? It's far more dangerous to the guys inside than a regular car.
Unless you believe the subject might be armed. Unarmored cars are bullet traps. Considering this particular guy had priors for armed robbery with a deadly weapon and other weapons charges, it'd be prudent to assume he's armed until you've verified he's not.
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Old 05-28-15, 03:01 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
This one won't go anywhere because there is no way to verify what really happened. It would be nice if the cops cameras so things could be verified. It would also be nice if they had an actual mental health person with them when going to a call about someone contemplating suicide.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-kill-him.html


It would be nice to see what really happened. I also think the police are wrong if they think that an assault rifle makes no difference over a hand gun. I think it affects the people they are going to "protect" quite a bit. It changes a police officer from being a potential helper (in the mind of those that see them) to a potential threat.
It also has way more penetration so the bullets are more likely to blow through walls and hit unintended targets. It also seems strange that a rifle is thought more necessary than a negotiator for a suicidal person.
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Old 05-28-15, 03:38 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
It also has way more penetration so the bullets are more likely to blow through walls and hit unintended targets.
That's a myth, if you're talking about .223 rounds. Those (.223) rounds travel much faster than handgun rounds, but they also have much less mass and tend to break up far better than handgun rounds. There have been numerous tests showing handgun rounds counter-intuitively penetrated more (e.g. http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html ; e.g. http://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/20...ration-issues/ ). What's more, shooters tend to be more accurate with a rifle, and rifles rounds tend to stop a threat more efficiently than a handgun. That translates into fewer missed shots and fewer shots needed.

And compounding all that, many departments use rifle ammo specifically designed to break apart to further minimize over-penetration.

It's a fine argument to say "having a rifle out around an emotionally disturbed person may aggravate the situation" (although I'd debate just how much more it will aggravate the situation beyond having drawn handguns), but the penetration thing is just a canard. If you're worried about over-penetration as a concern, you should use a (.223) rifle.

I'm not sure if this link will work (here's the source: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...d-golf-village ), but this is the "knife" the guy had:

I'd call that a machete or a sword, personally. I can guarantee I wouldn't take a disturbed person wielding that lightly.
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Old 05-28-15, 04:06 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Yeah, that's true about the 5.56 nato, it gets deflected by shrubbery. I was actually thinking about the 7.62 nato. But cops would be carrying an M4 or some kind of AR platform. I am just prejudiced in favor of a G3 or M14.
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Old 05-29-15, 03:45 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Sorry that you did not get my point, I'm just a member of the stupid ignorant public and don't know what I'm talking about.
We finally found something we agree on.

It's been said numerous times. Law enforcement like all professions have their share of bad ones too. Think about what you do for a living, if there are none of your competitors or colleagues that you think are poor at their job, then they might be thinking that about you.

We should have a thread about doctors behaving badly. Depending on the source there are anywhere from 44,000 - 98,000 deaths, out of the 2.5 million annually that are a result of medical malpractice.

There are between 8000 and 12,000 firearm related deaths.

The most recent year I could find was 2011. There were 1100+ police related shootings. In those 607 people died. In 5% of those total shootings police were sued for improper use of force. There was no final tally on how many were ultimately found to be improper in the article.

Although they comprise 15% of the population, the vast majority of murders (50%) are black victims by black perpetrators.

We've had some jerk-off cops around here. A sergeant high on coke rear ended a car stalled on the expressway and took off. The pregnant driver gave birth prematurely. He was ultimately found guilty and went to the slammer.

A guy in the same department was using his badge to coerce women into sex. "If you don't bang me I'll report this weed to your probation officer". He also went to the slammer along with the chief of the dept. who was convicted of trying to cover it up.

There are more than 1 million LEO's in the country. Like all professions, 99% go about their job like professionals and don't end up on CNN.

Last edited by JimRochester; 08-03-15 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 05-29-15, 04:27 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I just wish more of that 99% would try to get the bad 1% out of their profession.

Same goes for medical professionals.
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Old 05-29-15, 04:43 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I just wish more of that 99% would try to get the bad 1% out of their profession.

Same goes for medical professionals.
I hear people make that same argument about Muslims. Seems like a handy way to justify unjust prejudice against the overwhelmingly innocent majority.
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