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-   -   The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/597561-cops-behaving-badly-thread.html)

Abob Teff 04-25-21 08:46 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by JasonF (Post 13925623)
But there are altercations every day. Philando Catille got pulled over for a traffic violation. That happens to thousands of people every day. Most of them don't get shot. George Floyd passed a counterfeit bill. That happens dozens, if not hundreds of times a day. Most of the people who do that don't get killed. Sandra Bland died because a cop tailgated her, she switched lanes to let him pass, and the cop pulled her over to ticker her for not signaling properly, hauled her out of her vehicle, threw her to the ground, and arrested her for assaulting him. How is that not "the wrong place at the wrong time?"

Every cop who kills a black person has a story to tell about why, in their own head, it was justified. That doesn't mean shit. Every black person in America walks around afraid, on some level, that they will be the next black person in the "wrong place at the wrong time" for some traffic stop gone wrong, or that some cop will mistake their kid's cell phone for a gun and shoot them, or that they'll be asleep in their own bed when the police will bust down the door on an erroneous warrant. All of them in the wrong place at the wrong time when trigger happy police act with deadly force.

You want a specific "answer" to who was randomly killed? Check out wikipedia's Black Lives Matter portal and the list of deaths protested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templa...k_Lives_Matter

Virtually all of those deaths involved men or women or children who were in the wrong place at the wrong time when the police over-reacted.

As I hit my point of being ready to walk away, I think I may see where we are not meeting up. You seem to be approaching my comments to be some sort of "blame the victim" comments. They are not. I am blaming the officer in every case. In every case, there was not "no reason." In every case there was inadequate training, inadequate personnel, fear, bias, perhaps racism, perhaps hatred, inadequate policies, inadequate attitudes ... there are many, many common causes.

Yes, in some cases there was an escalated altercation that change the scenario, but in every case you find those common factors I just listed. Could avoiding the escalated altercation have avoided the shooting in those cases? Possibly, but even adding in that step does not change the other commonalities. It could be mitigating in that it raised the officer's perceived threat response, but it doesn't change that the raised threat response was still WRONG due to those common factors.

There was never "no reason." There are plenty of reasons. There are plenty of reasons that can be fixed and need to be fixed NOW.

JasonF 04-25-21 11:36 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Abob Teff (Post 13925665)

There was never "no reason." There are plenty of reasons. There are plenty of reasons that can be fixed and need to be fixed NOW.

So this entire discussion was because someone said “no reason” instead of “no good reason”? Seems like a pointless thing to quibble over but I guess we’re all on the same page now.

Abob Teff 04-25-21 06:12 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
If you had read the post before acting outraged, you would have known that.

Again, a very significant point. “No reason” means nothing can be done, so we should just sit around and bitch instead of doing something. Something many people here seem to prefer to do.

”No good reason” means something is broken and we can fix it. It acknowledges the breakdowns and failures that led to the incident and recognizes we can improve.

Never mind. I don’t even know why I come in here and try. It seems many people don’t want to hear it and don’t want to try to fix the world. They just want factors outside their control to be responsible so they don’t have to be.

slop101 04-26-21 02:49 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I really hope he tears that PD a new one...


cungar 04-26-21 02:58 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 13926346)
I really hope he tears that PD a new one...

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...36645945405447


Now do the Trump Administration

Nick Danger 04-28-21 10:09 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Loveland, CO police officer dislocates the shoulder of an 80 pound woman with dementia. Then he shows the bodycam footage to other officers and says, "Ready for the pop?" Another officer says, "I love this."


DENVER (AP) — A Colorado police officer accused of dislocating the shoulder of a 73-year-old woman with dementia while arresting her seemed to be aware he had injured her. He told fellow officers “ready for the pop?” as he showed them his body camera footage, according to police station surveillance video with enhanced audio that was made public Monday by the woman’s lawyer.

Officer Austin Hopp made the comment while showing the other officers the part of the arrest that shows Karen Garner being held against the hood of a patrol car in Loveland, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) north of Denver last year, her handcuffed left arm bent up behind her head. The body camera footage, which can be heard but not seen on the surveillance video, was also previously released by Garner’s lawyer.

The videos plus a lawsuit filed against Hopp, other officers and the city and investigations into the arrest came this month amid a national reckoning over the use of force by police against people — including those with mental and physical health conditions.

The surveillance video captured in the Loveland police station shows two other officers, one male and female, watching the footage with Hopp as he makes the “pop” comment. The female officer, who helped during the arrest and says “I hate this.”

The video then shows her pull her hat over her eyes while another male officer says, “I love it.”

Earlier in the surveillance video, before the officers watch the body camera footage, Hopp says Garner is “flexible” and says something else that’s inaudible. He then makes another reference to the popping sound, telling the female officer that “I was pushing, pushing, pushing. I hear — pop. I was like ‘oh no,’” he said. The female officer puts her head in her hands.

At the time, Garner was in a holding cell a few feet away, handcuffed to a bench. The federal lawsuit filed on her behalf earlier this month said she received no medical care for about six hours after she was taken to jail.

Later in the surveillance video, Hopp and the other male officer fist bump at the part of the body camera footage where Hopp dismisses the concerns of a man passing by the arrest scene who stops to object to how Hopp treated what the man thought was a child.

After watching that part of the body cam video a second time, the second officer who is recorded on the surveillance video reacts to the man who stopped at the arrest scene by saying: “What are you doing? Get out of here. This is none of your business.”

Hopp arrested Garner in June 2020 after she allegedly left a store without paying for about $14 worth of items. His body camera footage shows Hopp catching up to her as she walks through a field along a road. She shrugs and turns away from him and he quickly grabs her arm and pushes her 80-pound (36-kilogram) body to the ground. She looks confused and repeatedly says, “I am going home.”

On the police station video, Hopp says he is a little worried that Garner is “like senile and stuff.” Several times, he and the other officers say she fought with police and Hopp says she got her handcuffs halfway off.

Police put Hopp on leave after the lawsuit was filed and announced they would conduct an internal investigation. Soon after that, the district attorney’s office announced the arrest of Garner would be investigated by a team of outside law enforcement agencies. The city of Loveland has also said it will conduct a review.

Loveland police declined to comment on the new video footage from the police station, citing the criminal investigation being conducted at the district attorney’s request.

“Independent comment from the Loveland Police Department would not be appropriate at this time. LPD has faith in the due process that this investigation allows for,” it said in a statement.

Hopp could not be located for comment. The Loveland Fraternal Order of Police, the union representing city police officers, did not return an email asking whether he had a lawyer who could speak for him.

The lawyer representing Garner and her family, Sarah Schielke, said the latest video footage needed to be released to force the department to change.

“If I didn’t release this, the Loveland Police’s toxic culture of arrogance and entitlement, along with their horrific abuse of the vulnerable and powerless, would carry on, business as usual. I won’t be a part of that,” she said.

A sergeant who signed off on the paperwork the officers were filling out while they watched the body camera footage was also added as defendants in Garner’s lawsuit as was the second male officer watching the footage.
https://apnews.com/article/colorado-...1a0a8b93712bf5

Required Political Forum commentary: I think this is a bad thing.

spainlinx0 04-28-21 10:20 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Yeah, definitely no problems with the lack of training, or it seems like mental screening, when cops like this are allowed on the force. Could you imagine being the sick fuck that takes pleasure out of dislocating the shoulder of an old frail woman with dementia? And to get cheered on by another cop? They really are such heroes with such difficult jobs. These people should be praised for behavior like this which is ABSOLUTELY not representative of the majority of the force, as they cheer it on.

GoldenJCJ 04-28-21 10:48 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nick Danger (Post 13927028)
Loveland, CO police officer dislocates the shoulder of an 80 pound woman with dementia. Then he shows the bodycam footage to other officers and says, "Ready for the pop?" Another officer says, "I love this."



https://apnews.com/article/colorado-...1a0a8b93712bf5

Required Political Forum commentary: I think this is a bad thing.

I mentioned this is another thread but this incident happens in my town, probably 5 minutes from my house. This is also EXACTLY what people are referring to when they talk about social workers being involved. Yet those “I’d like to see a social worker do law enforcement’s job” people are nowhere to be found right now.

fujishig 04-28-21 10:52 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 13927045)
I mentioned this is another thread but this incident happens in my town, probably 5 minutes from my house. This is also EXACTLY what people are referring to when they talk about social workers being involved. Yet those “I’d like to see a social worker do law enforcement’s job” people are nowhere to be found right now.

It takes time to look up how many parking and jaywalking tickets Garner had, they'll be back soon.

B5Erik 04-28-21 11:14 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nick Danger (Post 13927028)
Loveland, CO police officer dislocates the shoulder of an 80 pound woman with dementia. Then he shows the bodycam footage to other officers and says, "Ready for the pop?" Another officer says, "I love this."

https://apnews.com/article/colorado-...1a0a8b93712bf5

Required Political Forum commentary: I think this is a bad thing.

That's just sick. Disgusting.

He SHOULD face charges for that.

That's a serious failing in vetting/screening applicants there. This guy had to show red flags somwhere, somehow.

fujishig 04-28-21 11:20 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 13927061)
That's just sick. Disgusting.

He SHOULD face charges for that.

That's a serious failing in vetting/screening applicants there. This guy had to show red flags somwhere, somehow.

I mean what about the other police officers who rewatched the video with him? One was disgusted but it still wasn't called out as egregious or anything, and then that one guy was just overly exuberant. Again, not just "one" bad cop.

New Lurker 04-28-21 11:30 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
It's too easy to become a police officer. I graduated from an academy in 2009. There were genuinely wonderful people in my class that have gone on to do good things for the community. But there were also a lot of meatheads. I had a 95% average and I ranked like 20 out of 40. They straight up would leave the test answers on the screen during our review, let you copy them, and then just memorize the answers for the next day. If you want to weed out the meathead high school mentality types, it's got to start at the training level. Make this shit harder to learn and actually hold people accountable for not putting in the mental work necessary. The academy here basically turns into a profit farm for the college it's attached to. They churn out about 50 new certified officers every 6 months... and there's nowhere near 100 openings in a year within 50 miles of where I live.

I could see a ton of the guys from my class acting exactly as described above. Just laughing and mocking people they hurt and never growing out of that high school mentality. The laws have to change. The training has to change. The whole idea of policing has to change. But until they do, meatheads are gonna meathead.

Draven 04-28-21 11:43 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 13927061)
That's just sick. Disgusting.

He SHOULD face charges for that.

That's a serious failing in vetting/screening applicants there. This guy had to show red flags somwhere, somehow.

What red flags do you think he would show that disqualify him from becoming a police officer? Solving problems with violence and pain is pretty much a requirement, right? That was the justification I heard for Chauvin, that he needed to be that physical with Floyd to make him comply.

I’m just wondering what the flags would be to prevent that - isn’t overwhelming violence to squash resistance a core principal of American policing?

New Lurker 04-28-21 11:52 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 13927077)
What red flags do you think he would show that disqualify him from becoming a police officer? Solving problems with violence and pain is pretty much a requirement, right? That was the justification I heard for Chauvin, that he needed to be that physical with Floyd to make him comply.

I’m just wondering what the flags would be to prevent that - isn’t overwhelming violence to squash resistance a core principal of American policing?

The psych tests to get into the academy are pretty easy to pass. They only people they would weed out would be people that outwardly could not control their actions. Like if you were a hardcore misogynist and they asked questions about women's rights and you snapped, you'd be disqualified. But, like I assume most terrible people can, if you could hide your problematic behavior and answer "like a normal person" you would pass. Pretty much if you're a crazy that would shoot up a school they could catch that. But if you were just a run of the mill average dickhead, or smart enough to know to hide your issues, you'd get through just fine.

Just as another aside of how easy little they actually care... I am legally blind in my left eye. Something like 30 / 200 vision in it. Blurred color only and no ability to read in that eye. During the physical for entry, I just memorized the eye chart real quick with my good eye. Checked that box and passed me without even looking at my medical chart. They don't care.

B5Erik 04-28-21 11:53 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 13927077)
What red flags do you think he would show that disqualify him from becoming a police officer? Solving problems with violence and pain is pretty much a requirement, right? That was the justification I heard for Chauvin, that he needed to be that physical with Floyd to make him comply.

I’m just wondering what the flags would be to prevent that - isn’t overwhelming violence to squash resistance a core principal of American policing?

No.

Draven 04-28-21 12:28 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 13927088)
No.

Really? Certainly seems to be their go-to these days.

Giantrobo 04-28-21 03:06 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nick Danger (Post 13927028)
Loveland, CO police officer dislocates the shoulder of an 80 pound woman with dementia. Then he shows the bodycam footage to other officers and says, "Ready for the pop?" Another officer says, "I love this."



https://apnews.com/article/colorado-...1a0a8b93712bf5

Required Political Forum commentary: I think this is a bad thing.

Sigh...they're abusing mentally challenged old white women. And laughing about it. I'm asking you White America...when will you get fed up with Cop abuse? It's no longer just those pesky Blacks and Latinos getting abused and killed. Not that ignoring abuse was ok then...but you get my point. I've been posting on Social Media News pages like Yahoo that THIS is exactly the kind of story where White People need to get upset, bring attention too, and even protest.

But it seems lots of White Americans only care about whites getting abused by cops when they're trolling blacks. "But what about this white person? We didn't hear anything about them"

spainlinx0 04-28-21 03:12 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 13927173)
Sigh...they're abusing mentally challenged old white women. And laughing about it. I'm asking you White America...when will you get fed up with Cop abuse? It's no longer just those pesky Blacks and Latinos getting abused and killed. Nto that ignroing abuse was ok then...but you get my point. I've been posting on Social Media News pages like Yahoo that THIS is exactly the kind of story where White People need to get upset, bring attention too, and even protest.

But it seems lots of White Americans only care about whites getting abused by cops when they're trolling blacks. "But what about this white person? We didn't hear anything about them"

I've been talking about the problems with policing for as long as I can remember. I feel like only today when this topic is discussed do I have people actually agreeing with me instead of looking at me aghast. This story won't get too much traction because it's indefensible. So they will say "oh just a crazy one-off cop" and it won't be examined further than that. Those people who love the police cough cough Erik cough cough will never look at a video like this and understand what it says about all policing, even though this was apparently a situation a bunch of other cops felt comfortable laughing about instead of being horrified by what one of their brothers in blue had just done.

PerryD 04-28-21 03:16 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 13927173)
Sigh...they're abusing mentally challenged old white women. And laughing about it. I'm asking you White America...when will you get fed up with Cop abuse? It's no longer just those pesky Blacks and Latinos getting abused and killed. Nto that ignroing abuse was ok then...but you get my point. I've been posting on Social Media News pages like Yahoo that THIS is exactly the kind of story where White People need to get upset, bring attention too, and even protest.

But it seems lots of White Americans only care about whites getting abused by cops when they're trolling blacks. "But what about this white person? We didn't hear anything about them"

I think the body cams is a great way for accountability. And I love that the security cameras in the police station were released. I would love to have body cam and vehicle cam footage be available online for every traffic stop. Then I could see whether or not I came to a "complete stop" or not at a stop sign when I got my last ticket rather than have to take the cop's word.

Someone mentioned before that we wouldn't let doctors practice medicine if they made mistakes that killed people, and I countered that we already do let them as they kill some 250,000 people a year from mistakes they make. Thinking about it, surgeons and staff should wear body cams also and cameras should be above each operating table, and footage be destroyed only after patient or families give consent.

Giantrobo 04-28-21 03:18 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 13927176)
I've been talking about the problems with policing for as long as I can remember. I feel like only today when this topic is discussed do I have people actually agreeing with me instead of looking at me aghast. This story won't get too much traction because it's indefensible. So they will say "oh just a crazy one-off cop" and it won't be examined further than that. Those people who love the police cough cough Erik cough cough will never look at a video like this and understand what it says about all policing, even though this was apparently a situation a bunch of other cops felt comfortable laughing about instead of being horrified by what one of their brothers in blue had just done.

Yeah I've seen people say she got what she deserved. Wow. And then the fellow cops co-signing abuse is terrifying. Because you see right there on video why Cops do what they do.

spainlinx0 04-28-21 03:20 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I also like the idea that any time body cams are "turned off" or had some weird "malfunction" or they "forgot to charge it" that officers should be charged with destroying evidence. At the minimum, if a cop has no good reason why the camera wasn't working, nothing he reports should be accepted as fact.

Giantrobo 04-28-21 03:28 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 13927186)
I also like the idea that any time body cams are "turned off" or had some weird "malfunction" or they "forgot to charge it" that officers should be charged with destroying evidence. At the minimum, if a cop has no good reason why the camera wasn't working, nothing he reports should be accepted as fact.


Yeah, the fact that body cams almost always work just fine, has perfect angles, and shoot in 4k HD when PD's feel a cop is "in the right", like in the case of the 16yo girl with the knife, is not lost on me. Meanwhile, in other questionable cases...the tech seems wonky somehow.

Draven 04-28-21 03:43 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 13927193)
Yeah, the fact that body cams almost always work just fine, has perfect angles, and shoot in 4k HD when PD's feel a cop is "in the right", like in the case of the 16yo girl with the knife, is not lost on me. Meanwhile, in other questionable cases...the tech seems wonky somehow.

I never followed up on this but didn't the say Chauvin's camera fell off? I never saw anyone ask why didn't he pick it up and put it back on?

spainlinx0 04-28-21 03:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Heat of the moment? They have time to plant drugs while in the heat of the moment, but no time to turn on their cameras.

Nick Danger 04-28-21 05:07 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 13927193)
Yeah, the fact that body cams almost always work just fine, has perfect angles, and shoot in 4k HD when PD's feel a cop is "in the right", like in the case of the 16yo girl with the knife, is not lost on me. Meanwhile, in other questionable cases...the tech seems wonky somehow.

In the video, a conversation about the arrest starts at 17:00 that begins with "Did you turn it off?"


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