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-   -   The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/597561-cops-behaving-badly-thread.html)

Michael Corvin 06-16-20 10:53 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 13758469)
Shit, they would have taken him and gotten him some food at that very Wendys. :sarcasm:

Exactly. Take him in for coffee while he sobered up.

New Lurker 06-16-20 11:37 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by movieguru (Post 13758023)
He wasn't holding a can of soup, he was holding a weapon that he had had violently stolen from a cop and then aimed it at the cop. If he was successful at tasing the cop, he could have easily taken the cops gun. If he had acted like an adult in the first place, he wouldn't have been driving under the influence and would have cooperated with the cop when he was being arrested. He choose to act like a thug, and as a result of his own stupidity and ignorance he is now dead.

Wanted to get back to this reply sooner, but it limited me to two replies in 24 hours because I'm new I guess.

Cops are not allowed to extrapolate what could or might happen three steps down the line for use of deadly force. The statute Tennessee vs Garner is very specific. It has to be immediate threat of death or dismemberment. You don't have to like it, but that is the law. There were no pedestrians. There were no hostages. He had no lethal weapon and no means of causing immediate death or dismemberment to either officer. They did not live up to the legal standard to use lethal force. It was an unlawful murder.

The fact that you're throwing around the word thug in the first place shows you don't want to have a rational discussion on what's legal or moral. You just want to blame the dirty criminal for his violent thuggish offense of... falling sleep.



Originally Posted by maxfisher (Post 13758420)
Seeing the number of people who are ok with cops shooting a fleeing suspect who had discharged a non-lethal weapon, it’s no wonder many cops across the country have come to believe their power is absolute.

This. So much this. I've seen so many people trying to justify this unlawful murder. It's just really sad to see.

brayzie 06-16-20 05:36 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13758643)
What happened with those rich white thieves?

Nothing.

We thought initially it was a random burglary. My family made the police report, the cops checked the whole house for clues/evidence, but they didn’t find anything and never made any arrests.

It was maybe...around 2-6 months later, maybe longer, that my aunt and uncle realized who did it. But for a few specific reasons they never went to the police with what they knew.


movieguru 06-17-20 05:57 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by New Lurker (Post 13758700)
Wanted to get back to this reply sooner, but it limited me to two replies in 24 hours because I'm new I guess.

Cops are not allowed to extrapolate what could or might happen three steps down the line for use of deadly force. The statute Tennessee vs Garner is very specific. It has to be immediate threat of death or dismemberment. You don't have to like it, but that is the law. There were no pedestrians. There were no hostages. He had no lethal weapon and no means of causing immediate death or dismemberment to either officer. They did not live up to the legal standard to use lethal force. It was an unlawful murder.

The fact that you're throwing around the word thug in the first place shows you don't want to have a rational discussion on what's legal or moral. You just want to blame the dirty criminal for his violent thuggish offense of... falling sleep.




This. So much this. I've seen so many people trying to justify this unlawful murder. It's just really sad to see.

You must not have watched 90% of the video. How about driving while intoxicated, assault, resisting arrest, theft.

Draven 06-17-20 06:37 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by movieguru (Post 13759069)
You must not have watched 90% of the video. How about driving while intoxicated, assault, resisting arrest, theft.

It started because he fell asleep in a drive thru. It shouldn’t have ended with death. He did nothing to deserve death.

Deadman31 06-17-20 06:42 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
It’s not like they walked up and shot him while he was sleeping. It seems like they were handling the situation and then he went over the edge. One thing I don’t understand is why they couldn’t have just aimed for an ankle instead of shooting him in the back if they felt they had to. Or is that only how it works on tv?

Noonan 06-17-20 07:20 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Deadman31 (Post 13759078)
It’s not like they walked up and shot him while he was sleeping. It seems like they were handling the situation and then he went over the edge. One thing I don’t understand is why they couldn’t have just aimed for an ankle instead of shooting him in the back if they felt they had to. Or is that only how it works on tv?

Cops are trained to fire at center mass to reduce any misses which could cause collateral damage. Cops will NEVER aim for anything other than the upper body in real life (outside of SWAT, sniper, etc type of situation).

movieguru 06-17-20 07:40 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Deadman31 (Post 13759078)
It’s not like they walked up and shot him while he was sleeping. It seems like they were handling the situation and then he went over the edge. One thing I don’t understand is why they couldn’t have just aimed for an ankle instead of shooting him in the back if they felt they had to. Or is that only how it works on tv?

.
That would mostly only happen on TV. Cops aren't professional marksmen. There's no way they would have a 100% profeciency in hitting the ankle of a moving target. They would probably have a 1% chance in hitting thaqt kind of a target whereas, there's probably closer to at least a 90% chance of them hitting the upper body (a much lager moving target). You don't want the bullets to riccochet and hit an unintended person, so shooting at the ankles would be extremely risky.

For those that are saying they shot a fleeing subject, he was firing a weapon at them while running away, so he was acting in an offensive manner.

joeblow69 06-17-20 08:29 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Did you see this poor cop, too afraid from anti-cop sentiment to actually pick up her food from mcdonalds!

maxfisher 06-17-20 08:41 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by movieguru;[url=tel:13759084
13759084[/url]].
That would mostly only happen on TV. Cops aren't professional marksmen. There's no way they would have a 100% profeciency in hitting the ankle of a moving target. They would probably have a 1% chance in hitting thaqt kind of a target whereas, there's probably closer to at least a 90% chance of them hitting the upper body (a much lager moving target). You don't want the bullets to riccochet and hit an unintended person, so shooting at the ankles would be extremely risky.

For those that are saying they shot a fleeing subject, he was firing a weapon at them while running away, so he was acting in an offensive manner.

Two things. First, to get to your 90% certainty of hitting him, they have to shoot 4-6 shots, as the data on police hit rates puts them at 30% - 40%. The converse of that is that there’s a 99.9% chance that at least one of their shots is missing him entirely and going into whatever building, person, vehicle, etc happens to be behind him.

So, even if you take the gross ‘everyone who physically fights back and runs from police deserves to die’ moral stance, you’re still accepting making this situation far more dangerous to nearby citizens by saying the cops should fire. In this instance, it feels absurdly idiotic to propose that Brooks running away with a spent taser posed more danger to anyone than cops opening fire and sending 60% - 70% of their shots into whatever happened to be somewhere behind Brooks.

Second, he fired a non-lethal weapon, rendering that weapon useless at any distance. The way some people are describing this feels like they think a taser is some kind of wizard’s staff that can continuously fire bolts of lightning across great distances. If someone unsuccessfully tries to hit someone else with a bat and then runs away while still holding the bat, they are no longer ‘acting in an offensive manner.’

Coral 06-17-20 08:48 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by joeblow69 (Post 13759096)
Did you see this poor cop, too afraid from anti-cop sentiment to actually pick up her food from mcdonalds!
https://twitter.com/tkag2020_ann/sta...75677454098436

She's worried about her food and cries because McD's messed up her order. A black person is worried he'll soon be dead when a cop approaches.
Now she knows exactly how a black person feels.

Yeah, not really.

fujishig 06-17-20 09:08 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by joeblow69 (Post 13759096)
Did you see this poor cop, too afraid from anti-cop sentiment to actually pick up her food from mcdonalds!
https://twitter.com/tkag2020_ann/sta...75677454098436

I don't get it, does she think her order is late because she's a cop, or is she now so suspicious of other people that she believes everyone is out to get her so even a small delay in her order makes here think people are doing stuff to her food because she's a cop? Because I can tell you right now, that's not going to help her be non discriminatory and thinking of people as anything other than her enemy when she pulls people over or whatever.

I do hope that even in some small way she can see how being treated a certain way as a group can make people nervous about the intentions of others in even the most routine situations. Probably not though.

The other thing I don't get is her mentioning that she orders ahead because she doesn't want other people to pay for her food. Does she have other people paying for her food because she's a cop? It makes it seem like she's used to being treated like royalty at this Mcdonalds or whatever and when it doesn't happen she gets upset. Am I misunderstanding her or something?

Also some of these replies to the tweet:

walk away... from blacks? Does that mean what I think it means?


New Lurker 06-17-20 11:17 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by movieguru (Post 13759069)
You must not have watched 90% of the video. How about driving while intoxicated, assault, resisting arrest, theft.

I watched it all, you just misunderstood what I said. The offense they were called in for was a man asleep in a drive-thru. Not a violent criminal robbing them. Not a domestic abuse situation. Not attempted murder. Just a dude that fell asleep in the wrong place.


Originally Posted by movieguru (Post 13759084)
.
For those that are saying they shot a fleeing subject, he was firing a weapon at them while running away, so he was acting in an offensive manner.

Again there is a very clear legal definition of what police are allowed to use deadly force for. They can't use it for just "firing a weapon" as you describe it. It HAS TO BE immediate death or dismemberment. They frisked him. They knew he didn't have a gun or a knife. He took their taser. They knew he only had their taser. They know tasers are non-lethal. You can argue for what you feel all you want, but your feelings are invalid in the eyes of the law. The statue has been repeatedly referenced by myself and other posters. For whatever reason you're still trying to dismiss it. They are not allowed to shoot for any reason when the suspect is only firing a taser. Period.


Originally Posted by Noonan (Post 13759079)
Cops are trained to fire at center mass to reduce any misses which could cause collateral damage. Cops will NEVER aim for anything other than the upper body in real life (outside of SWAT, sniper, etc type of situation).

Yes this is correct. The point of using any level of force is to stop a suspect's actions. In a situation where lethal force is warranted, the force that will stop their actions the quickest is to shoot center mass. Unlike the military, you're not trained to shoot to kill. You're trained to shoot to stop their actions, but you do so by using the shot most likely to stop their actions and in the quickest manor possible.

So if the level of force has properly escalated to immediate death or dismemberment the first place, you aren't worried about trying to save the suspect. You're trying to save innocent people or your own life. You shoot to stop their actions as quick as possible.

joeblow69 06-17-20 11:22 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Last night I saw a cop explaining how he thought the taser would be considered a deadly weapon (paraphrasing):

Police officers are professionally trained to use tasers safely, so when THEY use them, it is not a deadly weapon. When a random citizen uses a taser, it can most definitely be considered deadly because they lack that training.
No clue if that will fly in front of a judge.

atrium 06-17-20 11:41 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Michael Corvin 06-17-20 11:42 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
:lol: that just sounds fucking stupid.

fujishig 06-17-20 11:55 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
There's this edit:


spainlinx0 06-17-20 12:08 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Is that lady serious? It's a very common occurrence to be told to pull over to a spot because the order isn't ready. I don't think she's mentally stable enough to interact with the general public as a human, let alone to have a badge and authority.

You can definitely say how little it takes for a cop to "fear for their life."

joeblow69 06-17-20 12:10 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
It's probably due to the Shake Shack incident. Cops literally making up stories so that we'll feel bad for them, while also causing anxiety to other cops, so we feel sorry for them too!

fujishig 06-17-20 12:22 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Here's the proof we need that not all cops are racist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...l_in_the_head/

Seriously though, wth? Unless we're missing the cut on the video where that girl takes like three officers down with her kung fu, I don't see how this is defensible.

Oh, and this is apparently from 2018, so apologies if this was posted earlier in the thread.

atrium 06-17-20 12:44 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13759229)
Here's the proof we need that not all cops are racist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...l_in_the_head/

Seriously though, wth? Unless we're missing the cut on the video where that girl takes like three officers down with her kung fu, I don't see how this is defensible.

Oh, and this is apparently from 2018, so apologies if this was posted earlier in the thread.

What are you talking about. His manhood was challenged by a non-submissive woman, of course she deserved a mouthful of sand and a disorderly conduct charge.



Michael Corvin 06-17-20 03:39 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Jeezus. What the fuck man. Videos like that just reinforce that the entire system needs to be overhauled.

Abob Teff 06-17-20 03:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 13759074)
It started because he fell asleep in a drive thru. It shouldn’t have ended with death. He did nothing to deserve death.


Technically, it started when he got drunk and got behind the wheel of a vehicle. Illegal, stupid, but not worthy of death (even though he could have killed somebody else).

Then it continued when he fell asleep/passed out from intoxication behind the wheel of a vehicle while in the drive-thru lane. Again, illegal, stupid, but not worthy of death (even though he could have killed somebody else).

It continued when the police officers were called to respond. It continued as he cooperated for approximately 20 minutes as they talked to him and administered field sobriety tests and a breathalizer test. Nobody got hurt, nobody caused a problem.

When the officers advised him he was going to be arrested for driving while intoxicated (as evidenced by the failed field sobriety test, the breathelizer test, and finding him passed out/asleep behind the wheel), he escalated the situation by deciding to fight the cops. Again, illegal, stupid, but not worthy of death ... but you are starting to warm up the wheel of mayhem.

Then it continued when all three of them went to the ground and he managed to take a weapon (taser) away from an officer, break free, and run away. Once again, illegal, stupid, but not worthy of death ... but fate is being tempted.

At the point he decided to turn towards the officers, while fleeing, and fire the weapon ... illegal, stupid, but not worthy of death AS A PUNISHMENT FOR HIS CRIMES ... but now things just drastically changed and an officer's training is to return fire with fire. It isn't a PUNISHMENT. It isn't retaliatory. It is putting an end to a threat. If we want to discuss the efficacy of that training, I am ready and willing for us to have that meaningful conversation.

I said before ... YES, the officer "knew" it was a taser being fired at him. But training and adrenaline don't adhere to the little corners of the mind.

Yes. It sucks. Yes, I am sorry for the loss of Mr. Brooks' life. However, I am still waiting for evidence that this was anything other than a fucked up situation that ended badly. There may be evidence of that. If there is, I am ready and willing to say I am wrong in my perception. However, jumping to "all cops are pieces of shit and all white cops are hunting black men" and disregarding facts to support that bias is not helpful. That mentality is no better than the mentality of the particular individuals that are being rightfully scrutinized.

Abob Teff 06-17-20 03:54 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by joeblow69 (Post 13759096)
Did you see this poor cop, too afraid from anti-cop sentiment to actually pick up her food from mcdonalds!
https://twitter.com/tkag2020_ann/sta...75677454098436


I made it 30 seconds ... is there a point to her bullshit? BREAKING NEWS: MCDONALDS' SERVICE FROM MINIMUM WAGE TEENAGERS SUCKS

Abob Teff 06-17-20 03:58 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13759113)
I do hope that even in some small way she can see how being treated a certain way as a group can make people nervous about the intentions of others in even the most routine situations. Probably not though.

Close down the internet for the day, we have our winner.


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