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-   -   The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/597561-cops-behaving-badly-thread.html)

The Cow 07-11-16 03:54 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by JimRochester (Post 12847340)
According to the Washington Post which analyzed nationwide police killings for 2015: 50% were white, 26% were black, 17% were Hispanic. So the narrative that police is out gunning for blacks is incorrect by an almost 2:1 margin.

That's against totals (population). The narrative is in regards to how that fits into how many whites/black/hispanic/etc there are proportionally.

wearetheborg 07-11-16 04:16 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by The Cow (Post 12847349)
That's against totals (population). The narrative is in regards to how that fits into how many whites/black/hispanic/etc there are proportionally.

Robo will object that talking about fancy notions like proportions is confusing.

Draven 07-11-16 04:59 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by JimRochester (Post 12847340)
According to the Washington Post which analyzed nationwide police killings for 2015: 50% were white, 26% were black, 17% were Hispanic. So the narrative that police is out gunning for blacks is incorrect by an almost 2:1 margin.

Here in Minnesota, they are certainly pulling black people over at a MUCH higher rate than whites.


1. Drivers of color are more likely to be pulled over than whites.

Black drivers in particular were stopped far more than their share of the driving-age population: 214 percent more often than expected. Latino drivers were stopped 95 percent more often, but white drivers were stopped 13 percent less than expected. Native American and Asian drivers were also stopped less often than average.

https://i2.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

2. Blacks aren’t more likely to be pulled over for equipment violations.

The Council tested the theory that “drivers of color might be more likely than white drivers to be stopped for equipment violations” — such as a broken taillight — but found no overall evidence for this fact.

Statewide, 13.8 percent of stops were due to equipment violations, but only 11 percent of black drivers were stopped for that reason. Native American and Latino drivers were stopped at above-average rates for equipment issues.

https://i0.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

3. Once pulled over, drivers of color are more likely to be searched.

The Council’s report looked at discretionary searches — cases where police officers weren’t required by procedure to search a driver but had the discretion to do so.

In the participating jurisdictions, black drivers were submitted to discretionary searches 12.6 percent of the time, while white drivers were 3 percent of the time. Native American and Latino drivers were searched more frequently than average, while Asian drivers were searched less frequently.

https://i1.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

4. Black drivers are more likely to be searched because of a concern for “officer safety.”

Overall, 18 percent of searches were conducted because the officer was concerned for his or her safety. But 28.6 percent of black drivers were searched for this reason.

Black drivers were less likely to be searched because the officer observed contraband. White drivers were more likely to be searched after giving consent for a search.

https://i0.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

5. Once searched, black drivers were less likely to be found with contraband.

In the Council study, 17 percent of all searched drivers had some sort of contraband. White drivers were caught with contraband at above-average rates (23.5 percent), while black drivers were caught at below-average rates (11 percent). Latino and Asian drivers were below average, while Native Americans were above.

https://i2.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

6. Drivers of color were more likely to be arrested after a traffic stop.

About 4.5 percent of all traffic stops in the study ended with an arrest, but about 8 percent of black and Latino drivers were arrested, while just 3.5 percent of white drivers were arrested.

More than 52 percent of stops ended in a warning, but black drivers were less likely to get a warning (47.5 percent) and white drivers more likely (53.5 percent).

https://i0.wp.com/www.twincities.com...2C100%2C9999px

wearetheborg 07-11-16 05:22 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12847416)
Here in Minnesota, they are certainly pulling black people over at a MUCH higher rate than whites.



About 4.5 percent of all traffic stops in the study ended with an arrest, but about 8 percent of black and Latino drivers were arrested, while just 3.5 percent of white drivers were arrested.


That last statistic indicates that black drivers should be stopped *more* till the arrest rate becomes the same for all ethnicities.

If the chances of a middle eastern male being a terrorist is twice that of a black male, it doesn't make sense to distribute law enforcement time equally across the two.

If a white male is twice as likely to commit tax fraud than a latino, it doesn't make sense for IRS to audit both at the same rate.

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 05:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Does this data reflect the geographic area, or is this, once again, information that is being distributed in a careless manner which does not reflect the types of neighborhoods these stops were conducted in.

I don't see any reference to geographic area, and just a generalized graph stating "Blacks get stopped more. Racist."

For example, you don't see a lot of traffic stops in farming country but you do see a high percentage in neighborhoods which have high criminal activity.

Believe it or not, traffic stops prevent a lot of crime within that community. Stolen items in the backseat (which were recently reported from neighbors getting passed on to cops on regular patrol), illegal weapons in the vehicle, and even domestic issues such as "kidnappings" of children by the parent.

Josh-da-man 07-11-16 06:08 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Asian drivers were also stopped less often than average.
So is that stereotype I've heard since I was a kid not true?

Draven 07-11-16 06:10 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12847456)
Does this data reflect the geographic area, or is this, once again, information that is being distributed in a careless manner which does not reflect the types of neighborhoods these stops were conducted in.

I don't see any reference to geographic area, and just a generalized graph stating "Blacks get stopped more. Racist."

That's why I included a link to the article. Feel free to check out their methodology.

Where did you see the word "racist"?

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 06:14 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 12847474)
So is that stereotype I've heard since I was a kid not true?

http://www.yomyomf.com/chinky-or-not...s-bad-drivers/

Worldwide, more than half of all car fatalities are Asian drivers. :shrug:

Something fishy in Minnowsota!

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 06:18 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12847479)
That's why I included a link to the article. Feel free to check out their methodology.

Where did you see the word "racist"?

It was all over that web page. You can't see it? It's everywhere.

You're not looking hard enough.

Supermallet 07-11-16 06:34 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by wearetheborg (Post 12847434)
That last statistic indicates that black drivers should be stopped *more* till the arrest rate becomes the same for all ethnicities.

If the chances of a middle eastern male being a terrorist is twice that of a black male, it doesn't make sense to distribute law enforcement time equally across the two.

If a white male is twice as likely to commit tax fraud than a latino, it doesn't make sense for IRS to audit both at the same rate.

You may not realize that there are, or there used to be, limits against racial profiling in this country.

Giantrobo 07-11-16 06:43 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by wearetheborg (Post 12847385)
Robo will object that talking about fancy notions like proportions is confusing.

:lol::up: I understand it. I just don't like that human lives are boiled down to just numbers. I wouldn't want a Cop's life boiled down to just numbers, and sure as fuck don't want the lives of my People boiled down to just numbers.

If that in your eyes makes me out to be someone who doesn't get it, then that makes me HAPPY.

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 07:03 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 12847515)
You may not realize that there are, or there used to be, limits against racial profiling in this country.

Racial profiling is exactly what it is. Profiling people based EXCLUSIVELY ON THEIR RACE. And I totally support this as ONE ELEMENT of a profile does not catch a criminal.

What you are unwilling to accept, is if a male, 25 years of age, Black, fleeing from the scene of a grocery store, who recently robbed it...will have an effect on Black males, 25-years of age, who match this description in the immediate vicinity.

How else do you catch criminals if not to match characteristics with similar people?

A description is also given from witnesses, so the police might be looking for the wrong suspect. However, that is not the fault of police officers. That's the fault of the eye-witness.

Police only go by the evidence they are given.

What's your solution to catching criminals?

If a White male robs a store, do you really think cops are on the lookout for a Black male? If an Asian male robs a store, do you think cops are still after those Black males?

The facts prove you wrong, almost every single time. Because sure, there will be bad cops. Of course. But most of the time, cops act honestly with the information they are given.

Just like Micah Johnson does NOT represent all Blacks, you should give officers the same benefit of the doubt.

Draven 07-11-16 07:09 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12847491)
It was all over that web page. You can't see it? It's everywhere.

You're not looking hard enough.

You said they stated "Blacks get stopped more. Racist."

Where did they state this?

Supermallet 07-11-16 07:16 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12847550)
Racial profiling is exactly what it is. Profiling people based EXCLUSIVELY ON THEIR RACE. And I totally support this as ONE ELEMENT of a profile does not catch a criminal.

What you are unwilling to accept, is if a male, 25 years of age, Black, fleeing from the scene of a grocery store, who recently robbed it...will have an effect on Black males, 25-years of age, who match this description in the immediate vicinity.

How else do you catch criminals if not to match characteristics with similar people?

A description is also given from witnesses, so the police might be looking for the wrong suspect. However, that is not the fault of police officers. That's the fault of the eye-witness.

Police only go by the evidence they are given.

What's your solution to catching criminals?

If a White male robs a store, do you really think cops are on the lookout for a Black male? If an Asian male robs a store, do you think cops are still after those Black males?

The facts prove you wrong, almost every single time. Because sure, there will be bad cops. Of course. But most of the time, cops act honestly with the information they are given.

Just like Micah Johnson does NOT represent all Blacks, you should give officers the same benefit of the doubt.

Again, you keep conflating specific instances with institutional patterns. Should police if given a description of a suspect that includes the person's skin color look for people with that skin color? Obviously. I never said otherwise. But what's happening systematically is not a case of "Well there was a black suspect in the area so we pulled over more black people today", because then you'd see a more random distribution of those stats that Draven posted for example.

The problem here is systemic.

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 07:24 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
So how does saying this is a "systemic" problem equate with a very small percentage of shootings?

If this was such a systemic problem, wouldn't we see many times more Blacks being arrested and killed for crimes they didn't commit? It's way too easy call this a systemic problem. Sure, there might even be "bad police departments", and I won't deny this. But there are countless amounts of evidence which say most major police departments, if not all the major departments, are very tough on their cops, and even restrain them to the point of absurdity.

At what point do you say something is NOT a systemic problem, and acknowledge that there will always be bad cops and bad shootings, regardless of the attempts of departments to stop them?

So far, I haven't heard anything about this recognition. It is simply unrealistic to think we can prevent all bad cop shootings. Just like it's unrealistic to expect we can prevent all civilian shootings, no matter how much regulation we impose.

In many large cities, where mayors and police chiefs are too concerned with their "image", cops are deciding to avoid confronting criminals in certain situations because they know...their police chief won't back them up, and they will be hung out to get screwed over in the public opinion arena. They know facts don't matter when it comes to politics and they know politics...have infiltrated their police departments.

Baron Of Hell 07-11-16 07:27 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12847550)
Racial profiling is exactly what it is. Profiling people based EXCLUSIVELY ON THEIR RACE. And I totally support this as ONE ELEMENT of a profile does not catch a criminal.

What you are unwilling to accept, is if a male, 25 years of age, Black, fleeing from the scene of a grocery store, who recently robbed it...will have an effect on Black males, 25-years of age, who match this description in the immediate vicinity.

How else do you catch criminals if not to match characteristics with similar people?

A description is also given from witnesses, so the police might be looking for the wrong suspect. However, that is not the fault of police officers. That's the fault of the eye-witness.

Police only go by the evidence they are given.

What's your solution to catching criminals?

If a White male robs a store, do you really think cops are on the lookout for a Black male? If an Asian male robs a store, do you think cops are still after those Black males?

The facts prove you wrong, almost every single time. Because sure, there will be bad cops. Of course. But most of the time, cops act honestly with the information they are given.

Just like Micah Johnson does NOT represent all Blacks, you should give officers the same benefit of the doubt.

In the latest murder the description given was wide nose. How many black people do you think have wide noses? If the police were being specific there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is they are using descriptions that can be applied to nearly all black people. This is was leads to harassment and in the latest case death to a innocent man.

Why So Blu? 07-11-16 07:31 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 



Am I too late to generalize?


:sarcasm:

DVD Polizei 07-11-16 07:33 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Was the cop being specific on requesting Castile to do certain things?

How do you know this was a death of an innocent man when the evidence has not been presented to a jury?

Again, I don't know who is innocent. In Castile's case, I think it was a matter of a cop who may have gotten too out of control, for whatever reason (hopefully we will know in the court process and the cop testifies as well as witnesses and more video is potentially available), and Castile made a move which may have been misinterpreted.

wearetheborg 07-12-16 11:55 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress...nimo-yanez.jpg

Jeronimo Yanez . The not.white.cop who shot Castile.

Supermallet 07-12-16 12:36 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12847574)
So how does saying this is a "systemic" problem equate with a very small percentage of shootings?

If this was such a systemic problem, wouldn't we see many times more Blacks being arrested and killed for crimes they didn't commit? It's way too easy call this a systemic problem. Sure, there might even be "bad police departments", and I won't deny this. But there are countless amounts of evidence which say most major police departments, if not all the major departments, are very tough on their cops, and even restrain them to the point of absurdity.

At what point do you say something is NOT a systemic problem, and acknowledge that there will always be bad cops and bad shootings, regardless of the attempts of departments to stop them?

So far, I haven't heard anything about this recognition. It is simply unrealistic to think we can prevent all bad cop shootings. Just like it's unrealistic to expect we can prevent all civilian shootings, no matter how much regulation we impose.

In many large cities, where mayors and police chiefs are too concerned with their "image", cops are deciding to avoid confronting criminals in certain situations because they know...their police chief won't back them up, and they will be hung out to get screwed over in the public opinion arena. They know facts don't matter when it comes to politics and they know politics...have infiltrated their police departments.

Again, your argument appears to be that if we can't perfectly solve the problem we shouldn't even try to improve. That's some bullshit right there.

Baron Of Hell 07-12-16 12:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by wearetheborg (Post 12848041)
https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress...nimo-yanez.jpg

Jeronimo Yanez . The not.white.cop who shot Castile.

Note he is also not female.

inri222 07-12-16 12:57 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Just like George Zimmerman.

DVD Polizei 07-12-16 01:49 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 12848066)
Again, your argument appears to be that if we can't perfectly solve the problem we shouldn't even try to improve. That's some bullshit right there.

What is a bullshit argument, is that we aren't trying to solve the problem already. We certainly are. You see new policies being created all the time.

With the increase in violence in America, the wrong policies are being implemented in the WRONG areas.

Maybe start focusing on personal responsibility instead of telling certain groups of people they can commit crimes because it's a "payback" for their heritage of oppression.

Giantrobo 07-12-16 02:06 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by wearetheborg (Post 12848041)
https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress...nimo-yanez.jpg

Jeronimo Yanez . The not.white.cop who shot Castile.

It was known that the cop wasn't White in this case...at least it was in the Black Circles I'm in. So what's your point?

inri222 07-12-16 02:42 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 12848145)
It was known that the cop wasn't White in this case...at least it was in the Black Circles I'm in. So what's your point?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3b3198d60a.jpg


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