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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 01-23-16, 11:50 AM
  #4176  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

"STOP RESISTING!"



http://i.imgur.com/TrqPCCF.gifv

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...ooper.html.csp

Federal jury rules in favor of speeding motorcyclist, against Oregon State Police trooper

A federal jury on Thursday ruled that Oregon State Police Capt. Rob Edwards violated a Eugene man’s civil rights by kicking him in the upper chest after chasing down his speeding motor*cycle on Crow Road.

The eight-member jury heard evidence in a trial in U.S. District Court in Eugene earlier this week, and spent about four hours Thursday deliberating before returning a verdict that supports Justin Wilkens’ excessive-force claim in regard to the kick.

Wilkens was awarded more than $180,000 in total damages.

Jurors additionally determined that Edwards acted with negligence when his police car rear-ended Wilkens’ motorcycle,
but ruled that the veteran state trooper did not violate Wilkens’ rights by pointing a gun at him and using force to handcuff and then pull Wilkens to his feet.

Wilkens suffered a broken left clavicle, a fractured rib and other injuries in the Aug. 3, 2012, incident.

“I’m just happy as heck,” Wilkens, 41, said as he left the courthouse moments after U.S. Magistrate Judge Tom Coffin read the verdict.

Edwards declined comment, and one of his lawyers — state Assistant Attorney General Dirk Pierson — said he was not authorized to speak on the case.

State police, in a statement released Thursday night, said the agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.”

State Department of Justice spokeswoman Kristina Edmunson, meanwhile, did not directly respond to a question regarding a potential appeal but said Thursday in a statement that officials in her office “respect today’s decision, and we are assessing our next steps.”

The jury awarded Wilkens more than $31,000 in economic damages to reimburse his medical expenses and motorcycle repair bills; $100,000 in non*economic damages for his injuries, pain and suffering; and $50,000 in punitive damages.

Wilkens’ attorney, Lauren Regan of Eugene, said the award of punitive damages signals that the jury felt Edwards used “malice” in dealing with Wilkens.

“It’s a message from the community,” she said.

Punitive damages are intended to discourage a defendant and others in similar positions from engaging in conduct that has prompted a lawsuit.

Regan, executive director of the Civil Liberties Defense Center in Eugene, said police agencies typically pay damages in cases where individual officers are found to have used excessive force against citizens.

The key piece of evidence in Wilkens’ case was a recording of the incident captured by an in-car video system in Edwards’ unmarked police vehicle. According to trial testimony, Edwards did not know the unmarked Chevrolet Camaro he was driving at the time was equipped with the video system.

The video, which Regan released to The Register-*Guard Thursday after the verdict, was played a number of times for the jury during the three-day trial. It shows Wilkens’ motor*cycle speeding past Edwards’ unmarked car, and then passing two other vehicles in no-*passing zones on Crow Road. Edwards gave chase but Wilkens did not immediately stop. The motor*cyclist finally pulled over when he reached the intersection of Crow Road and Highway 126 just west of Eugene.

Almost immediately after Wilkens stopped, the Camaro rear-ended his motorcycle while traveling at a low speed. Wilkens fell, then got up and saw Edwards pointing a gun at him.

Edwards then kicked Wilkens in the upper chest as the motor*cyclist slowly complied with commands to get onto the ground.

Edwards testified at trial that his actions were consistent with state police policy and training. State police investigated the incident and determined that the force used by Edwards was justified, ( ) and the Lane County District Attorney’s Office validated that ruling, District Attorney Patty Perlow told The Register-Guard on Thursday.

Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg. ( )

Edwards also said he accidentally “bumped” the back end of Wilkens’ motorcycle as a result of possible “brake fade” — a term used to describe the loss of braking power because of overheating. But Regan reminded jurors in a closing argument that a brake expert testified at trial that brake fade rarely occurs in modern brake systems. ( )

Edwards — who, according to trial testimony, received a written reprimand for neglecting to report his use of force against Wilkens to his direct supervisor in a telephone conversation shortly after the incident — testified that he was “frustrated” but not angry with Wilkens after chasing down the motorcyclist. He said he believed Wilkens was trying to elude him at speeds that exceeded 100 mph.

Perlow said Thursday that a prosecutor in her office reviewed the incident and declined to file an eluding charge against Wilkens because the prosecutor felt the allegation could not have been proved beyond a reasonable doubt.


Perlow said she does not know why Wilkens was not charged with reckless driving or any traffic violations, saying “it was clearly an oversight on our part.”

Wilkens testified that he did not recognize Edwards’ unmarked car as a police vehicle when he passed it, and that he didn’t know Edwards was pursuing him until he neared the intersection and stopped.

Wilkens said his tight-fitting motorcycle helmet impaired his ability to hear at the time, and that he did not see the Camaro’s flashing blue-and-red lights — which are embedded in the car’s grille — through a small, rear-view mirror. He testified that when he pulled over for Edwards, he expected to receive a “deserved” speeding ticket.

Edwards, 46, held the rank of lieutenant and served as supervisor of OSP’s Springfield office at the time of the incident. He was later promoted to captain and transferred in early 2015 to OSP’s headquarters in Bend. Edwards has been a state trooper for 22 years.
For fuck's sake....brake fade. BRAKE FADE!!! They seemed to work perfect when you hit someone. Maybe cops don't have to be under oath, or don't actually want the facts to come out in court. Sure makes it easier to win. Well, not this time. Thanks goodness we have cameras and these guys now. And is it any wonder that they don't like it?

And thank god the cop got what he deserved....a promotion.

What also amazes me is that this didn't violate procedures. That tells you that the cops think what happened here is okay....but also worth a reprimand...though it didn't violate procedure.

Man, they must feel safe in Eugene with guys like this keeping the scum in check. It must be part of why general respect for cops just continues to rise.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:02 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

That cop looks like Farva from Supertroopers.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:07 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post

Wilkens was trying to elude him at speeds that exceeded 100 mph.


Perlow said she does not know why Wilkens was not charged with reckless driving or any traffic violations, saying “it was clearly an oversight on our part.”


Wilkens said his tight-fitting motorcycle helmet impaired his ability to hear at the time, and that he did not see the Camaro’s flashing blue-and-red lights — which are embedded in the car’s grille — through a small, rear-view mirror.


Man, they must feel safe in Eugene with guys like this keeping the scum in check. It must be part of why general respect for cops just continues to rise.
You know, I'd rather dudes going 100mph not be on the road.

I also have difficulty believing he didn't hear the siren, didn't see the lights, and was not aware he was being chased.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:07 PM
  #4179  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I'll bet this guy learned this all on his own and not from all the veterans on the squad.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...rest/79071062/
A Wilmington police officer has been fired after he was arrested and charged with terroristic threatening Tuesday following an off-duty incident, city police said.

Julian Michel, 26, of Wilmington has since been released on unsecured bail, Sgt. Andrea Janvier said. He has served on the force for one year.

He was arrested Tuesday after the investigation into the incident concluded, she said.

The police department reviewed the incident internally and convened an administrative hearing, Janvier said. He was discharged from the force following the hearing.

The incident reportedly happened in the 300 block of Seventh Avenue on Jan. 10, when Michel threatened to arrest a victim for "DC" or disorderly conduct, according to documents obtained by The News Journal on Wednesday. The victim was helping a witness in the police complaint from his car to her door when he was approached by Michel, according to court documents.

Michel then told the victim "I'm going to call my boys and have them come and lock you up" after identifying himself as a Wilmington police officer, according to court documents.

The victim also told police he heard Michel say "I'm going to kill that mother —" before pointing his finger at the victim, according to court documents. He added "I'm going to shoot you," according to court documents.

Because Michel identified himself as a Wilmington police officer and the victim knew he had access to a weapon and may even have it on him, the victim feared for his life, according to court documents.

A witness supported the victim's statements, according to the documents, and a video recording shows Michel drive up, stop his car and confront the unidentified victim.


The terroristic threatening charge came from the comments Michel allegedly made, according to court documents.

Michel was hired by the department in December 2014 and graduated from the police academy in May 2015. His next court hearing is scheduled for Feb. 19, according to Toni Michel, his mother.
Protect and serve. But at least this is a case where the cop was fired. I'm sure he won't actually serve any time, and I don't really think he should, but he could use some anger management training. I don't know this, but I would also suspect that firing a cop in the first year or so is far and away easier than firing one that has been on the squad for a long time. Just guessing because it is that way with teachers.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:13 PM
  #4180  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
What also amazes me is that this didn't violate procedures. That tells you that the cops think what happened here is okay....but also worth a reprimand...though it didn't violate procedure.
That is what I don't agree with. The procedures are written to give police too much latitude, so even something like this can be considered as being allowed.

It's not the number of police incidents that bothers me, as much as the fact that a situation like that is seen as acceptable even after review.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:22 PM
  #4181  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

This is interesting. I was searching the Eugene cop and found this.

https://casetext.com/case/boyd-v-or-...robert-edwards

Background

On March 21, 2013, Boyd observed a fellow OSP officer, defendant Edwards, conduct what Boyd believed to be an unconstitutional search of a citizen's motor home. Boyd promptly reported the conduct to his immediate supervisor, who informed defendant Heider. On April 4, 2013, Heider served an official written directive on Boyd that instructed him to cease discussing Edwards's allegedly unconstitutional activities or Boyd would be subject to discipline. Boyd reported the written directive to his union attorney. On April 12, 2013, defendant Lanz, then the Captain supervising the OSP Office of Professional Responsibility, sent an email to Boyd. In this email, Lanz rescinded Heider's written directive and informed Boyd a separate written order was forthcoming. On April 19, 2013, Heider served Boyd with a second order that again directed Boyd to cease all communications about Edwards's allegedly illegal activities.

On that same day, defendant Lanz informed the president of the Oregon State Police Officers Association that Lanz intended to investigate Boyd for every minor infraction or perceived infraction because of Boyd's conduct in reporting Edwards. The defendants subsequently initiated several internal investigations targeting Boyd with no less than fourteen false allegations.

On October 19, 2013, the Eugene Police Department ("EPD") arrested Boyd in a manner that violated numerous EPD policies. Following the arrest, on October 21, 2013, the defendants placed Boyd on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of an internal investigation. On March 23, 2014, Edwards and Heider delivered a letter to Boyd announcing OSP's intention to terminate Boyd based upon their internal investigation. Boyd alleges this investigation was initiated in order to harass and retaliate against him for his report regarding Edwards. The letter*33informed Boyd he was on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the internal investigation and discipline process.

Boyd alleges the defendants fabricated evidence to support the initiation of the internal investigations and ignored exculpatory evidence that would have exonerated Boyd of any policy violations. After Boyd served the Oregon Department of Administrative Services with a tort claim notice on June 6, 2014, Lanz admitted to fabricating evidence in order to retaliate against Boyd for his report of Edwards's conduct. Ultimately, OSP decided not to terminate Boyd, and Boyd is currently scheduled to return to his original position.

After Boyd brought this action on February 12, 2015, his scheduled supervisor, defendant Gifford, told Boyd's coworkers that Boyd should not have been allowed to return to work and could not be trusted. In a subsequent meeting, Gifford and Edwards suggested to Boyd's coworkers that they limit contact with Boyd to avoid being involved in a lawsuit.
Yeah, snitches get stitches!

Obviously you should only uphold the law with the cattle we call citizens. We're immune, son.

Imagine what we'd learn if they actually protected whistle blowers by having allegations investigated by an outside agency and cops didn't cover for each other. Obviously we can't let that happen.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:28 PM
  #4182  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Just saw this local one. Nothing wrong here, but funny to me.

http://cbs12.com/news/nation-world/t...him-01-22-2016
SPOKANE (AP) — A teenager has been charged with driving under the influence after a Spokane police officer ran a red light and struck the teen's car.

The Spokesman-Review reports that court documents say Officer Seth Killian ran a red light on Dec. 8 and crashed into a car driven by a 16-year-old boy. Officers say the teen smelled like marijuana and had bloodshot and glassy eyes.

Documents say he admitted to smoking marijuana two hours before the crash.

Spokane police are still investigating. Killian was at fault, but Internal Affairs Lt. Justin Lundgren says the department will review whether Killian could have prevented the crash.

Killian was not drug tested. Lundgren says it's only policy to test officers involved in collisions if there's reasonable suspicion that they're impaired.
I would think that a cop, who has a fair amount of training, would be under reasonable suspicion simply by running a red light and crashing into someone else. I'd guess their threshold for "reasonable suspicion" is different for cops than for the rest of us. If I were running a department, I'd want him tested (and clean) just so this wasn't even an issue. But I wouldn't want to violate his rights, just everyone else's.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:46 PM
  #4183  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

On duty accidents lead to a mandatory Breathalyzer at the nearest PD for us.

Edit: Scratch that... I think it's mandatory if there's an injury or damage in excess of a certain $ value. I think the supervisor can order it in other cases. When I got rear ended, I didn't have to take one.

Last edited by CaptainMarvel; 01-23-16 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 01-23-16, 12:55 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I would think that a cop, who has a fair amount of training, would be under reasonable suspicion simply by running a red light and crashing into someone else. I'd guess their threshold for "reasonable suspicion" is different for cops than for the rest of us.

Observe the cognitive dissonance... one sentence supports the idea of holding police to a different standard, while the next laments the very same thing.
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Old 01-23-16, 01:02 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Dave, have you had bad experiences with cops?
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Old 01-23-16, 01:04 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Supposedly beaten while handcuffed

CBI Will Not Release Police Video Of Altercation That Left Man Paralyzed

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/01/2...man-paralyzed/
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Old 01-23-16, 01:07 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Supposedly beaten while handcuffed

CBI Will Not Release Police Video Of Altercation That Left Man Paralyzed

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/01/2...man-paralyzed/
White privilege!
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Old 01-23-16, 01:15 PM
  #4188  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d0c_story.html

Video is on the site.

FBI agent guilty of assault in an incident caught on cellphone video

The cellphone video — which would be played repeatedly for jurors — showed a rapidly deteriorating situation outside a high-rise apartment building in Chevy Chase, Md.

In the middle of the turmoil was FBI agent Gerald Rogero. He was off duty at the time, wearing civilian clothes, and had just struck a teenager in the chest, sending him backward onto the pavement. The teen got to his feet.

Rogero moved to place him under arrest.

“If I have to shoot you, I will,” he said. “Don’t make me shoot you.”

The video and the audio that went with it were at the heart of the prosecution of Rogero, 46, an agent for nearly 20 years who serves as a chief in the FBI’s counterterrorism division.

He was back in Montgomery County court Tuesday after being found guilty last week of second-degree assault. A jury acquitted him of a more serious first-degree assault count and a gun charge. The split verdict, arriving after about five hours of deliberations, suggested that jurors thought Rogero had acted illegally only to a point — when he improperly shoved the teenager. After the teenager got to his feet, and he and Rogero began wrestling, the agent was within his rights to pull a gun out of his ankle holster, point it at the youth and order him to the ground.

“We get to watch it on TV,” Rogero’s attorney, Marlon Griffith, told jurors before they rendered a verdict. “He lives it.”

Christopher Allen, an FBI spokesman, confirmed Tuesday that Rogero remains on active duty. He said that the bureau is conducting an internal review of the incident but that he could not comment further because the issue is a personnel matter.

The Dec. 5, 2014, altercation arose from a child custody drop-off.

Rogero was visiting a friend who was expecting to take custody of her 1-year-old daughter. The girl’s father arrived late with the child for the drop-off, starting the friction. Rogero and the teenager were among a group of people on hand for the exchange as it went from testy after the father’s late arrival to belligerent, the video shows.

Rogero, his attorney and prosecutors returned to court Tuesday to finish up two matters left hanging after the verdict was announced Friday.

Moments after he heard the jury’s decision Friday, Rogero appeared as if he were about to faint and was taken by ambulance from the courthouse.

The Tuesday court session was held to set a sentencing date and argue whether Rogero should surrender his weapons.

Circuit Judge Steven Salant set sentencing for Jan. 20.

Assistant State’s Attorney John Lalos then argued to the judge that Rogero should surrender his weapons — an FBI-issued service handgun and his personal handgun.

“At the end of the day, we are here because of the defendant’s conduct, off duty, while armed,” Lalos said.

Rogero’s attorney, Griffith, said that since the charges surfaced 11 months ago, Rogero has been allowed to carry a weapon. And he cited the outcome of the trial, when jurors acquitted his client on the charges that involved having a gun unholstered.

“It’s clear that in order for him to continue to be an FBI agent, he needs to be armed 24 hours a day,” Griffith said.

He indicated he will seek a sentence that would allow his client to remain on duty.
( Yes, we need more people like this guy on the streets)
Salant, who presided over Rogero’s trial, sided with Griffith. He said Rogero is entitled to make arrests and react to emergencies.

“I would not want to take that away — if in fact the public, in an emergency, needed his services,” Salant said in court.

The trial last week centered on a three-minute stretch shortly before 11 p.m. in early December. The video clearly showed the agent striking the teenager with force, but the recording had its limits. The narrow borders didn’t capture actions to the left and right of the frame. At times, people were talking over each other.

That left moments up for interpretation and, during the trial, allowed each side to say that the video supported its arguments.

“The defendant creates this situation,” Assistant State’s Attorney Mary Herdman told jurors in closing arguments. “The defendant is the aggressor in this situation, from the jump, and we see it on the video, which you guys have watched over and over.”

She suggested that Rogero, who testified, told jurors self-serving recollections of what was said just before the assault. “He has had 11 months to review this video, fill in the gaps, figure out what’s going to be most helpful,” the prosecutor said.

During his testimony last week, Rogero talked about trying to arrest the 15-year-old and threatening to shoot him. “It was a subconscious thing that I said,” he recalled, saying he spoke the words “to get him to comply with what I was asking him to do.” ( We need more guys like this on the streets)

Griffith said images and key moments in the video confirm that the agent faced an “imminent threat” from a mouthy teenager. “Thank God for video,” he said during closing arguments. “Thank God for video.”

After depicting the confrontation, the video shows the 15-year-old lying face down on the sidewalk. Things start to calm down, and a Montgomery County patrol officer arrives.

John McCarthy, the top prosecutor in Montgomery County, said the case was important to pursue. “You must honor your obligations under the law, and that’s what we did,” he said. “I think the video speaks for itself.”

The video captures how tension quickly rose after the father walked into the apartment building’s lobby, holding the child. Both sides were soon talking about calling the police. It is unclear whether anyone knew that Rogero was an FBI agent.

“You’re already two hours late,” Rogero said to the father, identified in court records as Edward Moawad.

Moawad gave the girl to the child’s mother. He walked outside. His girlfriend and her children also could be seen.

Rogero also walked outside and told Moawad he had been disrespectful by showing up so late. Moments later, Rogero turned to someone in the small crowd and said, “You’re going to get yourself locked up, so don’t act so stupid.”

At this point, the 15-year-old boy, wearing a red sweatshirt, walked up close to Rogero, standing about 18 inches away. It was unclear on the video what he said. During the trial, Rogero would testify that the teenager used vulgar terms to say he was about to attack.

Rogero suddenly struck the teenager with the heel of his hand, sending him reeling backward.

The agent turned to someone else. “You going to get in front of my face?” he said.

He turned back to the teenager, who had gotten to his feet. “You’re under arrest,” he said. “You’re under arrest right now.”

Rogero tried to get him to the ground. “If I have to shoot you, I will,” he told the boy. “Don’t make me shoot you.”

The two wrestled, and the teenager’s hands — perhaps inadvertently — went near Rogero’s ankle-holstered gun under his pants leg. The agent shook off the youth, reached down, pulled out his gun, pointed it at the teenager and ordered him to the pavement.

From there, as the police arrived, the altercation slowly calmed down.
Off duty cop. Starts shit because people need to see how big his dick is, and eventually pulls a gun on a 15 year old kid. But for God's sake, let's make sure this guy can continue his police work. Oh, we did.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...902_story.html

Snippets as much is repeated from the above.
Swayed by FBI agent’s job record, judge issues probation for shoving

An FBI agent convicted last year of shoving a Maryland teenager — in an off-duty confrontation captured on cellphone video and viewed across the nation — had his guilty finding dismissed Wednesday by a judge who called the incident an unfortunate mistake in an otherwise stellar career.

Salant could have given Rogero jail time. Instead, he put him on two years’ probation, ordered him to take an anger-management course and imposed “probation before judgment,” which means that if Rogero abides by the terms of his probation, the case will go away completely.
This outcome is hopefully for the best. Hopefully he learns in anger-management course that he shouldn't escalate things to the point of pulling a gun on a 15 year old. Especially when he isn't on duty.
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Old 01-23-16, 01:26 PM
  #4189  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by wearetheborg View Post
Dave, have you had bad experiences with cops?
One of my best friends is one of 6 deputy chiefs in the Washington State Patrol. I have an enormous amount of respect for good police. They are playing from behind in almost every situation. I personally know at last half of the city cops, the police chief and sheriff deputies in my area. When police actually live in a community and know the people in the community, I believe they actually serve that community rather than seeing it as a battlefield they have to go into. I think they diffuse situations rather than make them worse.

I think not enough attention is being given to what powers the police have been given over the years and what is considered acceptable now. I think we have slowly militarized the police and I think that makes things worse in both public perception and in the cops seeing everything as "us" versus "them." I believe that where we use to believe it is better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to jail, most police believe it's acceptable to have 50 innocent go to prison (or have their stuff stolen through civil seizure) so long as they get 50 bad guys as well. I think the fact that we live in an age where we have video of most of these altercations, and the fact that complaints against police have plummeted as a result of body and dash cameras is an indication that this type of stuff was far more common than anyone thinks, and that cops don't snitch on cops. Plenty of stories about that.
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Old 01-23-16, 01:32 PM
  #4190  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
During the trial, Rogero would testify that the teenager used vulgar terms to say he was about to attack.
This outcome is hopefully for the best. Hopefully he learns in anger-management course that he shouldn't escalate things to the point of pulling a gun on a 15 year old. Especially when he isn't on duty.
1. Was the escalation all up to him?
2. Did the 15 year old identify himself as a minor?
3. Rather than pulling a gun, should he have physically beaten the other person?
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Old 01-23-16, 01:34 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
One of my best friends is one of 6 deputy chiefs in the Washington State Patrol. I have an enormous amount of respect for good police. They are playing from behind in almost every situation. I personally know at last half of the city cops, the police chief and sheriff deputies in my area. When police actually live in a community and know the people in the community, I believe they actually serve that community rather than seeing it as a battlefield they have to go into. I think they diffuse situations rather than make them worse.

I think not enough attention is being given to what powers the police have been given over the years and what is considered acceptable now. I think we have slowly militarized the police and I think that makes things worse in both public perception and in the cops seeing everything as "us" versus "them." I believe that where we use to believe it is better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to jail, most police believe it's acceptable to have 50 innocent go to prison (or have their stuff stolen through civil seizure) so long as they get 50 bad guys as well. I think the fact that we live in an age where we have video of most of these altercations, and the fact that complaints against police have plummeted as a result of body and dash cameras is an indication that this type of stuff was far more common than anyone thinks, and that cops don't snitch on cops. Plenty of stories about that.
You didn't answer the question.
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Old 01-23-16, 02:12 PM
  #4192  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by wearetheborg View Post
1. Was the escalation all up to him?
2. Did the 15 year old identify himself as a minor?
3. Rather than pulling a gun, should he have physically beaten the other person?
1. This was begun with an off-duty FBI officer when he confronted a friend's baby daddy. This was not an issue without him. This was not his fight, so to speak. This was none of his business. Again, he was off-duty.
2. Why would he? This is an off-duty FBI guy. Who identifies themselves as a minor to some guy who just started a fight with your dad?
3. He should never have been involved in this to begin with. If there was some issue going on that needed the attention of law enforcement, he should have called local authorities and identified himself.
4. She shouldn't dress that way if she doesn't want to be raped.

Originally Posted by wearetheborg View Post
You didn't answer the question.
I've never had anything other than experiences that went quite cordially. I've donated to the local Pig Bowl for over a decade.
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Old 01-23-16, 02:18 PM
  #4193  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I bet you love Pulled BBQ Pork sandwiches. You sick bastard.
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Old 01-23-16, 02:31 PM
  #4194  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
1. This was begun with an off-duty FBI officer when he confronted a friend's baby daddy. This was not an issue without him. This was not his fight, so to speak. This was none of his business. Again, he was off-duty.
2. Why would he? This is an off-duty FBI guy. Who identifies themselves as a minor to some guy who just started a fight with your dad?
3. He should never have been involved in this to begin with. If there was some issue going on that needed the attention of law enforcement, he should have called local authorities and identified himself.
4. She shouldn't dress that way if she doesn't want to be raped.
1. The agents friend was involved. I don't know how close they were. It's not clear to me that "it was none of his business".

2. Exactly. The dude, as far as he knew, responded to an adult who was about to get physical. Your invocations of "a 15 year old boy" are thus invalid. This is exactly the same problem I have with the "cop shot a kid who was just pointing a toy at him!!!!" people.

3. Doesn't answer the question that was asked. Given that the opposing party indicated his intention to get violent, what would have been a proper response?
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Old 01-23-16, 03:49 PM
  #4195  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I bet you love Pulled BBQ Pork sandwiches. You sick bastard.
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Old 01-24-16, 08:11 AM
  #4196  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by wearetheborg View Post
1. The agents friend was involved. I don't know how close they were. It's not clear to me that "it was none of his business".

2. Exactly. The dude, as far as he knew, responded to an adult who was about to get physical. Your invocations of "a 15 year old boy" are thus invalid. This is exactly the same problem I have with the "cop shot a kid who was just pointing a toy at him!!!!" people.

3. Doesn't answer the question that was asked. Given that the opposing party indicated his intention to get violent, what would have been a proper response?
1. The agent was found guilty of assault. A 20+ year FBI vet was found GUILTY. You may not see how this was none of his business and you may not see the escalation, but the jury managed to. You and I may simply disagree with whether it was his business or not. But the jury decided that even if it was his business, he was guilty of assault. You know how CM always says it would be nice if we had all the evidence? Well, the jury did, and they found him guilty of assault. No one else was even arrested, much less charged with anything. He got a slap on the wrist because of his service. How can this be defended when in a group of people, the one guy that should be able to use their training to keep a potentially volatile situation from blowing up, is the only guy who was arrested, and despite being a cop, was found guilty because of his behavior while armed and off-duty. It's all there in the article.

2. You seem to keep treating this like a cop showed up in uniform to a domestic disturbance. He was not in uniform. He did not identify himself. He was aggressive to the kid's father. The kid had no way of even knowing this guy was a cop. He then assaulted (PROVED IN COURT) the kid, had his gun on him and "subconsciously" threatened to shoot him. At this point THEY DID NOT KNOW HE WAS A COP!!!!! As far as they would know, this was just one's of Mom's friends who suddenly went unhinged and pulled a gun on a 15 year old kid. PEOPLE CALLED 911 BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I agree that there are extenuating circumstances when a cop shoots a kid with a toy gun, but I feel like you must not understand the actual article because this kid had no way of knowing (nor did his dad) that the GUY WHO JUST PULLED A GUN ON HIM AND THREATENED TO SHOOT HIM DIDN'T IDENTIFY HIMSELF AS LAW ENFORCEMENT. Seriously, if you don't understand this, you and I won't get anywhere. This seems obviously open and shut to me (and the jury) and you are still looking for ways to defend a guy who started a problem, escalated the problem, had the cops called on him, and was found guilty.

3. He should have identified himself as law enforcement and contacted the local police. HE WAS AN OFF DUTY COUNTER TERRORISM FBI AGENT WHO DID NOT IDENTIFY HIMSELF. Given what he does, he may not even have sufficient or recent training on how to treat a domestic dispute (given that he created it), so what should he have done? What we would expect an ordinary citizen to do.

Given the article and the guilty verdict, I simply don't see how these things aren't obvious. If that doesn't clear it up for you, I don't think I have the ability to make it more clear. Sorry.
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Old 01-24-16, 10:27 AM
  #4197  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread



I have no problem with him being found guilty. The jury heads all the evidence and found him guilty. I also have no problem with him getting probation. The judge also heard all the evidence, no?

I'm not sure what result you expect for an altercation where nobody was hurt, with an offender who had no criminal history? People get put on deferred adjudication for misdemeanors constantly. That's the norm in my experience, not the exception.
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Old 01-24-16, 11:06 AM
  #4198  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by wearetheborg View Post
You know, I'd rather dudes going 100mph not be on the road.

I also have difficulty believing he didn't hear the siren, didn't see the lights, and was not aware he was being chased.
He didn't hear the siren, because it wasn't being used. It's not in that article, but in another one, the officer (or the recording, not sure) indicated only the lights were activated.
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Old 01-24-16, 11:19 AM
  #4199  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
He didn't hear the siren, because it wasn't being used. It's not in that article, but in another one, the officer (or the recording, not sure) indicated only the lights were activated.
I've read that as well, but I don't know how accurate it is. The motorcycle rider even used the sound of the siren as an excuse, so we know they were on at least by the time of the stop. See http://www.oregonherald.com/oregon/l...s.cfm?id=10261

Although Captain Edwards yelled to tell Wilkens to get down on the ground, between the helmet and the active siren, Wilkens said it took him a second or two to realize he needed to get on the ground
I find it hard to believe he didn't turn them on until the actual stop.

I'd very often not initally turn on my siren... they make a goddawful racket and screw with radio communication. But if the driver didn't yield to the lights alone, on go the sirens. For a multiple minute pursuit, they'd for sure be on.
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Old 01-24-16, 11:31 AM
  #4200  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I'll say, as someone with a fair amount of experience riding sport bikes (and some of that at speeds well outside the law and all common sense), that didn't look like someone running from the cops. When you are riding like a jackass, you are focused on what's in front of you, not behind you. You are in a bubble in that helmet, could he hear a siren from behind him with 100 mph of wind noise and engine noise? Don't know, but I know you don't hear or see much. I hated that about helmets, actually made me feel less safe.

That looked like a guy enjoying a fast ride on a nice curvy road.
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