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-   -   The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/597561-cops-behaving-badly-thread.html)

Dave99 11-11-15 03:39 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Not sure if this goes here or the NSA thread, but since it's local police/FBI/DEA people rather than NSA, I'll guess here.

Massive wiretapping might not be legal. One judge in riverside county california has singed 5 times more wiretap warrants than any other judge in the US (and more than every other state judge in california combined last year), which has led to federal agents tapping 44,000 people and more than 2 million phone calls. All were supposed to be in that county, hence the reason they went to a state judge instead of a federal circuit, but they were tapping people all over the country.

I'm sure those warrants were meticulously crafted by investigators to be extremely specific and vigorously inspected by the rubber stamp of a judge.

Federal prosecutors have been hesitant to accept the cases, because they don't believe the warrants will withstand scrutiny. So in the example in the article, one guy was found with $77k in cash, 36 pounds of meth and 5 pounds of heroin. He was arrested, but not charged. They did however keep the cash..so maybe that gives us ideas about the true point of the operation.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jus...F61?li=AAa0dzB

Dave99 11-11-15 03:51 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
And in prosecutors behaving badly, the government is going before the supreme court to say they should be allowed to seize all assets of a defendant, before trial, to make sure that if the person is found guilty, they will have money to pay the fine. This is assets not related to the suspected crime mind you, this is assets that even the government will concede were not at all related to the crime. Kind of makes it hard to live under a roof, eat or you know, mount a defense if you don't have a penny to your name.

Guilty pleas just make everything easier for everyone involved I guess. And it's not just a high dollar high profile fraud that this would apply to, they are fully aware of the reaching consequences:

JUSTICE KENNEDY: But what is it that confines your ** your rationale to a specific area? It seems to me that if the government prevails in this case, every State in the union, every locality could say that in the event of assault and battery, malicious mischief, an accident caused by drunk driving, any crime involving a bodily injury, that the government is entitled to restrain disposition of assets that might be used for medical care, for pain and suffering. And this would, in effect, prevent the private bar from ** from practicing law unless it did so on a contingent basis.

MR. DREEBEN: Justice Kennedy, it’s correct that our principle is not limited to the types of crimes that are in this case. It is limited to the government making an adequate showing that at the conclusion of the case, it will have the right to the money.
That's your government, looking to screw you over every way possible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...xth-amendment/

Lt Ripley 11-11-15 03:55 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Now that is the fucked up shit.

Draven 11-11-15 04:35 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Lt Ripley (Post 12642361)
One of the simplest laws to obey. Street crossings.

There may have been concern from the overall public about jaywalkers in this area. May have been an increased police presence to enforce these laws in this area due to people that think the word revolves around them. The police may have been serving the concerned citizens due to the potential dangers created by jaywalkers.

This is a problem that can only be solved by blows to the head.

Lt Ripley 11-11-15 04:38 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I know which group I would rather have living next to my grandmother.

wearetheborg 11-11-15 04:43 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12642464)
This is a problem that can only be solved by blows to the head.

Sometimes it's the most expedient way.

http://pa1.narvii.com/5802/436c45fe0...6d89f04_hq.gif

inri222 11-12-15 02:25 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Cop who shot drummer waiting for tow truck is now unemployed.

Palm Beach Gardens fires officer Nouman Raja after Corey Jones police shooting

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/pa...112-story.html

Dave99 11-12-15 04:10 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Deputy was getting an award from MADD for his DUI arrests shows up shitfaced at the ceremony..:lol:
https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...r-dui-arrests/

hanshotfirst1138 11-13-15 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara (Post 12638124)
They probably figure they can bust Tarantino for drugs and confiscate all his money under civil asset forfeiture laws because his films are clearly the product of intense cocaine use.

Yes, but if we're going to remove creative works on the basis of drugs being a part of their conception, then we're going to have to remove pretty much everything made in the 1960s for starters.

Red Dog 11-13-15 10:30 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Dave99 (Post 12642403)
And in prosecutors behaving badly, the government is going before the supreme court to say they should be allowed to seize all assets of a defendant, before trial, to make sure that if the person is found guilty, they will have money to pay the fine. This is assets not related to the suspected crime mind you, this is assets that even the government will concede were not at all related to the crime. Kind of makes it hard to live under a roof, eat or you know, mount a defense if you don't have a penny to your name.

Guilty pleas just make everything easier for everyone involved I guess. And it's not just a high dollar high profile fraud that this would apply to, they are fully aware of the reaching consequences:


That's your government, looking to screw you over every way possible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...xth-amendment/

A Prosecutors Behaving Badly spinoff thread would be great. They screw over far more people than cops ever will. And they have no fear of getting sued, unlike cops (which is basically the state). And they run on a "tough on crime" pile up the convictions platform.

The first reform that needs to be made is stopping asset forfeiture going to law enforcement. They should get nothing. The first step is to have such forfeitures (I'm not even going to go into the absurdity of that burden of proof here) go into a state general fund.

JCWBobC 11-15-15 07:08 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Just curious as to when it became comply or die in this country or it's it's always been that way and we're just finding out now because of so many people with cameras? I keep reading people's comments that if the person just did what the police officer said they would still be alive??? Before I took the police test back around 1990 I bought a bunch of training books and none of them talk about shooting first and asking questions questions later or that it's okay to punch people in the face while yelling "Stop resisting". So i'm really curious as to when this whole change took place with policing in America.

JimRochester 11-15-15 08:32 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
It has always been a requirement that someone must obey a lawful order from a law enforcement officer. If he tells you to get out of the road, you are required by law to do so. He doesn't have to prove you are about to be hit. He just has to be able to convey that he felt in the interest of public safety, you should not be walking in the road. If he tells you to go rob a bank, that is an illegal request and a person can rightfully refuse an order deemed illegal.

The answer to your question is both. In years past the public in general was much more respectful of law enforcement so there were far fewer incidents that escalated. In recent years you have the snowball effect of the cameras and discontent. As the cameras rolled and showed incidents sometimes misinterpreted, sometimes questionable, sometimes outright a violation a rights, it increased the unrest and disobedience. That resulted in more escalated encounters, resulting in more newsworthy events and so on.

The basis of what they say is true. If the event you see started with a legal order and the person disobeyed, that person is responsible for the escalation. If the person is complying but the officer still escalates the situation he (the LEO) is responsible for it. Non-compliance usually results in arrest which can turn violent.

As someone who volunteers for the town directing traffic, and also as an occupation sells to highway departments and DPW's who also direct traffic, and fire departments who also direct, anyone who has done it can tell you stories of the people who come up and just start swearing at you because you are redirecting traffic. They try to go around, they'll throw the car in park and refuse to move. One guy started to get out of the car as though he wanted to fight. Dude, I'm so sorry it inconveniences you that some guy is wrapped around a tree and they are trying to get him out before the car catches fire.

A guy is walking down the middle of the street and cars are going around him. It looks like he's going to cause an accident, you tell him to get out of the road. He tells you to f' off, you can't tell me what to do. You have two choices, you can ignore the situation or force the situation.

wearetheborg 11-15-15 09:47 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by JimRochester (Post 12645353)
It has always been a requirement that someone must obey a lawful order from a law enforcement officer. If he tells you to get out of the road, you are required by law to do so. He doesn't have to prove you are about to be hit. He just has to be able to convey that he felt in the interest of public safety, you should not be walking in the road. If he tells you to go rob a bank, that is an illegal request and a person can rightfully refuse an order deemed illegal.

The answer to your question is both. In years past the public in general was much more respectful of law enforcement so there were far fewer incidents that escalated. In recent years you have the snowball effect of the cameras and discontent. As the cameras rolled and showed incidents sometimes misinterpreted, sometimes questionable, sometimes outright a violation a rights, it increased the unrest and disobedience. That resulted in more escalated encounters, resulting in more newsworthy events and so on.

The basis of what they say is true. If the event you see started with a legal order and the person disobeyed, that person is responsible for the escalation. If the person is complying but the officer still escalates the situation he (the LEO) is responsible for it. Non-compliance usually results in arrest which can turn violent.

As someone who volunteers for the town directing traffic, and also as an occupation sells to highway departments and DPW's who also direct traffic, and fire departments who also direct, anyone who has done it can tell you stories of the people who come up and just start swearing at you because you are redirecting traffic. They try to go around, they'll throw the car in park and refuse to move. One guy started to get out of the car as though he wanted to fight. Dude, I'm so sorry it inconveniences you that some guy is wrapped around a tree and they are trying to get him out before the car catches fire.

A guy is walking down the middle of the street and cars are going around him. It looks like he's going to cause an accident, you tell him to get out of the road. He tells you to f' off, you can't tell me what to do. You have two choices, you can ignore the situation or force the situation.

:thumbsup:


Originally Posted by JCWBobC (Post 12645336)
So i'm really curious as to when this whole change took place with policing in America.

And the reason why cop-public encounters seem to be a big deal only in America is that it is common sense in other countries to obey what law enforcement says.

Dave99 11-15-15 11:25 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by wearetheborg (Post 12645369)
And the reason why cop-public encounters seem to be a big deal only in America is that it is common sense in other countries to obey what law enforcement says.

I guess we haven't been assimilated yet?

I'd imagine the police use their firearms here at a much higher rate than any other first world country. Granted many places don't even have many armed police officers, so shootings are rare. In the UK though, once police started getting their hands on tasers, they really enjoyed using them, as can be seen below:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/p...oting-someone/

DVD Polizei 11-15-15 01:35 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by JCWBobC (Post 12645336)
Just curious as to when it became comply or die in this country or it's it's always been that way and we're just finding out now because of so many people with cameras? I keep reading people's comments that if the person just did what the police officer said they would still be alive??? Before I took the police test back around 1990 I bought a bunch of training books and none of them talk about shooting first and asking questions questions later or that it's okay to punch people in the face while yelling "Stop resisting". So i'm really curious as to when this whole change took place with policing in America.

I'm curious as to when it became a right of a person to question everything a police officer does. :lol:

Like a patient going into surgery and saying, "Ok, wait a minute, doc. You can't do that." The doctor would reply, "Uhh, I'm a doctor. Shut your fat ass up, thanks and let me do my job."

People kill police officers without hesitation because they've been brought up to be assholes and to not respect authority. I mean, it's not just cops who get rude and shitty behavior. Just shop at your local grocery store or for kicks, shop during the holidays.

If you want to know the real reason for violence in this country, look at the parenting...or the lack of. Coincidentally, the bad parenting is found in communities with little education and get their learning from biased news sources running 24/7 (much different than even a few decades ago) and their own biased parents who would rather have somebody else parent their kids.

Look at who is doing the complaining. Then fact check how many times those complaints are valid with those complaints which aren't. You start with a small number of complaints against police already, and when you filter out the complaints that are unjustified, it's even smaller.

Now, compare those stats with how many people obey the request of an LE officer walk away with a ticket or even just a warning. Oh yeah, we don't have those stats. Wonder why.

Lt Ripley 11-15-15 01:44 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12645536)
Like a patient going into surgery and saying, "Ok, wait a minute, doc. You can't do that." The doctor would reply, "Uhh, I'm a doctor. Shut your fat ass up, thanks and let me do my job."


Ummmmm. Not true.

DVD Polizei 11-15-15 02:03 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
So, you know all the laws and everything about a situation, and cops don't.

But, that's true?

Ok.

Suppose you and I both get stopped at the same time for speeding.

Well, on a nice sunny day, I'm the guy waving to you with a nice'n'brite smile as I drive by...observing you being spread eagle on the ground and having a knee stuck up your butt because you've decided to tell a cop they don't know anything and that they don't have a right to put you on the ground.

But hey, keep on telling yourselves this, people. Keep up the cause alive! :banana:

Lt Ripley 11-15-15 02:05 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I'm telling you that a patient can refuse almost any treatment. There are very few cases in which something can be medically forced on them.

You used a bad analogy. I am not talking about police. I am on the side of don't be a willful retard towards cops.

DVD Polizei 11-15-15 02:07 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I'm talking about professional knowledge.

If you're going to have a heart transplant, are you going to refuse because the doctor doesn't know what they're doing?

It's a simple question. Most people don't refuse. They know they are in the hands of a professional. But for some reason, when a cop tells a person to do something, the cop is discounted. Why is that.

Sure, there are rogue doctors, and sure, you may be harmed from those rare doctors. But they are far and few between.

Right? Or are bad doctors the normal thing?

Lt Ripley 11-15-15 02:11 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
You've never worked in a hospital have you?

wearetheborg 11-15-15 02:22 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12645557)
I'm talking about professional knowledge.

If you're going to have a heart transplant, are you going to refuse because the doctor doesn't know what they're doing?

It's a simple question. Most people don't refuse. They know they are in the hands of a professional. But for some reason, when a cop tells a person to do something, the cop is discounted. Why is that.

A bad analogy. A patient has the right to refuse treatment. No reason required.

There is no right to not obey the police, except perhaps in exceptional circumstances (like if a cop is telling you to harm someone else).

DVD Polizei 11-15-15 02:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I'm talking about professionalism and respect of that professional.

Are we to conclude most patients refuse their doctor's advice and future surgical procedures?

I suppose most people would be better off treating themselves because they know so much about drug interactions, anatomy, and everything else. People are so smart! I can already see doctors just handing over their instruments to their patients during a heart procedure saying, "Hey buddy. Here yah go! We'll even let you spread your chest cavity open, because you're so smart! You're awesome! Of course, we recommend you be sedated when you spread your own chest cavity...(cricket sounds)...but you already know that. Why? Because you're smart!"

Lt Ripley 11-15-15 02:56 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 12645592)
"Ok, wait a minute, doc. You can't do that." The doctor would reply, "Uhh, I'm a doctor. Shut your fat ass up, thanks and let me do my job."

http://i67.tinypic.com/5d2o2a.gif

JCWBobC 11-15-15 03:03 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I wasn't saying we should question everything the police do because my father was a police officer and, like I said I took the police test, so I have a lot of respect for police and the work they do. That doesn't mean that I can't question when a video comes out showing police doing something that I don't think is right. Now my not thinking it's right is just my opinion while the officer is doing it based on the law and his training so I get that that while I or other people might have the same opinion we are not the ones in the situation or trained to deal with a situation in a certain way. But again that doesn't mean we don't have a right to our opinion based on different factors: how we were brought up, what we think is or isn't respectful behavior, etc...

My point was that I don't remember it ever being like this growing up and wondered when it changed.

Also I work in a supermarket & at Toys R Us and for the most part people are nice and respectful. You get back what you put out to people so if you are friendly & respectful that is mostly what you get, at least that's what I have found to be true, but their will always be rude people no matter how nice you are to them.

spainlinx0 11-15-15 03:36 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
You picked a pretty bad example because it is considered good advice to always get a second opinion before undergoing surgical procedures.


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