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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 07-31-15, 04:25 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by printerati View Post
My mistake. Clearly, those two incidents should be enough to draw the "They often have lots of choices and still choose to gun someone down, especially if they are black." conclusion.
what the heck were you expecting by saying "source"? Or were you just going for snark?
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Old 07-31-15, 04:30 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
what the heck were you expecting by saying "source"? Or were you just going for snark?
As CaptainMarvel already alluded to, the numbers simply don't support "especially if they are black" regarding fatal police shootings.
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Old 07-31-15, 04:41 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

The police union, attempting to win the hearts & minds of the people, demanding this cops job be restored as he was fired without due process..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-job/30954209/

Of course, I'm not sure they can have a pre-termination meeting with the officer when he is in jail.
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Old 07-31-15, 04:46 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

St. Louis County Biased Against Black Juveniles, Justice Department Finds

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Old 07-31-15, 04:49 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
It is simply a nonsense claim to even imply that "resisting arrest automatically means a death sentence," or anywhere close to it.

I think DVD Polizei's point was this (and he can certainly clarify if I'm wrong):

Resisting arrest will almost always (properly) result in force used against you. Sometimes even non-deadly force like a taser can result in death or serious injury. Sometimes the officer will be justified in deadly force. Sometimes you may not mean to do anything more than act out, but a officer might reasonably mistake your resistance to signify a serious threat. And yes, sometimes officers will fuck up. At a minimum, if you resist you're probably buying a ride to jail, force used against you, and more serious charges than you'd have faced otherwise. Worst case is you end up dead. With all that said, just as a purely practical matter, why the hell would you be non-compliant? What do you hope to gain, and how could that possibly outweigh the risk (whether legitimate or illegitimate)?

And that, frankly, goes even moreso if you have a jaundiced view of the police. We've heard Obama and other notable African-American pundits speak about "the talk" and how they feel they have to give their kids a speech about how dangerous the police are. If the black community at large truly believes police are such wild dogs, why do we keep seeing members of the black community expose themselves to greater risk by transforming what could be a non-force incident into one where some degree of force has to be used to subdue them? In nearly every one of the "unarmed black male" major cases we've seen recently (Brown, Gray, DuBose, Scott, et al), we hear about their race. But the other common factor is they all, by fleeing or fighting, guaranteed that some measure of force would have to be used against them. It's such an illogical reaction.

There is a deep seated Fear of Cops in the Black Community. I dare say it's in our DNA But seriously, it comes from the fact that historically, American Cops were in many cases nothing more that the Gov Sponsored Muscle/Overseers of White Supremacy, Minority Oppression, etc. backed by the American Legal System.

Also, we know there are ways Cops can inflict pain on perps even after submission that causes natural human physical reactions like moving away, jerking suddenly etc. Then the Cops just add any of these reactions to the resisting arrest list...or kill you.
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Old 07-31-15, 04:49 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Yeah see, Blacks aren't allowed to be afraid or feel pain and react when it comes to cop encounters. We must be submissives.
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Old 07-31-15, 04:51 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by printerati View Post
As CaptainMarvel already alluded to, the numbers simply don't support "especially if they are black" regarding fatal police shootings.
source? Not raw/gross numbers, mind you, but relative to their population size? Because what he posted a link to (I assume that this was your reference) shows that it's 280-140, 2 to 1. Whereas according to census data whites (not Hispanic or Latino) represent 62.6% of the population, and blacks represent 13.2%. Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

So I would say the numbers do support that statement, at least at the very raw level. Whites outnumber blacks almost 5 to 1, yet in shooting deaths at the hands of the police only get killed at a rate of 2 to 1. So yes, the raw numbers suggest that you are more likely to be shot by police if you are black than if you are white, as near as I can see.
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Old 07-31-15, 05:31 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

http://www.newnownext.com/gay-man-pu..._facebook_logo
Gay Man Pulled From Home, Beaten By NYPD Officers Yelling “Faggot” In Horrifying Video

A gay Staten Island man is suing the NYPD after four officers dragged him from his home last month before violently beating him in the front yard while repeatedly yelling homophobic slurs.

Louis Falcone, 31, told the New York Daily News that officers arrived at the home he shares with his 66-year-old mother on June 19 to investigate a noise complaint. He had been arguing loudly with his brother an hour earlier, who had come home in an “obnoxiously drunk” stupor and left before police arrived to investigate the noise.

“As I’m talking to them through the screen door, they’re saying to come outside,” said Falcone. “I said, ‘For what?'”

Falcone added that his dog began barking from inside the house, to which an officer said, “Get your dog out of here or I”ll fucking kill it!”

Falcone also had surgery on his foot recently and was wearing a boot, but that didn’t stop the four aggressive officers from purposefully stepping on it after pulling him from his home illegally for a violent, unprovoked beating on the front lawn.

Falcone’s version of events was confirmed by a video obtained by the Daily News, which was shot from a neighbor’s window across the street. In it, Falcone is heard screaming for mercy while the officers mercilessly pile on top of him.

“They threw me against the concrete in front of my house. My first reaction was to try to get up a little bit,” Falcone explained. “While I was on the ground, I had mud and blood in my mouth. One [of the cops] said, ‘Don’t let it get on you, he probably has AIDS, the faggot.’”

Falcone begged the officers to be careful with his foot during the beating, a request they took as an invitation. “They’re hitting me for no reason. One puts his knee on my neck. They were all piling on top of me,” he recalled. “I said, ‘Please, I just had surgery on my foot. One of the cops stepped on my foot. Another cop comes and steps on my head.”

Falcone is suing the NYPD for violating his civil rights, not to mention the injuries he suffered.

According to Falcone, the attack left him with “a broken nose, two black eyes, cuts to his face and body, and…more foot surgery.”

“How can you do that – four people on one skinny, scrawny little guy?” Falcone’s attorney, Eric Subin asked. “They’re criminals; they belong behind bars.”
Video can be seen here. http://video.nydailynews.com/Gay-Sta...on=nydailynews

Protect and serve.
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Old 07-31-15, 05:36 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...ill-dog/nm9Yt/

Woman facing charges after police shoot, kill dog

CLAYTON COUNTY, Ga. —

A local woman said she's still facing charges after a Clayton County police officer shot and killed her dog.

"He just shot the dog and stood there with no remorse, no regrets in front of her and her kids," neighbor Aijohli King told Channel 2's Amy Napier Viteri after she witnessed the shooting from her home across the street.

Claudette Terry told Viteri she was moving into a home on Pineglen Drive in May when officers stopped by to check on a man sitting in her driveway, a man Terry said was a friend.

"My son opened the door the dog ran out and kind of stood by me where the other officers were," she said. "He didn't bark, growl or anything."

Terry explained she was already speaking to two other officers when a third officer, Walter Dennard, walked up. In his incident report, Dennard said the family's 5-month-old lab-pit mix ran and lunged at him.

Witness Brandon Smarr said that's not true.

"He just took a step back and he just shot at the dog," Smarr said. "And then he started laughing afterward."


"The dog was shaking on the ground," Terry said. "And he walked up to the dog and shot it a second time. He walked closer and shot it a second time."

Terry said at first she wondered if anyone else was hit by the bullets.

"When the gun went off, my son went down in the yard crying. I looked thinking my son may have been shot," she said.

The puppy named 8-Ball was friendly, according to friends, and well-loved, especially by Terry's daughter.

Officer Dennard's file showed several use of force complaints, including a suspension for Tasing a suspect in the neck. But Terry is the one facing charges for not having her dog on a leash or showing rabies paperwork.

A Clayton County police spokesperson said the Office of Professional Standards is conducting an internal investigation and they cannot comment in the meantime.
Well, maybe since it is a puppy instead of a black guy, people will give a shit. Why couldn't it have been a lion?
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Old 07-31-15, 06:06 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
source? Not raw/gross numbers, mind you, but relative to their population size? Because what he posted a link to shows that it's 280-140, 2 to 1. Whereas according to census data whites (not Hispanic or Latino) represent 62.6% of the population, and blacks represent 13.2%. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphi...ice-shootings/

So I would say the numbers do support that statement, at least at the very raw level. Whites outnumber blacks almost 5 to 1, yet in shooting deaths at the hands of the police only get killed at a rate of 2 to 1. So yes, the raw numbers suggest that you are more likely to be shot by police if you are black than if you are white, as near as I can see.
You're comparing the shooting numbers to the gross US population? We're talking about police criminal interactions, so that comparison would only make sense if races committed offenses in proportion to their overall population size. They don't. If Eskimos are <1% of the US population, but if they committed 99% of all crime in this country, I would expect them to correspondingly make up a disproportionately large number of police shooting deaths, not <1%... they're going to come in contact with police more often, if nothing else.

So let's look at criminals. According to the WaPo, 564 people have been shot by police so far this year. Of those:

140 were black, so: 24.8%
280 were white, so: 49.6%*
368 were white/hispanic, so: 65.2%*

(*They break out "Hispanic" into a separate "race", which the UCR doesn't do. Most Hispanics will typically be "white" under UCR reporting. Hispanics made up an additional 88 killed, which is an additional 15.6%. So that would be 65.2% white/hispanic, for comparison to UCR numbers. It doesn't matter either way for comparison of black crime rates to black shooting deaths, but I'm just including it for comparison.)

Per 2012 UCR arrests:
68.3% were white (including hispanics)
28.1% were black

So the percentage of those killed by police who are black (24.8%) is almost exactly proportionate (and actually slightly less) than the percentage of people arrested who are black (28.1%). Likewise for whites/Hispanics (65.2% killed to 68.3% arrestes).

But... to be fair, there are two problems with using total arrests:

1) Not all arrests are necessarily equal. If Eskimos and Pacific Islanders committed 100% of the crime, but Eskimos committed all of the violent crimes, while Pacific Islanders committed all of the property crimes, you would tend to expect violence to be more necessary to arrest the Eskimos, no?

2) One of the complaints about UCR data is that it involves arrests. So in a system that's biased, arrests could just manifest that bias.

We can always mitigate that by looking at just the murder numbers. Murder is usually considered the most accurate of the UCR stats for several reasons (it's not a "discretionary" offense like disorderly conduct, it usually has the most investigative and forensic resources thrown at it, those arrests are given the most scrutiny, etc).

For murder, the stats are roughly equal:
48.2% white
49.4% black

So blacks commit roughly half of the most serious violent crime.

(The numbers vary for the other violent crimes. Blacks commit more robberies than whites. White commit more rapes and serious assaults than blacks. But even at the black violent crime rate's lowest ebb -forcible rape- they still make up roughly 1/3 of the arrests, far outstripping the 13% of the population they comprise)

So you've got a population that commits 28% of the total crime, at least 33% of the violent crime, and nearly 50% of all murders. So far this year, they've made up ~25% of the people killed by police. That doesn't seem extraordinary or unusual to me.

Last edited by CaptainMarvel; 07-31-15 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 07-31-15, 06:18 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post

Well, maybe since it is a puppy instead of a black guy, people will give a shit. Why couldn't it have been a lion?
Or a rabid but innocent fetus.
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Old 07-31-15, 07:12 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...ill-dog/nm9Yt/

Well, maybe since it is a puppy instead of a black guy, people will give a shit. Why couldn't it have been a lion?
You know what really strikes me about all of this?

If these police killings we're seeing (from the Garner video in NYC, to the cop planting the taser, to the Cincy incident) were coming from Cuba or China or the old Soviet Union people would be horrified.

But when it's happening in 'Murca, it seems like the majority of the people either shrug their shoulders or jump to the defense of the cops.
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Old 07-31-15, 07:15 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
You know what really strikes me about all of this?

If these police killings we're seeing (from the Garner video in NYC, to the cop planting the taser, to the Cincy incident) were coming from Cuba or China or the old Soviet Union people would be horrified.

But when it's happening in 'Murca, it seems like the majority of the people either shrug their shoulders or jump to the defense of the cops.
People won't care until they start seeing it happen to upper-middle class white folks, but by then it'll be too late to realize how close to a police state we really are.
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Old 07-31-15, 07:26 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
People won't care until they start seeing it happen to upper-middle class white folks, but by then it'll be too late to realize how close to a police state we really are.
We have police officers getting arrested for doing their job (e.g. several of the officers in Baltimore), and crucified publicly based on allegations (e.g., Wilson) when they've done nothing wrong. Some "police state."
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Old 07-31-15, 07:34 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
We have police officers getting arrested for doing their job (e.g. several of the officers in Baltimore), and crucified publicly based on allegations (e.g., Wilson) when they've done nothing wrong. Some "police state."
those are isolated incidents
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Old 07-31-15, 07:42 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
those are isolated incidents
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Old 07-31-15, 10:09 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
For murder, the stats are roughly equal:
48.2% white
49.4% black

So blacks commit roughly half of the most serious violent crime.

(The numbers vary for the other violent crimes. Blacks commit more robberies than whites. White commit more rapes and serious assaults than blacks. But even at the black violent crime rate's lowest ebb -forcible rape- they still make up roughly 1/3 of the arrests, far outstripping the 13% of the population they comprise)

So you've got a population that commits 28% of the total crime, at least 33% of the violent crime, and nearly 50% of all murders. So far this year, they've made up ~25% of the people killed by police. That doesn't seem extraordinary or unusual to me.
It does to me, sounds like they should be getting shot by police at a much higher rate!
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Old 07-31-15, 10:23 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
It does to me, sounds like they should be getting shot by police at a much higher rate!
Well, that makes about as much sense as your first stab at it, I guess.
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Old 08-01-15, 01:40 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
We have police officers getting arrested for doing their job (e.g. several of the officers in Baltimore), and crucified publicly based on allegations (e.g., Wilson) when they've done nothing wrong. Some "police state."
Is it their job to drive recklessly so they can injure their suspect without getting in trouble for it? That minority of bad cops has been abusing their power for so long, and they would continue to get the benefit of the doubt if every civilian didn't have a camera on their cell phone. Unfortunately some good cops are getting caught up in the collateral damage, which is why it's important for them to start speaking out against the bad cops and stop protecting them.
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Old 08-01-15, 08:12 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Is it their job to drive recklessly so they can injure their suspect without getting in trouble for it?
Try to keep up. The charges against the driver aren't the issue.
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Old 08-01-15, 10:36 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...ill-dog/nm9Yt/



Well, maybe since it is a puppy instead of a black guy, people will give a shit. Why couldn't it have been a lion?
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Old 08-01-15, 11:24 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Lenexa police explain arrest video that goes viral on Facebook

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FC_Wn3Foovs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 08-01-15, 04:02 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by TheBigDave View Post
Lenexa police explain arrest video that goes viral on Facebook

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FC_Wn3Foovs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He was resisting arrest there. Cops were right on this one.
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Old 08-01-15, 04:06 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Try to keep up. The charges against the driver aren't the issue.
No need to be insulting.
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Old 08-01-15, 04:59 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
No need to be insulting.
I'm sorry, was "Is it their job to drive recklessly so they can injure their suspect without getting in trouble for it?" an earnest question? Because it seemed like a flippant bit of rhetoric to me.

You acknowledge that even good officers are getting caught up as "collateral damage" out of one side of your mouth, while blathering about how "close to we are to a police state" out of the other. I'm not quite sure how you handle the cognitive dissonance.

We just got done with riots where not only were police not allowed to even engage, but while officers were getting pelted with chunks of concrete the command staff was more concerned about keeping officers from wearing sunglasses, because they look intimidating. Every "police state" nut out there is just fucking disconnected from reality.
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