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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 07-30-15, 09:02 AM
  #2876  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

It appears he was dragged for some distance. Compare the location of the car during the initial stop to where the officer gets up and starts running.
Watched it again step by step, he was dragged after firing the shot, timing is everything.

Last edited by covenant; 07-30-15 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 07-30-15, 09:22 AM
  #2877  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Samuel DuBose video appears to show two officers reinforced false account of police killing

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sam...id=mailsignout
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Old 07-30-15, 09:37 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Samuel DuBose video appears to show two officers reinforced false account of police killing

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sam...id=mailsignout
I guess everyone forgot they were wearing cameras.
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Old 07-30-15, 09:37 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
(While I think a trial makes sense, and while I don't expect a prosecutor to be neutral... that's not his job... I will say that the prosecutor's grand-standing comments were disgusting. I wonder what office he's planning to run for next?)
Absolutely agree. It feels like an "it's just a university cop, so I can throw him under the bus and hopefully help keep people from rioting," situation. Someone else can do that, like the mayor, not the DA.
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Old 07-30-15, 09:44 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sam...id=mailsignout

Samuel DuBose video appears to show two officers reinforced false account of police killing

I'm going to give a pass on the other officers. Memory is a tricky and sometimes fucked up thing. The mind tries to recreate what happened when something truly surprising shocking occurs, and seeing someone dragged a bit just after a shot (which obviously gets your attention) can make the memory seem simultaneous, etc. But that is part of why cameras are so important.

Looks to me like the officer should have called it an accidental discharge of some kind. I don't think that would have been the truth, though. "Should" as in "what would have covered his butt the best," not in that he truly should have.
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Old 07-30-15, 09:54 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Samuel DuBose video appears to show two officers reinforced false account of police killing

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sam...id=mailsignout
Oh FFS.

One officer (Kidd) said he saw Tensing dragged.

The other officer (Weibel)... the one who filed the report... was not on scene at the time of the shooting. He reported what Kidd had said told him, and made his own observation about the back of Tensing's clothes:
“Looking at Officer Tensing’s uniform, I could see that the back of his pants and shirt looked as if it had been dragged over a rough surface.”
Considering it's patently apparent even from the video that Tensing took a tumble onto the roadway, that seems like Weibel's observation of the clothes would be a reasonable one here no matter who's story was accurate.

Here's a LINK to Weibel's report for anybody who wants to read it.
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Old 07-30-15, 09:59 AM
  #2882  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

From this article:

It is a second body cam video, from University of Cincinnati Officer Phillip Kidd, that shows Tensing momentarily on the ground beside DuBose's car as DuBose drives away. Kidd's body cam captures the moment as he runs toward the scene.
Has that video been released? I would like to actually see what it looked like from Kidd's perspective, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
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Old 07-30-15, 10:03 AM
  #2883  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
From this article:



Has that video been released? I would like to actually see what it looked like from Kidd's perspective, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
They played it on CBS This Morning today.
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Old 07-30-15, 10:06 AM
  #2884  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
They played it on CBS This Morning today.
Kidd's?

Here's a second video (which Tensing's defense attorney released yesterday), but not the one worn by Kidd referenced above (I think this was from the officer in training - Lindenschmidt - mentioned in the report):

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Old 07-30-15, 10:10 AM
  #2885  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Why is a person who is under a police officer's legal control, who then resists and makes an unpredictable action...results in a request by some people (and groups and high-ranking political offices) for a police officer to respond out of some vacuum fluffy bunny world.

Since nobody can say 100% for sure how cop is going to respond to an incident of resisting and flight (or flight), why do we continually see videos of people doing the dumbest things. Have they not seen enough of these types of videos to take a FUCKING CLUE.

And yes, I expect somebody to deflect and say, "Well, the cop should've!!!1111" That's not the issue. Let's concentrate on the actions of the person in the car for a moment.

If the guy would have just gotten out of the car as requested, he would be alive today to sue for any potential unauthorized force by the police officer. What. The. Fuck. Don't people understand. This message applies to anyone getting pulled over or being requested by an authority figure to do something.

Do as requested by LE. You'll live to be an idiot another day.

I guess the rest of population who actually do what a cop tells us, are obviously doing something wrong, and should be ashamed.

Officials like Joseph T. Deters, do not help the situation. I can't believe the comments prosecutors are releasing out of their mouths these days. I would expect comments like this to come from Defense attorneys. But coming from a prosecutor is just unethical as a person who is supposed to go over facts and not knee-jerk react the way they feel they will get them more voting base support.

But I guess we're past the point of any ethics and Jurisprudence these days. It's all being judged by the highly reliable social media and its balanced collection of evidence for every incident.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 07-30-15 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 07-30-15, 10:25 AM
  #2886  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Since nobody can say 100% for sure how cop is going to respond to an incident of resisting and flight (or flight), why do we continually see videos of people doing the dumbest things. Have they not seen enough of these types of videos to take a FUCKING CLUE.

And yes, I expect somebody to deflect and say, "Well, the cop should've!!!1111" That's not the issue. Let's concentrate on the actions of the person in the car for a moment.
Pedestrians aren't trained for dealing with cops, but cops are trained for dealing with pedestrians.

I work in the financial securities industry, and I have learned from the mistakes that my counterparts across the country have made. Every continuing education course has a line in it that says "Whatever you say or type - be ready for it to be printed in a newspaper".

That's how some cops should view their trade and their actions. Yes, a lot of these pedestrians are idiots, and should have done a simple task to end the issue. But the police officers are the highly-trained individuals in the situation, and they let one bad encounter define their careers.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:07 AM
  #2887  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Neil M. View Post
You can see his right hand go for the keys in the ignition and he turns the car on. That's the point when the cop knows he's going to flee the scene. There's no justification for the shooting at all although I expect him to say that he feared getting run over by the car. Is that going to be enough reasonable doubt for a jury? We'll see.
I saw his hand go toward the keys, but after turning the audio way up on my computer I just noticed the sound of the car starting for the first time. Until then, I thought he was attacked simply for reaching for the keys.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:21 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Why is a person who is under a police officer's legal control, who then resists and makes an unpredictable action...results in a request by some people (and groups and high-ranking political offices) for a police officer to respond out of some vacuum fluffy bunny world.

Since nobody can say 100% for sure how cop is going to respond to an incident of resisting and flight (or flight), why do we continually see videos of people doing the dumbest things. Have they not seen enough of these types of videos to take a FUCKING CLUE.

And yes, I expect somebody to deflect and say, "Well, the cop should've!!!1111" That's not the issue. Let's concentrate on the actions of the person in the car for a moment.

If the guy would have just gotten out of the car as requested, he would be alive today to sue for any potential unauthorized force by the police officer. What. The. Fuck. Don't people understand. This message applies to anyone getting pulled over or being requested by an authority figure to do something.

Do as requested by LE. You'll live to be an idiot another day.

......
Let me make sure I understand you, you are saying that once a person doesn't obey the orders of a police officer it's ok for the police officer to shoot that person?
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Old 07-30-15, 11:40 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DirkUSA View Post
Let me make sure I understand you, you are saying that once a person doesn't obey the orders of a police officer it's ok for the police officer to shoot that person?
I don't think that's what he said at all.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:48 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Why is a person who is under a police officer's legal control, who then resists and makes an unpredictable action...results in a request by some people (and groups and high-ranking political offices) for a police officer to respond out of some vacuum fluffy bunny world.

Since nobody can say 100% for sure how cop is going to respond to an incident of resisting and flight (or flight), why do we continually see videos of people doing the dumbest things. Have they not seen enough of these types of videos to take a FUCKING CLUE.

And yes, I expect somebody to deflect and say, "Well, the cop should've!!!1111" That's not the issue. Let's concentrate on the actions of the person in the car for a moment.

If the guy would have just gotten out of the car as requested, he would be alive today to sue for any potential unauthorized force by the police officer. What. The. Fuck. Don't people understand. This message applies to anyone getting pulled over or being requested by an authority figure to do something.

Do as requested by LE. You'll live to be an idiot another day.

I guess the rest of population who actually do what a cop tells us, are obviously doing something wrong, and should be ashamed.

Officials like Joseph T. Deters, do not help the situation. I can't believe the comments prosecutors are releasing out of their mouths these days. I would expect comments like this to come from Defense attorneys. But coming from a prosecutor is just unethical as a person who is supposed to go over facts and not knee-jerk react the way they feel they will get them more voting base support.

But I guess we're past the point of any ethics and Jurisprudence these days. It's all being judged by the highly reliable social media and its balanced collection of evidence for every incident.
Do you seriously think that society would be better off if we all resolved to viewing law enforcement officers as toddlers with guns?

Just do what the officer says otherwise it'll get upset and shoot you.

That's ridiculous. Law enforcement officers are granted an incredible amount of power by society. They are empowered with weapons and with the legal ability to completely disrupt people's lives in the name of protecting society. The onus should remain on law enforcement to be properly trained to interact with society given this incredible power imbalance.

It's not about expecting law enforcement officers to react in ways that put them in harm. But, it's about training them to keep them safe in ALL situations and not just training them for the ideal situation. It's training an officer like the one in Ohio, that if you suspect a stopped driver from pulling off and driving away to step back to ensure your safety and not open fire or even draw your gun in that situation. They need to be better trained or have their guns taken away.

And this whole "cops are heroes" counternarrative is counterproductive. They're people. Some of whom suck at their job, but are protected by strong unions and idiotic political/societal fanboyism. And the same goes for the other side, the people who stupidly like to pretend all law enforcement officers are evil or part of a massive racist conspiracy.

Last edited by BambooLounge; 07-30-15 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 07-30-15, 11:55 AM
  #2891  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Why is a person who is under a police officer's legal control, who then resists and makes an unpredictable action...results in a request by some people (and groups and high-ranking political offices) for a police officer to respond out of some vacuum fluffy bunny world.

Since nobody can say 100% for sure how cop is going to respond to an incident of resisting and flight (or flight), why do we continually see videos of people doing the dumbest things. Have they not seen enough of these types of videos to take a FUCKING CLUE.

And yes, I expect somebody to deflect and say, "Well, the cop should've!!!1111" That's not the issue. Let's concentrate on the actions of the person in the car for a moment.

If the guy would have just gotten out of the car as requested, he would be alive today to sue for any potential unauthorized force by the police officer. What. The. Fuck. Don't people understand. This message applies to anyone getting pulled over or being requested by an authority figure to do something.

Do as requested by LE. You'll live to be an idiot another day.

I guess the rest of population who actually do what a cop tells us, are obviously doing something wrong, and should be ashamed.

Officials like Joseph T. Deters, do not help the situation. I can't believe the comments prosecutors are releasing out of their mouths these days. I would expect comments like this to come from Defense attorneys. But coming from a prosecutor is just unethical as a person who is supposed to go over facts and not knee-jerk react the way they feel they will get them more voting base support.

But I guess we're past the point of any ethics and Jurisprudence these days. It's all being judged by the highly reliable social media and its balanced collection of evidence for every incident.
Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
I don't think that's what he said at all.
Mmmhhhhhhhh. Sure?
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Old 07-30-15, 12:13 PM
  #2892  
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by BambooLounge View Post
Do you seriously think that society would be better off if we all resolved to viewing law enforcement officers as toddlers with guns?

Just do what the officer says otherwise it'll get upset and shoot you.

That's ridiculous. Law enforcement officers are granted an incredible amount of power by society. They are empowered with weapons and with the legal ability to completely disrupt people's lives in the name of protecting society. The onus should remain on law enforcement to be properly trained to interact with society given this incredible power imbalance.
And sometimes when somebody breaks the law and then resists lawful authority, some of that "interact[ion] with society" will appropriately involve the use of force, and that's where things will get messy. Because use of force isn't like TV where a simple judo chop renders the person nice and unconscious.

Originally Posted by DirkUSA
Mmmhhhhhhhh. Sure?
If you think this sentence:

Originally Posted by DVD P.
Do as requested by LE. You'll live to be an idiot another day.
means this:

Originally Posted by you
once a person doesn't obey the orders of a police officer it's ok for the police officer to shoot that person?
then you ought to ask for a refund on wherever you paid tuition, because they failed you. I don't think he said it's "ok" for an officer to shoot somebody for disobeying orders. He's saying all this is avoidable. Nearly all of the high profile incidents we've seen (Michael Brown, Garner, Bland, Dubose) have started with the defendants behaving unlawfully and/or being non-compliant to orders. Whether in the justified incidents (Brown) or the legal but shitty (Bland) or the (for sake of argument) illegal (Dubose), all could have totally been avoided if the "victim" had behaved like a normal fucking person.
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Old 07-30-15, 12:28 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
And sometimes when somebody breaks the law and then resists lawful authority, some of that "interact[ion] with society" will appropriately involve the use of force, and that's where things will get messy. Because use of force isn't like TV where a simple judo chop renders the person nice and unconscious.

Nor should use of force be a gunshot to the head or back because the officer got nervous and either failed to perform as they were trained to or were poorly trained.

I never said police should NOT use force, but there is a difference between force and lethal force. And lethal force isn't always a bad thing either, but the training should be followed and if the training is such that they're following it when shooting unarmed people in the head during traffic stops, then the training should get better.

It's that simple. Cops don't deserve the benefit of the doubt after the fact. They get the benefit of the doubt up front once they become cops. We're giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not racist, not stupid, not people who will abuse their power. When they do abuse their power or fail at their job, they should be held accountable. That is the problem. A "hero" culture and incredibly strong union prevent that from happening.
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Old 07-30-15, 12:35 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Nearly all of the high profile incidents we've seen (Michael Brown, Garner, Bland, Dubose) have started with the defendants behaving unlawfully and/or being non-compliant to orders. Whether in the justified incidents (Brown) or the legal but shitty (Bland) or the (for sake of argument) illegal (Dubose), all could have totally been avoided if the "victim" had behaved like a normal fucking person.
OR...if the law enforcement officer behaved like a normal fucking cop and not an ego bruised bitch.

The only exception above is Garner given the size and manner of the person resisting the arrest. But, again, could better training have avoided that situation? Yes. Garner is on the training, not the officers involved IMO. If you're trained to physically subdue, being told not to use a choke hold doesn't mean shit in the moment. These people aren't marital arts experts, they don't have the training to easily subdue people of all sizes physically. So, they basically wound up in a street fight with this large man. It was avoidable, but the officers weren't being outrageous.
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Old 07-30-15, 12:41 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by BambooLounge View Post
OR...if the law enforcement officer behaved like a normal fucking cop and not an ego bruised bitch.

The only exception above is Garner given the size and manner of the person resisting the arrest. But, again, could better training have avoided that situation? Yes. Garner is on the training, not the officers involved IMO. If you're trained to physically subdue, being told not to use a choke hold doesn't mean shit in the moment. These people aren't marital arts experts, they don't have the training to easily subdue people of all sizes physically. So, they basically wound up in a street fight with this large man. It was avoidable, but the officers weren't being outrageous.
So Brown and Dubose were the result of the officer acting "as an ego bruised bitch"?
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Old 07-30-15, 12:47 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
.......
then you ought to ask for a refund on wherever you paid tuition, because they failed you.
Mmmmmmhhh, ok.

You can say whatever you want and try to justify these shootings. It doesn't change my opinion that police officers are using deadly force too often when it's not justified.
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Old 07-30-15, 01:05 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Kidd's?

Here's a second video (which Tensing's defense attorney released yesterday), but not the one worn by Kidd referenced above (I think this was from the officer in training - Lindenschmidt - mentioned in the report):

Hmm, that might be the one they showed.



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Old 07-30-15, 01:07 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
So Brown and Dubose were the result of the officer acting "as an ego bruised bitch"?
Brown, absolutely. Dubose, maybe just a bitch. This entire "respect my authori-tie!" (Cartman voice) response to "noncompliance" from officers is not the norm. It's just not. But, that is generally what these unjustified shootings have in common. Inexperienced and/or insecure men with guns not knowing how to handle not getting their way and reacting as offended people rather than well-trained officers.

The officer who shot Dubose was NOT trained to shoot a perp in the head if he tried to drive away during a traffic stop. He simply wasn't. He got scared and grossly overreacted. But, we all need to pretend like he is a hero doing hero's work, so how dare us, lowly civilians try to criticize his in the moment reaction.

The cop in Ferguson grossly overreacted because he wanted to play Starsky and Hutch when he approached the perps. Well-trained officers do not react like it's the movies. They go about their business, even the difficult business of having their feeling hurt and authority disrespected like professionals. But, then their unions and the conservative public defend the idiots as if they were the same type of officers.
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Old 07-30-15, 01:17 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Seems foolish to reach into a car to try and grab the keys or prevent the driver from pulling away. As we see from the video, I'm not sure deadly force does anything for the officer even if he was fearful of getting hit by the vehicle, as we can see the dead body still manages to keep the car moving until it crashes.

I think a murder charge is a big stretch, and I don't see how they win that. If manslaughter is an available verdict in addition, then the officer has more to worry about.
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Old 07-30-15, 01:24 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Manslaughter and he has to carry around a picture of Dubose wherever he goes for the rest of his life.
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