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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 07-29-15, 01:56 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Ok, so other than the lying about being dragged ...what did the cop do wrong?

I'm guessing most Cops would shoot someone who took off like that.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:01 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Kids knock loudly on the wrong door after a graduation party. Cop lives there, comes out, yells at them, they take off, and he decides it's a great time to start shooting the car. Manhunt ensues, including helicopters, to catch the last of the "knocking on doors three," and they go through a number of houses to make sure he wasn't there. No word on what they are actually charged with. Probably will include "evading arrest" because they probably should have known it was a cop that was shooting at them.

So when cops go to the wrong address and kill people, it is a horrible tragedy, but when kids go to the wrong house and knock on the door, it's a criminal offense that requires shooting up a neighborhood and a helicopter.

http://policestatedaily.com/teens-mi...anhunt-ensues/


Well, just another cop who decided to shoot up a neighborhood at night. I'm sure he had a great idea of what was behind the target, though it is impressive that he disabled the car.

I am not commenting on the actual events, but is this shit really the type of links that we want here, or are even acceptable?


Here is the story from a somewhat objective and reputable source:


SPARTA A teen said he and two others who inadvertently knocked on a wrong door early Sunday morning were shot at by an off-duty New Jersey state trooper.

Jesse Barkhorn, 18, said the three teens "were afraid for our lives" as they sped away from the officer's home on Whispering Wood Lane.

The officer, Barkhorn said, never identified himself as a police officer or warned them that he had a weapon before opening fire on their car. None of the teens were hit.

The state Attorney General's office has confirmed only that an off-duty trooper fired at the teens' car, but has not yet released further information. Sparta and State Police have referred questions to the state Attorney General's office. A call placed to the Attorney General's office Wednesday has not yet been returned.

Barkhorn says that during a nine-hour ordeal in which he was handcuffed and questioned as a criminal suspect, he was led to believe the trooper had accused the trio of trying to burglarize his home, and of trying to drive a car at him.

"That's the exact opposite of what we were trying to do. We were just scared and trying to get out of there with our lives," Barkhorn said.

Barkhorn's account has not been confirmed by authorities.

READ MORE: Off-duty state trooper shoots at car with teens inside

According to Barkhorn, he, 18-year-old John Baker-Marasco and 19-year-old Matthew Mayer had left a party and were trying to stop by a friend's house at about 2 a.m. when they mistakenly approached a house they later learned belonged to a state trooper.

The friend that the three teens were trying to reach that night does live on the same block as the trooper, Barkhorn and others have said.

They knocked repeatedly, including around the back of the home before they heard someone yelling and cursing inside, Barkhorn said.

The teens began to walk back down the driveway, and then ran to their car when the door opened, Barkhorn said. As they maneuvered around two cars on the cul-de-sac, they saw a laser pointer, he said.

"We realize it's a gun and we panic. I'm like 'dude, dude, dude, accelerate,'" Barkhorn said.

The trooper fired three shots, one of which hit the tire, Barkhorn said. About 1; miles away, on Butternut Way, the car came to a stop and at that time, Mayer took off, though the other teens didn't know why, he said.

Baker-Marasco called his mother, and then police to tell them that someone had shot at them, Barkhorn said. But when Sparta police arrived, "they were like 'sit down and don't say one word.' They didn't believe one word we were saying. They said, 'yeah, you're gonna have a long night.'"

Baker-Marasco and Barkhorn were told they were being arrested for attempted burglary, and left handcuffed in the back of a patrol car for hours, Barkhorn said. He said they were searched multiple times. They could tell a police helicopter and dogs were searching the area, Barkhorn said.

They first saw Mayer again at Sparta police headquarters, Barkhorn said.

"He didn't know why he was being arrested. He thought the helicopters were searching for the guy who shot at us," Barkhorn said.

The three teens were put in separate cells, their mugshots were taken, and they were told they were being taken somewhere else which turned out to be the State Police Barracks in Netcong, he said.

There, he waited five hours, handcuffed to a metal bench, to be interrogated, Barkhorn said.

But the duo who interviewed Barkhorn he wasn't sure what agency they were with seemed to believe he wasn't a burglar, he said. They asked several times if the trooper had identified himself as such, and if the car swerved toward him, Barkhorn said.

He was eventually let go without any charges, he said.

Barkhorn said his family is planning to meet with an attorney Wednesday about the incident.

"We're really not sure what to do," he said. "I've never been involved in anything like this."
Link
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Old 07-29-15, 02:02 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

GR - I can't imagine any cop I know that would shoot someone who took off like that unless they were and armed and dangerous person they were looking for.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:05 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
I am not commenting on the actual events, but is this shit really the type of links that we want here, or are even acceptable?


Here is the story from a somewhat objective and reputable source:




Link
Thanks. I should have looked for a better link.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:11 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I'm guessing most Cops would shoot someone who took off like that.
What a sad, strange world you live in.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:37 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Ok, so other than the lying about being dragged ...what did the cop do wrong?
Shoot the guy in the head.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:45 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Ok, so other than the lying about being dragged ...what did the cop do wrong?

I'm guessing most Cops would shoot someone who took off like that.
I can't think of any that I know who would react that way in that situation.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:52 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Bob_Bobbson View Post
Shoot the guy in the head.
Well yeah, ok, besides that too...
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Old 07-29-15, 03:51 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

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Old 07-29-15, 03:56 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post

I'm guessing most Cops would shoot someone who took off like that.


We had a similar situation years ago. A couple in a Tahoe were stealing bikes from the front sidewalk of Walmart early in the morning. One of our officers confronts them and reaches in to take the keys out of the ignition (don't do that). The driver slammed on the gas and the officer ended up getting drug for a couple hundred feet. The only thing he could think to do was shoot out the left rear tire of the vehicle. After a short chase we caught them.

Last edited by covenant; 07-29-15 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 07-29-15, 04:09 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Why is it time and time again, what the perps did exactly to bring up the confrontations are either minimized or left out completely? I'm not defending the cops for what he did after being confronted, but these stories that try to paint the cops are evil-doers all have the initial acts and words exchanged conveniently left out. The more likely scenario would have been 3 teens laughing, shouting and saying stupid shit at each other went up to a house and THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. Banging on both the front and back door, looking through the windows, while shouting profanities. If you're inside the house and an egomaniac, it's can easily be perceived as home invasion. YES, YES, YES, the cop then shot at the car and all that shit, but if people can just hold their own actions accountable, instead of constantly playing the victim card, this world would be a better place.
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Old 07-29-15, 04:50 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by SuperJim88 View Post
Why is it time and time again, what the perps did exactly to bring up the confrontations are either minimized or left out completely? I'm not defending the cops for what he did after being confronted, but these stories that try to paint the cops are evil-doers all have the initial acts and words exchanged conveniently left out. The more likely scenario would have been 3 teens laughing, shouting and saying stupid shit at each other went up to a house and THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. Banging on both the front and back door, looking through the windows, while shouting profanities. If you're inside the house and an egomaniac, it's can easily be perceived as home invasion. YES, YES, YES, the cop then shot at the car and all that shit, but if people can just hold their own actions accountable, instead of constantly playing the victim card, this world would be a better place.
The problem is when, no matter what a person does, an officer IMMEDIATELY escalates it to firing their gun, which means they've decided that it's time for the person to die. We have given officers the responsibility of carrying deadly weapons in order to do their job. Sometimes it is 100% necessary. But should those kids have DIED as a result of those actions? Because the only reason to sling bullets in anyone's direction is because you are trying to kill them.
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Old 07-29-15, 05:57 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by SuperJim88 View Post
Why is it time and time again, what the perps did exactly to bring up the confrontations are either minimized or left out completely? I'm not defending the cops for what he did after being confronted, but these stories that try to paint the cops are evil-doers all have the initial acts and words exchanged conveniently left out. The more likely scenario would have been 3 teens laughing, shouting and saying stupid shit at each other went up to a house and THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. Banging on both the front and back door, looking through the windows, while shouting profanities. If you're inside the house and an egomaniac, it's can easily be perceived as home invasion. YES, YES, YES, the cop then shot at the car and all that shit, but if people can just hold their own actions accountable, instead of constantly playing the victim card, this world would be a better place.
I think it is left out or minimized because what they did was so minimal compared to the action taken. Now why is it common to see, "the more likely scenario" in these types of things to essentially minimize what or why the police reacted like they did.

I think the vast majority of cops are good. But if a trooper comes out and shoots in a neighborhood when there was no danger to anyone (they were backing down the driveway by the time the guy got to the door), they shouldn't be a cop. But time and time again, they end up remaining a cop, even when they do kill someone.

If the video of the U of Cincy cop had been a Cincy cop and not a uni cop, you woudn't see the DA going after murder.
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Old 07-29-15, 06:00 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
I am not commenting on the actual events, but is this shit really the type of links that we want here, or are even acceptable?


Here is the story from a somewhat objective and reputable source:




Link
Pfft. How is that link any better? A cop still fired his gun at the males. Are you assuming, like the off-duty cop, they were in fact trying to rob the place?
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Old 07-29-15, 06:04 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Jesus christ he straight executed that man

Lock his ass up
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Old 07-29-15, 06:08 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by printerati View Post
What a sad, strange world you live in.
Yep. Just sayin'. I would guess, based on what I've seen and the support from Cop Apologists here, Cops can and will fire on a Perp who is driving off that way.

Originally Posted by Bob_Bobbson View Post
Shoot the guy in the head.
Cops are above this? Im guessing he felt his life was in danger. What difference does it make where the bullets dig in?

Originally Posted by nemein View Post
I can't think of any that I know who would react that way in that situation.
A fleeing perp is a fleeing perp.
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Old 07-29-15, 06:17 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Does ohio have lesser included charges when dealing with murder?
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Old 07-29-15, 08:30 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Idiot university cop. If he was a real cop he would have waited to kill the man while transporting him to or at the jail.
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Old 07-29-15, 08:58 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
A fleeing perp is a fleeing perp.
It is illegal to shoot a fleeing suspect unless the suspect is a danger to others.
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Old 07-29-15, 08:58 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Here it is :

<iframe width="740" height="472" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z0cdejrSjyc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I've watched this a couple times and I honestly can't tell what the guy does that sets off the cop? Reaching for the keys, maybe? He just closes the door when the cop tries to open it, then the cop lunges through the window and starts yelling "stop" before shooting him. It doesn't look like he's trying to get away until after the cop starts yelling.

The cop stands there calmly as the guy gets into his glove compartment (I though that was going to be where he lost his shit), but then seems to go nuts when the guy won't open his door. Am I missing something, or is that really all there is to it?
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Old 07-29-15, 10:47 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
I've watched this a couple times and I honestly can't tell what the guy does that sets off the cop? Reaching for the keys, maybe?
Obviously it's when he starts the car and puts it in gear, realizing he's gonna run.
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Old 07-29-15, 10:51 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
I've watched this a couple times and I honestly can't tell what the guy does that sets off the cop? Reaching for the keys, maybe? He just closes the door when the cop tries to open it, then the cop lunges through the window and starts yelling "stop" before shooting him. It doesn't look like he's trying to get away until after the cop starts yelling.

The cop stands there calmly as the guy gets into his glove compartment (I though that was going to be where he lost his shit), but then seems to go nuts when the guy won't open his door. Am I missing something, or is that really all there is to it?
You can see his right hand go for the keys in the ignition and he turns the car on. That's the point when the cop knows he's going to flee the scene. There's no justification for the shooting at all although I expect him to say that he feared getting run over by the car. Is that going to be enough reasonable doubt for a jury? We'll see.
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Old 07-29-15, 11:34 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
The cop stands there calmly as the guy gets into his glove compartment (I though that was going to be where he lost his shit), but then seems to go nuts when the guy won't open his door. Am I missing something, or is that really all there is to it?
Yeah, having viewed it a half dozen times...it's still confusing to me...crazy how fast it happened. At first I thought he was starting the car and was about to pull away, with the cop's arm still inside (maybe that's what he thought?) We have the advantage of being able to MM QB it a zillion times.

I guess my question would be is that what the officer was trained to do? Was drawing your gun like that taught to him, to the point where his training just instinctively kicked in and he just drew the gun like that...

I could see a manslaughter charge, but anything more...especially life... seems like too much to me. But that would be an ignorant opinion (like most here) I wasn't there, know next to nothing about police protocol...or the difference between University police and regular police.

Last edited by Artman; 07-30-15 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 07-30-15, 07:58 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Yeah, having viewed it a half dozen times...it's still confusing to me...crazy how fast it happened. At first I thought he was starting the car and was about to pull away, with the cop's arm still inside (maybe that's what he thought?) We have the advantage of being able to MM QB it a zillion times.

I guess my question would be is that what the officer was trained to do? Was drawing your gun like that taught to him, to the point where his training just instinctively kicked in and he just drew the gun like that...
I've watched the video probably a dozen times myself, and I'm still not sure what happened during the shooting.

It's clear that the guy is going for his ignition and planning to take off, and it's clear that the officer reaches into the vehicle. After that it becomes a jumpy mess. The devil is in the details inside that jumpy mess. If the officer got tangled up in the car and dragged forward even a few feet, then he has a much more tenable argument for lethal force. That's a life or death situation (a neighboring agency here had an officer end up permanently disabled from a very similar scenario). If the officer wasn't tangled, or fired before the car started even moving (as some posit), then it's a bad shoot.

This is a situation where there was a very questionable shooting and a dispute about what happened, and a trial is completely appropriate to sort through what happened... that's what trials are for. If there's no plea, I imagine we'll see a similar result as in the BART shooting, where if he's convicted of something, it will be less than murder... it's a tricky situation to prosecute when you've got an officer in a situation where force is legally justified* (as it was here... this guy was fleeing), but deadly force might not be. It doesn't bode well for the prosecution that people are re-watching the video multiple times and still not understanding what happened, since the officer will be judged based on his viewpoint at the exact time of the shooting, without benefit of hindsight or repeat viewings. Has anybody read whether any of the other officers on scene had body cams? That would be enormously helpful, but I haven't seen anything of that.

*: Legally justified, but terrible practice... it's instinctual to try to reach into a vehicle like that, and it's horribly unsafe. Officers have been injured and killed doing that over and over. Police training needs to break that habit, or only do it in true life or death situations, like when there's a kidnapping victim in the vehicle who could be lost if the subject gets away.

(While I think a trial makes sense, and while I don't expect a prosecutor to be neutral... that's not his job... I will say that the prosecutor's grand-standing comments were disgusting. I wonder what office he's planning to run for next?)

I could see a manslaughter charge, but anything more...especially life... seems like too much to me. But that would be an ignorant opinion (like most here) I wasn't there, know next to nothing about police protocol...or the difference between University police and regular police.
There's often no difference between University police and "regular" police in terms of training... they usually go to the same academies, receive the same training, and have to maintain the same continuing education standards. The differences are mostly jurisdictional (what laws they can enforce and where) and the nature of the population they police (campus police do a lot more "babysitting" type work, in my experience, since they're there in part to shepherd students).
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Old 07-30-15, 08:49 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Yep. Just sayin'. I would guess, based on what I've seen and the support from Cop Apologists here, Cops can and will fire on a Perp who is driving off that way.
"Most" cops?

Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
Does ohio have lesser included charges when dealing with murder?
There is speculation that an additional three-year prison term may apply because "the offender had a firearm on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control while committing the offense and displayed the firearm, brandished the firearm, indicated that the offender possessed the firearm, or used it to facilitate the offense." The law makes no distinction about the offender (the police officer, in this case) or the firearm (his service weapon) if it is used to commit a crime (murder in this case, although they also mentioned a fictitious example of a bad cop using his service weapon to rob a bank). Link to the state code here.
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