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-   -   The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/597561-cops-behaving-badly-thread.html)

Baron Of Hell 06-17-15 11:06 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Cops acting like gang members big surprise. Funny how a whistle blower can get run out of the police department when there are only a few bad apples.

Hokeyboy 06-17-15 11:20 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Baron Of Hell (Post 12511402)
Cops acting like gang members big surprise. Funny how a whistle blower can get run out of the police department when there are only a few bad apples.

According to this thread, EVERYONE'S against bad cops, you shouldn't even have to ever mention it. EVER!!! Except for other cops, apparently.

Draven 06-17-15 11:30 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by inri222 (Post 12511269)
‘Rat Cop' Joe Crystal Shunned From Baltimore Police Department After Reporting Officer Brutality

“What happens in the family stays in the family. They’re mad at me because I went against that rule.
I remember saying to him: ‘Are we fucking cops, or are we in a gang? Which one is it? You can’t have it both ways.’”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7582374.html



Crystal prided himself on his ability to talk to suspects as humans and not act like they were beneath him.
Well we certainly can't have an officer like that on the force...run him out of town!

kvrdave 06-17-15 11:30 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Video at the link.

Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/17-...73bDaD72RQY.16

Eaton County, MI — It was announced this week that the officer who shot and killed 17-year-old Deven Guilford for flexing his rights this past February, will not be charged for any crimes.

Deven was traveling along the road and flashed his lights at an officer because his headlights were so bright that they nearly made Deven run off the road. He was then pulled over by Sgt. Frost of the Eaton County Sheriff’s Office, who stopped the young man for no other reason than the fact that he flashed his lights.

When Frost approached the car, Guilford explained that he was simply flashing his lights to be a polite driver, and let the officer know that his high beams were on so he didn’t cause an accident.


The officer began to get aggressive with Guilford when he was not immediately obedient and attempted to flex his rights during the traffic stop. Guilford refused to show the officer his license and registration because he had broken no laws and the officer had no reason to stop him.

Guilford also began recording the encounter with his cell phone and let the officer know that he was filming for his own safety. He then asked the officer if he was being detained and for what reason. He was told that he was being detained because he refused to comply with Frost and show him his ID. However, not showing his ID is a secondary offense, meaning the officer would actually need a real reason to pull him over to begin with.


On a power trip, Frost violently ripped Guilford out of the vehicle and forced him down to the ground. Guilford attempted to remain filming while he complied with the officer’s orders and moved to the ground. Sadly, Guilford was not moving fast enough for Frost, so he tased the young boy. At this time, both the body camera and the cell phone footage got cut off.

Off camera, Frost shot and killed the young boy. The known details are sparse because the killing happened out of the view of the dash-cam, and the body camera was turned off at that point. However, the officer claims that the young boy attacked him, so he “feared for his life” and killed him, firing 7 shots from his weapon.

After the announcement that officer Frost would not be charged, the Guilford family released the following statement:

“There was no reason or necessity for the officer to physically remove our son from the car without considering other options to avoid an unnecessary violent escalation. It must be also noted that Deven was not in possession (of) any weapon and emphatically told the officer that he was not armed. We also have serious concerns about whether the officer used unreasonable force against Deven under the circumstances.”
There seem to be more and more of these stops where the cops don't have a legitimate reason to stop the person, then claim they have a right to ask for ID when they don't, and then shit happens. So this kid was shot after a confrontation with an officer who did not have a legal reason to stop the kid. Is there a refresher course for cops on why and when they actually have a legal right to stop people? Because it appears that many need it.

Hokeyboy 06-17-15 11:33 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Absolutely horrifying.

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 11:39 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
:lol: Well, I've certainly learned that if you want your story to be taken uncritically at face value (even if you're a litigant in a lawsuit) by police critics or sources like HuffPo, be a whistleblower against police.

Draven 06-17-15 11:44 AM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by kvrdave (Post 12511431)
There seem to be more and more of these stops where the cops don't have a legitimate reason to stop the person, then claim they have a right to ask for ID when they don't, and then shit happens. So this kid was shot after a confrontation with an officer who did not have a legal reason to stop the kid. Is there a refresher course for cops on why and when they actually have a legal right to stop people? Because it appears that many need it.

Obviously this is terrifying, but what also bothers me is the idea that apparently what this kid should have done was go along with everything the officer said and then spend his own time and money fighting the citation. And because he didn't do that, he was ultimately shot to death.

Do cops really not understand the laws they are enforcing?

slop101 06-17-15 12:12 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12511454)
Do cops really not understand the laws they are enforcing?

:lol:

You have to be joking! Even good lawyers have to look up a majority of the laws for cases they're working on. Unless it's something obvious, or something they've already dealt with, many cops don't know shit about the specific laws they're "enforcing".

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 12:22 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by kvrdave (Post 12511431)
There seem to be more and more of these stops where the cops don't have a legitimate reason to stop the person, then claim they have a right to ask for ID when they don't, and then shit happens. So this kid was shot after a confrontation with an officer who did not have a legal reason to stop the kid. Is there a refresher course for cops on why and when they actually have a legal right to stop people? Because it appears that many need it.


Originally Posted by Draven
Obviously this is terrifying, but what also bothers me is the idea that apparently what this kid should have done was go along with everything the officer said and then spend his own time and money fighting the citation. And because he didn't do that, he was ultimately shot to death.

Do cops really not understand the laws they are enforcing?

I don't dare suggest that you guys may be less qualified experts on Michigan traffic law than an officer who enforces that law, but maybe don't take your news from Freethoughtproject.com ? Surely you can tell that's just an obviously biased source, right?

From the actual DA's report:

http://www.eatoncounty.org/images/De...ss_Release.pdf (based on an investigation by an outside agency, and which is worth the read)


Sgt. Frost states that he conducted a traffic stop on Deven Guilford's car for flashing" his high beams twice while Sgt. Frost approached in the opposite direction. In the body-cam video, Deven admitted to this action.

A police office may conduct a traffic stop, under MCL 257. 683, if the officer has reasonable ground" to believe that a violation of the Motor Vehicle Code had occurred.

Michigan's Motor Vehicle Code prohibits a driver from using high beams or any lights that will project into oncoming drivers' eyes within 500 feet of oncoming vehicles. MCL 257.700 states:
a) " Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated on a highway or shoulder adjacent thereto during the times specified in section 684, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:
b) Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, such driver shall use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver.
The lowermost distribution of light, specified in section 699 paragraph (c), shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times regardless of road contour and loading."

It is noteworthy that the Michigan Secretary of State's " What Every Driver Must Know" booklet, which is a foundation for all young or new drivers' knowledge of traffic laws, says under the section on Using Your Headlights:
It is illegal to use or even flash high-beam headlights within 500 feet of an oncoming vehicle. Also, dim your lights for pedestrians and cyclists.
If oncoming drivers do not dim their headlights, keep your eyes on the right edge of the road ahead. Do not look directly into oncoming headlights. The glare may blind you for several seconds. A dirty windshield will make headlight glare worse."
emphasis added)

Sgt. Frost had the legal authority to conduct the traffic stop for the traffic violation he witnessed.

A violation of MCL 257. 700(b) is a civil infraction for which an appearance ticket can be written. A physical arrest cannot be made of a driver solely due to a civil violation; however, the investigation of this violation—including attempting to identify the driver —is a basis to continue the traffic stop detention for a reasonable time. If, during that reasonable time needed to complete the civil infraction stop — including efforts to identify the driver— other violations of law occur, the original reasonable detention time" may be extended.

Dave99 06-17-15 01:02 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
NY cops kills his ex-wife after a vehicle chase, with his youngest daughter in the ex-wifes car with her. Local police happened to be near by and confronted him after the initial shots were fired through the drivers door. They convinced him to let them retrieve the daughter from the car, which they did. It appeared the local cops knew this officer, as they were negotiating by name with him. The officer then (some minutes perhaps later) walked around the front of the car and fired 4 more shots through the windshield towards his ex-wife. The local police never fired, and he was taken into custody.

It will be interesting to see if those last 4 shots were the ones that killed her, as I would venture a guess that someone holding a gun, who had just fired at his ex-wife, somehow walks around the car and gets off 4 more shots, would end up on the ground with a few bullet wounds.

video of the initial shots can be seen pretty clearly and the follow-up shots are basically audio, can't see from this angle :
http://video-embed.nj.com/services/p...XcA1qURLTMd8vZ

story link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-n...ed-gun-at-her/

Bandoman 06-17-15 01:10 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel (Post 12511496)
I don't dare suggest that you guys may be less qualified experts on Michigan traffic law than an officer who enforces that law, but maybe don't take your news from Freethoughtproject.com ? Surely you can tell that's just an obviously biased source, right?

From the actual DA's report:

http://www.eatoncounty.org/images/De...ss_Release.pdf (based on an investigation by an outside agency, and which is worth the read)


Michigan's Motor Vehicle Code prohibits a driver from using high beams or any lights that will project into oncoming drivers' eyes within 500 feet of oncoming vehicles


So the officer was breaking the law as well.

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 01:20 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Bandoman (Post 12511542)
So the officer was breaking the law as well.

:lol: I KNEW IT, DIRTY COP!!!

That's certainly a tenable argument. If somebody wanted to cite him for that, then that would seem like an appropriate sanction.

EddieMoney 06-17-15 01:30 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel (Post 12511556)
:lol: I KNEW IT, DIRTY COP!!!

That's certainly a tenable argument. If somebody wanted to <del>cite</del> shoot him for that, then that would seem like an appropriate sanction.


CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 01:35 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Do people's brains really work that way? He was not shot for his headlights. Jesus.

If I stop you for jaywalking, and you lie about your name, I'm placing you under arrest. You aren't being arrested for jaywalking, but for giving a false name.

If you resist me placing you under arrest, I'm using force to effect the arrest. That force is because of the resisting, not jaywalking.

If you assault me, I'm using the force necessary to defend myself, up to and including deadly force. If you die, it's not because "I shot you for jaywalking."

EddieMoney 06-17-15 01:43 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Tell it to the guy who had his head blown off for flashing his brights!


Spoiler:
;)

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 01:45 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by EddieMoney (Post 12511576)
Tell it to the guy who had his head blown off for flashing his brights!


Spoiler:
;)

Thank you for the smiley. Poe's Law is often in full effect in this thread.

Giantrobo 06-17-15 02:20 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I thought Cops all across America were pulling back on "enforcing laws" thanks to Ferguson, Baltimore, etc? I heard LAPD Officers may have just started doing this in the last few weeks. Why didn't he just let the kid go with a warning about the law concerning flashing high beams?

EddieMoney 06-17-15 02:34 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
I guess he couldn't see well and thought the kid was black.

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 02:34 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by Giantrobo (Post 12511617)
I thought Cops all across America were pulling back on "enforcing laws" thanks to Ferguson, Baltimore, etc? I heard LAPD Officers may have just started doing this in the last few weeks. Why didn't he just let the kid go with a warning about the law concerning flashing high beams?

1) This happened in February, so it predates Baltimore at least. Baltimore is the one that's prompted most of the "fuck it" sentiment that I've encountered at least, because of the decision to prosecute everybody including the arresting officers who had nothing to do with Gray's alleged mistreatment during transport.

2) Stopping people for headlight tickets isn't exactly the pinnacle of proactive policing. It's a relatively low risk event usually.

3) Did you watch the video or read the District Attorney report? The kid didn't let him get to the point of "letting him go with a warning." The driver was totally non-compliant from the outset. No officer on the planet is going to give a warning to somebody who has committed an offense but won't produce a license or otherwise identify themselves on a traffic stop... I suppose he could have written, "He wouldn't tell me" on the name blank of the warning citation.

Giantrobo 06-17-15 02:49 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
Ok,fair enough.

Giantrobo 06-17-15 02:50 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by EddieMoney (Post 12511632)
I guess he couldn't see well and <b>thought the kid was black</b>.

I hear that's one of the boxes you can check on police reports.

kvrdave 06-17-15 02:54 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel (Post 12511496)
I don't dare suggest that you guys may be less qualified experts on Michigan traffic law than an officer who enforces that law, but maybe don't take your news from Freethoughtproject.com ? Surely you can tell that's just an obviously biased source, right?

From the actual DA's report:

http://www.eatoncounty.org/images/De...ss_Release.pdf (based on an investigation by an outside agency, and which is worth the read)

:lol: Okay, he was pulled over for flashing his brights, which while illegal, seems to be the way society has gone for telling others that their brights are on. I have flashed high beams to cops because they had their high beams on. In a wild twist, they merely turned theirs off. Perhaps he should have done the right thing and called 911 to let them know there was a car with its bright lights on.

covenant 06-17-15 03:03 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by kvrdave (Post 12507046)


Originally Posted by kvrdave (Post 12511431)

Dave in this thread: :D
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...27/390/e67.gif

CaptainMarvel 06-17-15 03:04 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 
If he had given the kid a ticket for flashing his lights, then he would have been a butthead. It's not doing anything illegal, but it's a dick move.

Stopping somebody who has committed an offense and giving them a warning (which he had already done previously that night as well) however is perfectly reasonable. You're grasping at straws to shift blame from the actual person responsible for how poorly things went.

hdnmickey 06-17-15 03:08 PM

Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread
 

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel (Post 12511572)
Do people's brains really work that way? He was not shot for his headlights. Jesus.

Thankfully not everybody. But the problem does seem to be spreading. To the point where I seriously think you are wasting your time trying to provide any facts to those that are affected.


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