Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

NDAA and SOPA

Old 12-20-11, 03:49 PM
  #51  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
The Beatles would have made no money after 1966?
Should the surviving Beatles still control music they recorded more than one and a half times my lifetime ago?
Old 12-20-11, 03:51 PM
  #52  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post


Right. The only solution is to offer hard goods with a value. On the electronic side, make all albums $3.99 like Amazon does so the hassle of pirating outweighs the ease of just buying it.


What about software?
Old 12-20-11, 11:40 PM
  #53  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,189
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
Is the main problem you have with the war on drugs the execution of it, or rather, your opinion on the morality of the war on drugs and drug use itself?
It is the fact that we can restrict the lives of people and throw civil liberties out the window to believe that something like this can be "won." In this instance, we will restrict the uses of the internet and end up with a system similar to China's internet, and it won't stop piracy. In the end, it will be the law abiding people that have to put up with the bullshit this law is purported to be after.
Old 12-20-11, 11:52 PM
  #54  
DVD Talk Legend
 
sracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 13,501
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It is the fact that we can restrict the lives of people and throw civil liberties out the window to believe that something like this can be "won." In this instance, we will restrict the uses of the internet and end up with a system similar to China's internet, and it won't stop piracy. In the end, it will be the law abiding people that have to put up with the bullshit this law is purported to be after.
Exactly. They already have the DMCA, that's more than enough.
Old 12-21-11, 03:35 AM
  #55  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
It makes me wonder, is "stopping internet piracy" even important? Who really cares? Rather than stop piracy maybe the world needs to change in regard to how we value content.

Music for example. It's pretty much already happened, but not to long from now I think all recorded music will be free. Musicians will not earn any money for recording their music. Music content won't be a product, it will just be a free promotional tool to generate interest in the musician who will then earn money by performing live and selling tickets, selling T-shirts, etc.
This post reminded me of this Penny Arcade:

Old 12-21-11, 03:40 AM
  #56  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It is the fact that we can restrict the lives of people and throw civil liberties out the window to believe that something like this can be "won." In this instance, we will restrict the uses of the internet and end up with a system similar to China's internet, and it won't stop piracy. In the end, it will be the law abiding people that have to put up with the bullshit this law is purported to be after.
The same arguments could easily be made against the war on drugs, the war on terror, and illegal immigration enforcement.

I don't recall there being a constitutional guarantee for internet access.

Last edited by Superboy; 12-21-11 at 07:33 AM.
Old 12-21-11, 08:14 AM
  #57  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,900
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

If media companies really controlled everything, then NBC and Time-Warner would own ISPs and control the internet.
Old 12-21-11, 08:29 AM
  #58  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Thank you for reminding me how much I hate Penny Arcade.
Old 12-21-11, 08:59 AM
  #59  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Should the surviving Beatles still control music they recorded more than one and a half times my lifetime ago?
Of course. Why wouldn't they?


Originally Posted by Superboy View Post


What about software?
What about it? I think we are already seeing the effects with the Mac App store and the iOS store and apps that cost $.99.
Old 12-21-11, 09:03 AM
  #60  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Of course. Why wouldn't they?
Article 1, Section 8?
Old 12-21-11, 09:10 AM
  #61  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

I don't see any problem with the sheet music for A Day in the Life being public domain or the ability to perform or broadcast A Day in the Life royalty free. But should A Day in the Life, the recording made my the Beatles, be a free download? No.
Old 12-21-11, 09:31 AM
  #62  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I don't see any problem with the sheet music for A Day in the Life being public domain or the ability to perform or broadcast A Day in the Life royalty free. But should A Day in the Life, the recording made my the Beatles, be a free download? No.
So you favor unlimited copyright for certain types of creative works but not others. What is your criteria for that?
Old 12-21-11, 09:51 AM
  #63  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

How about this: we cut copyright back to five years, but allow people to renew as many times they want -- with one catch: the first renewal costs $5 and each subsequent one doubles in price. Since most stuff is crap that no one will be watching/reading/listening to ten years from now, works will become public domain once the renewal fee exceeds the amount the copyright holder expects to earn in the next five years -- The Little Mermaid will remain in copyright for centuries, but Rebecca Black's Friday will be public domain by 2016.

Conservatives: It's a market-based solution to copyright term extension.

Liberals: Think of it as an intellectual property tax.

(Yes, I know there's a Constitutional issue, but we can get around it by setting some upper bound for how many times copyright can be renewed.)
Old 12-21-11, 09:55 AM
  #64  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
How about this: we cut copyright back to five years, but allow people to renew as many times they want -- with one catch: the first renewal costs $5 and each subsequent one doubles in price. Since most stuff is crap that no one will be watching/reading/listening to ten years from now, works will become public domain once the renewal fee exceeds the amount the copyright holder expects to earn in the next five years -- The Little Mermaid will remain in copyright for centuries, but Rebecca Black's Friday will be public domain by 2016.

Conservatives: It's a market-based solution to copyright term extension.

Liberals: Think of it as an intellectual property tax.

(Yes, I know there's a Constitutional issue, but we can get around it by setting some upper bound for how many times copyright can be renewed.)
I think the amounts are a bit low but it's an interesting idea.
Old 12-21-11, 09:56 AM
  #65  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
So you favor unlimited copyright for certain types of creative works but not others. What is your criteria for that?
The "work" is what is written on paper. The "recording" is a product.

It's like the difference between a Beethoven symphony and the recording made by a symphony orchestra composed of professional musicians of that symphony.
Old 12-21-11, 10:26 AM
  #66  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
The "work" is what is written on paper. The "recording" is a product.

It's like the difference between a Beethoven symphony and the recording made by a symphony orchestra composed of professional musicians of that symphony.
Um... what? There is no justification for that viewpoint in copyright law whatsoever.
Old 12-21-11, 10:32 AM
  #67  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,189
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
The same arguments could easily be made against the war on drugs, the war on terror, and illegal immigration enforcement.

I don't recall there being a constitutional guarantee for internet access.
No constitutional guarantee against book burning either, but I don't want my government taking part in it.
Old 12-21-11, 10:34 AM
  #68  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

It is important that you understand the difference between a "musical work" and a "sound recording". A musical work and a sound recording of a musical work have separate copyright protection. The children's song, "Three Blind Mice" is absolutely in the public domain worldwide. You may publish it, record it, sing it, use it in your movie, or do anything else with "Three Blind Mice" that you can ever imagine. However, no sound recordings of "Three Blind Mice" are in the public domain. If you want to use any sound recording - even a sound recording of a public domain song - you must either license a recording or create your own recording.
http://www.pdinfo.com/record.php

I'm curious. Do you hold the belief that all recorded music should be free?
Old 12-21-11, 10:40 AM
  #69  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
http://www.pdinfo.com/record.php

I'm curious. Do you hold the belief that all recorded music should be free?
After a limited copyright? Absolutely.

I'm not at all sure you understand what the contents of that link actually mean.
Old 12-21-11, 10:46 AM
  #70  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
That's discussing derivative works based upon material already in the public domain; it has nothing to do with the original tune being written on paper.
Old 12-21-11, 10:49 AM
  #71  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

As someone that creates music, I disagree. Sure, you can have my sheet music but my performance and the work I put into creating the finished recorded product should be mine forever to do with what I please. Why should my copyright be limited? Who are you to take my creation for free? Record your version.
Old 12-21-11, 10:50 AM
  #72  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

I think I'll bow out of the piracy debate. I'll never agree with you on this.
Old 12-21-11, 10:57 AM
  #73  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
As someone that creates music, I disagree. Sure, you can have my sheet music but my performance and the work I put into creating the finished recorded product should be mine forever to do with what I please.
That's not how copyright works -- you have two different copyrights on the sheet music and the finished recording. The sheet music's copyright is not inferior to the recording's, it's just separate.

Why should my copyright be limited? Who are you to take my creation for free? Record your version.
Copyright should be limited because that's what the Constitution specifies. The idea of copyright lasting for a lifetime and more is a recent invention and it's a bad idea that's being pushed by evil corporations.
Old 12-21-11, 11:01 AM
  #74  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: NDAA and SOPA

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
As someone that creates music, I disagree. Sure, you can have my sheet music but my performance and the work I put into creating the finished recorded product should be mine forever to do with what I please. Why should my copyright be limited? Who are you to take my creation for free? Record your version.
It's not just about covers. What about the music rights issues for DVDs? If those copyrights were expired a lot of people would get to enjoy more TV shows.

Copyright isn't primarily about ensuring that creators can make a living off their work. It's primarily about making sure that there is an incentive to create.
Old 12-21-11, 11:04 AM
  #75  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: NDAA and SOPA

The clause was written before recorded music existed.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.