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-   -   The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition) (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/592386-one-only-global-warming-thread-part-11-co2-kills-10-billion-people-edition.html)

Psi 02-11-19 04:44 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Just kidding. He is really THAT dumb.

grundle 02-11-19 09:24 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 13498847)
If you want to talk intelligently about climate change, then go read up on the issues instead of obsessing about Ocasio-Cortez and her Green Deal, or repeating Trump administration lies.

- People from the Marshall Islands can already come to the US as permanent residents and legally work here. About 1/3 of them already have. But, even if they get financial compensation (and they don't now), there is nothing that can make up for their loss of homes and country when the entire place becomes uninhabitable.

- And that's the real damage of climate change, not that mankind will go extinct or the Earth will be totally under water. It's the effect of flood, fire, weather extremes, lower crop yield, all the things that didn't kill dinosaurs but yet are unsuitable for human living as we know it today. People have adapted to today's climate and built homes and businesses near coasts and rivers and forests. When environmental conditions change that affect their surroundings, that's how their lives are disrupted. They won't die, but they will lose homes and have their work and livelihood in jeopardy, much like the people of the Marshall Islands.

- The Kyoto Protocol failed. A lot of major carbon-producing nations did not participate for various reasons, including the US, Canada, China and India. I don't know how you can claim that it worked when carbon emissions continued to increase and global temperature rose even more rapidly than before. One big reason for those countries to not participate is that they didn't want to pay penalties applied if they didn't meet their reduction targets -- a kind of global carbon tax.

- That's what the Paris Agreement tried to fix, by still setting reduction targets but without imposing penalties in case of failure to meet. And even then our idiot President and many of his idiot followers still wanted out, because they thought it was a big hoax or didn't want to commit to any reduction.

So while I don't agree with Ocasio -Cortez on her Green Deal (and a lot of other things), in the big scheme of things she is irrelevant. Right now it's Trump who is killing the Earth and wiping out countries and our nature and environment.


I support a revenue neutral carbon tax.

It's horrible that our burning of fossil fuels is hurting some people.

As the same time, our burning of fossil fuels has helped the overall human population far more than it has hurt it.

The only reason that the vast majority of U.S. citizens did not freeze to death this winter is because of our burning of fossil fuels.

The only reason we can power the mechanized farm equipment that prevents us from starving to death is because of fossil fuels.

The only reason that most of us have electricity is because of fossil fuels.

The only reason that most of us have light bulbs, refrigerators, and washing machines is because of fossil fuels.

Life involves tradeoffs.

We, as a society, have decided that at least for now, our burning of fossil fuels does more good than harm to the overall population.

But some people have been hurt by it, and that is why I support using a carbon tax to help those people, as well as to give them U.S. citizenship.

Because there are no solutions.

Instead, there are tradeoffs.

And for now, with our current level and state of technology, that is the best tradeoff that I can think of.

In the future, when wind and solar power, as well as the batteries to store their energy, are better and cheaper, then we can stop burning fossil fuels.

But not now.

Not yet.

You and I both want people to be healthy and safe. We just have different ideas on how to best go about that. And that's fine.

grundle 02-11-19 09:32 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 13498881)
One of the hilariously dumb things Ben Shapiro said was along the lines of: IF global warming is really a threat, and the seas rise five or even ten feet, then no big deal! People can just sell their homes (homes that are or will be submerged under 10 feet of water permanently :lol:) and move inland!

fake edit: I found it. What a fucking moron. Sadly, this man has not gotten any smarter since then.

https://twitter.com/die_Teja/status/948078039338012673


Ben Shapiro says they would sell their land at a discount. But if it was underwater or about to be underwater, no one would want to buy it, even at a discount. If no one wants to buy it, they won't be able to sell it. So he is indeed wrong - very wrong - about that.

As it stands right now, the demand for beachfront property is very high, and people are currently paying huge prices for it. For example, in 2010, Al Gore spent spent $8 million on an ocean view villa in Montecito, California. So he must not be as scared as he pretends to be. Source: https://www.latimes.com/home/la-hm-h...428-story.html

Psi 02-11-19 10:24 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by grundle (Post 13499108)
You and I both want people to be healthy and safe. We just have different ideas on how to best go about that. And that's fine.

You are being ridiculous .No one is saying that the only solution to global warming is for all of us to live like primitive cavemen. Even if for some people that seems like a good option.

Nick Danger 02-12-19 08:52 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

We, as a society, have decided that at least for now, our burning of fossil fuels does more good than harm to the overall population.
Almost true. We, as a society, have decided that enjoyment today does us more good than harm in the future.

It's similar to the people who smoke cigarettes who believe only other people get cancer. They like cigarettes, they don't like being told not to do it, and they don't care what will happen in thirty years. They become willfully blind if someone tries to point out the very high likelihood of future misery that will be caused by their habits today.

It's different from people who smoke cigarettes because the great advantage of global warming is that it won't affect us. It will affect future generations -- who are people we've never even met. That makes it much easier to say, "Screw them. I'm going to get mine while the getting is good." It's running up a national debt of not trillions, but hundreds of trillions of dollars, and leaving it for people in the future to pay.

grundle 02-14-19 10:26 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Nick Danger (Post 13499308)
Almost true. We, as a society, have decided that enjoyment today does us more good than harm in the future.

It's similar to the people who smoke cigarettes who believe only other people get cancer. They like cigarettes, they don't like being told not to do it, and they don't care what will happen in thirty years. They become willfully blind if someone tries to point out the very high likelihood of future misery that will be caused by their habits today.

It's different from people who smoke cigarettes because the great advantage of global warming is that it won't affect us. It will affect future generations -- who are people we've never even met. That makes it much easier to say, "Screw them. I'm going to get mine while the getting is good." It's running up a national debt of not trillions, but hundreds of trillions of dollars, and leaving it for people in the future to pay.


I disagree with your comparison to cigarette smokers, because while cigarette smoking does not increase our life expectancy, our burning of fossil fuels certainly does increase our life expectancy. It lets us survive the cold winter. It lets us transport huge amounts of food from the farms to the cities. It powers our health care facilities. It lets us light our homes at night without the risk of burning our homes down. It has caused a huge increase in our life expectancy.

The people of the future will worry about global warming about as much as the people of today worry about horse poop in their cities. Just as the mass production of the automobile solved the horse poop problem, technological advances will solve the global warming problem.

If today's doomsayers had been alive in the 17th century, perhaps they would have tried to conserve the world's supply of candle wax, so that the people of the future would be able to light their homes at night.

In the future, no one will worry about horse poop, or about running out of candle wax, or about global warming. Whatever it is that the people of the future will be worrying about will be completely different than anything that we worry about today, and will probably be based on technologies that have not even been invented yet.

Psi 02-14-19 12:49 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by grundle (Post 13500641)
Just as the mass production of the automobile solved the horse poop problem, technological advances will solve the global warming problem.

Not when the technology leader is Trump, who is a total idiot and has an army of idiot followers. The only thing they produce is horse poop. You can see it on this forum.

Draven 02-14-19 01:02 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 13500781)
Not when the technology leader is Trump, who is a total idiot and has an army of idiot followers. The only thing they produce is horse poop. You can see it on this forum.

Exactly. Trump literally does not believe in science. Yet he's going to lead our country to a bright future? :lol:

Psi 02-14-19 01:34 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Despite Trump, McConnell, Rand Paul and their horse poop...


Despite pressure from Trump, coal-fueled power plants to shutter in Kentucky, Tennessee


An independent federal agency announced that it would close two coal plants, including one that buys its fuel from one of President Donald Trump's campaign contributors, despite public pressure from the president to keep it open.

The Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) said Thursday that it had decided to close two outdated coal plants over the next few years, including one in Kentucky that bought much of its fuel from Murray Energy. That company is owned by Robert Murray, a generous supporter of the president...

The decision came despite Republican politicians, including Sens. Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul of Kentucky, urging to keep the plants open.

The president entered the fray over the potential closure on Monday, stating on Twitter that TVA needed to “give serious consideration to all factors before voting to close viable power plants, like Paradise #3 in Kentucky...”

Murray is a prolific donor to Republican causes through the Murray Energy Corporation Political Action Committee. The group donated nearly $350,000 in the 2016 election to Republican causes, including $100,000 to the Trump Victory Super PAC, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

grundle 02-15-19 10:12 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 13500781)

Originally Posted by grundle
Just as the mass production of the automobile solved the horse poop problem, technological advances will solve the global warming problem.

Not when the technology leader is Trump, who is a total idiot and has an army of idiot followers. The only thing they produce is horse poop. You can see it on this forum.


Mass production of the automobile was done by the private sector, not the government.



Originally Posted by Draven (Post 13500803)
Exactly. Trump literally does not believe in science. Yet he's going to lead our country to a bright future? :lol:


I never look to politicians to lead our country to a brighter future.

Paff 02-15-19 10:16 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
If there were executives running a multi-billion dollar horse poop business, you can be damn sure there wouldn't have been automobiles. That's why the government needs to step in.

Josh-da-man 02-15-19 11:34 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Paff (Post 13501284)
If there were executives running a multi-billion dollar horse poop business,

​​​​​​​

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...8d64c25f5.jpeg

Paff 02-15-19 12:26 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Well, I was more thinking along these lines:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...a462b04595.png

But yeah, your answer works as well.

Psi 02-15-19 12:39 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
^ But, but, who owned the horses, private sector or government? Who owned the horse poop? Who owned the flooded homes? The flooded country?

Psi 02-15-19 09:38 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 13498881)
One of the hilariously dumb things Ben Shapiro said was along the lines of: IF global warming is really a threat, and the seas rise five or even ten feet, then no big deal! People can just sell their homes (homes that are or will be submerged under 10 feet of water permanently :lol:) and move inland!

I was sent this web site that maps out the flooding level projected for many coastal cities if global warming reaches certain level: Surging Seas: Sea level rise analysis by Climate Central

The image below shows 2 scenarios for Seattle. On the left is a map for 3C warming (expected if we stay on the course), and the right is for a 1.5C rise (target set by the Paris climate change agreement). The bad news is that a lot of Seattle downtown will be flooded, but the good news is that there remains a lot of land for the people affected to move to. We did a map of Seattle because we have family and friends there, but you can use the mapping tool for other cities as well.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...e159f9eee7.jpg

Psi 02-17-19 07:36 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Bill Gates is forming a new energy partnership with the European Commission. I wonder why he is not doing that in the U.S. Maybe it's because our President doesn't believe in climate change. Or Gates doesn't love the country. Or Trump is a dumbass.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/My...climate-change


Personally, I’m part of a group of investors in a private fund called Breakthrough Energy Ventures (BEV), which is putting more than $1 billion into helping promising companies take great ideas from the lab to market at scale. We’re using the five grand challenges I mentioned above as the framework for our investments. Every idea we’re supporting is designed to solve one of them—and our mission is about to get a big boost from a new partnership in Europe.

I’ll be in Brussels this week to sign an agreement between Breakthrough Energy and the European Commission. Our goal is to create a joint investment vehicle called Breakthrough Energy Europe, which will serve as a pilot fund investing in European companies working on the grand challenges. The partners will commit €100 million, half from the European Commission and half from BEV...

That’s where this partnership can shine. It allows the European Commission, which is funding cutting-edge research and development, to partner with investors who know how to build companies well. Because the fund will be privately managed, it can avoid some of the bureaucracy that slows things down and makes it hard to support new companies. We’ll have the resources to make a meaningful difference, and the flexibility to move quickly. That’s a rare combination.

Psi 02-22-19 01:34 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
The White House is thinking about having William Happer lead a WH Climate Change panel.


Watch this video: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...k-in-politics/

0:20: Climate change tremendously exaggerated, a cult movement.
0:30: Rise of carbon dioxide is beneficial. He must have read it here on DVDTalk.
0:45: Carbon dioxide has been demonized like the Jews under Hitler. Yes, he really said that.

Not only do criminals attract criminals, but dumb asses also attract dumb asses.

Dan 02-22-19 06:15 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Psi (Post 13501645)
I was sent this web site that maps out the flooding level projected for many coastal cities if global warming reaches certain level: Surging Seas: Sea level rise analysis by Climate Central

The image below shows 2 scenarios for Seattle. On the left is a map for 3C warming (expected if we stay on the course), and the right is for a 1.5C rise (target set by the Paris climate change agreement). The bad news is that a lot of Seattle downtown will be flooded, but the good news is that there remains a lot of land for the people affected to move to. We did a map of Seattle because we have family and friends there, but you can use the mapping tool for other cities as well.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...e159f9eee7.jpg

that's interesting. It doesn't look like a whole lot of land to lose, but think how many buildings/homes/whatever are all in there. Maybe putting it into perspective in terms of the dollar amount would be more effective? I'm not sure. I imagine something like the above would result in tens of billions of dollars (hundreds of billions even?) in relocation costs.


Anyway, on a different note. Looks like everyone's ready to cancel Diane Feinstein.


Draven 02-22-19 06:23 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by grundle (Post 13501279)
I never look to politicians to lead our country to a brighter future.

You don't look to our leaders to...lead?

Dan 02-22-19 06:48 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
"libertarians"

Psi 02-22-19 08:04 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 13505317)
that's interesting. It doesn't look like a whole lot of land to lose, but think how many buildings/homes/whatever are all in there. Maybe putting it into perspective in terms of the dollar amount would be more effective? I'm not sure. I imagine something like the above would result in tens of billions of dollars (hundreds of billions even?) in relocation costs.



I think the mapping tool takes the ocean water rise projected for each level of global warming. and applies that to topographic maps of coastal cities to show which areas would be affected by flood. For Seattle, even though it's not a huge area, that's a big chunk of downtown, and it would affect a lot of businesses and homes. Not enough to doom the Earth and humanity, but there would be big economic costs, especially after you do similar analyses to all coastal cities around the world. There is still plenty of land for Ben Shapiro to move to, though.

I think Feinstein mishandled her meeting with the students, but personally I hate the Green New Deal. It's not totally wrong, but it's just an aspirational statement with no meat to it, and it dilutes the message. People supporting actions to fight climate change should get behind the Paris Agreement, and push for policies and laws to further those goals. We don't need another thing to distract, especially now that it has the smell of AOC.

Psi 02-23-19 11:34 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Australian rat went extinct because it was too dumb to move to higher ground or emigrate to the U.S. First mammal known to go extinct because of climate change. Oh well, it's only a rat. We have plenty more.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mal-extinction



Australia dropped the Bramble Cay melomys from its endangered list, among unprecedented heat and coral die-off

By Eric Roston
February 20, 2019, 1:59 PM CST

Climate change officially killed off its first mammalian species earlier this week, when Australia’s environment minister moved a small coast-dwelling rodent from the endangered to the extinct list.

The Bramble Cay melomys made its home on an island in the Torres Strait between Australia and Papua New Guinea. Both sea levels and water temperatures in the region are rising faster than many species are comfortable with.

Extinction is a process, rather than a singular event. It takes time for science to demonstrate that something that was once there is no longer. The Bramble Cay melomys was first declared endangered by Queensland in 1992 and by the Commonwealth in 1999. The state determined the rodent was extinct in 2016 and further investigation led the Commonwealth on Monday to agree.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...f2a19de3fc.jpg

WCChiCubsFan 02-23-19 10:04 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 13505317)
Anyway, on a different note. Looks like everyone's ready to cancel Diane Feinstein.

https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1099076130089459712

I watched the unedited version of the video and it paints a different picture of the exchange.

WATCH: Full Video of Exchange Between Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Young Environmental Activists

I have to give Senator Feinstein credit for engaging with the students and having a thoughtful discussion.

Psi 03-04-19 02:13 PM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
How Copenhagen, a city of 600,000 residents, plans to be totally carbon-neutral by 2025. That's 25 years earlier than the goal set by a carbon-neutral alliance to which they belong. And no, they don't plan to give up heating, cooling, transportation or electricity, but they are not exactly sitting there doing nothing.



Psi 03-20-19 02:23 AM

Re: The One and Only Global Warming Thread, Part 11 (CO2 Kills 10 Billion People Edition)
 
Floods in the Midwest influenced by climate change? How can that be, since only ocean water is supposed to rise, and only by a few inches? But there is good news:
- Growing season is getting longer in Canada.
- Nobody died, and we didn't go extinct.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...action-n985051

Midwest voters in Trump country face historic floods and call for climate action
Farm groups say the situation is worse than ever and that's causing pain in states that flipped from Obama to Trump.


La CROSSE, Wis. — In two states that flipped from Democratic to Republican in the 2016 presidential race, the devastating floods are focusing voter's attention on climate change — and both parties' response to it.

"My big concern is the environment," said Amy Bouska, a retired actuary, at a town hall event for Rep. Amy Finkenauer, a freshman Democrat from eastern Iowa. "People know that the Canadians are clearing land to plant corn."

As midwestern states grapple with historic flooding that is devastating communities and threatening crop rotations and livestock, some voters are demanding action on what they see as the cause: climate change and more extreme weather patterns.

This year, as Nebraska, Iowa and Wisconsin begin their annual thaw, a flash of warm weather, combined with unusually high snowmelt, is making it difficult for the land to dispose of the winter's water. And that's causing pain in parts of the country that delivered the presidency to Donald Trump.

Cut rows of corn stand in a March mix of slush and mud, with water pooling just about anywhere that's flat. Rivers and streams have crested and may rise yet again.

Farm groups say that it's worse than in the past.


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