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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

View Poll Results: What % of self-identified Republicans are aware of Obamacare's conservative roots?
0 to 25% 51 77.27%
26 to 50% 5 7.58%
51 to 75% 0 0%
76 to 100% 10 15.15%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-31-11, 02:01 PM   #26
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Obama was meeting with the pharma execs, hospital corp execs, and medical equip manufacturing execs just after he won. He was assuring them their names would not come in the 'reform' before he was even inaugurated. He would demonize insurance companies and make them a fortune when all was said and done. As each aspect of the 'reform' was made public insurance company stocks went higher, in the middle of a recession no less. There was/is no mystery as to what was going on.

Since those three groups - pharma, hospital, equipment - are where the 'high cost' stuff lies, only an idiot would think Obama or Pelosi were even mildly interested in addressing costs.

It should be called 'Pelosicare' or 'Congresscare' anyway, the only thing Obama wrote that year was a children's book. He shoved the whole thing off on them to construct, probably because he's such a lightweight he wouldn't have been able to contribute without revealing his 'experience' anyway.
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Old 01-31-11, 02:04 PM   #27
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

No story yet, but from CNN.com's main page:

Quote:
A federal judge in Florida has struck down as unconstitutional key parts of the sweeping health care reform bill.
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Old 01-31-11, 02:27 PM   #28
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
The full text of the decision from Federal Judge Roger Vinson is not available yet, but according to reporters who've seen the decision, he's ruled the entire Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act unconstitutional. The ruling favors of the 26 state attorney generals challenging the law. The judge ruled the individual mandate that requires all Americans to purchase health insurance invalid and, according to the decision, "because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void."

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/blogs/belt...#ixzz1Ce9pfHwW
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Old 01-31-11, 03:23 PM   #29
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Doubt any of it means anything until it gets to the SCOTUS.

Be nice to get rid of the whole thing this way rather than have to worry about a repeal. I like this kind of judicial activism.
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Old 01-31-11, 04:50 PM   #30
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
Obama was meeting with the pharma execs, hospital corp execs, and medical equip manufacturing execs just after he won. He was assuring them their names would not come in the 'reform' before he was even inaugurated. He would demonize insurance companies and make them a fortune when all was said and done. As each aspect of the 'reform' was made public insurance company stocks went higher, in the middle of a recession no less. There was/is no mystery as to what was going on.

Since those three groups - pharma, hospital, equipment - are where the 'high cost' stuff lies, only an idiot would think Obama or Pelosi were even mildly interested in addressing costs.

It should be called 'Pelosicare' or 'Congresscare' anyway, the only thing Obama wrote that year was a children's book. He shoved the whole thing off on them to construct, probably because he's such a lightweight he wouldn't have been able to contribute without revealing his 'experience' anyway.
Don't for get Doctor Costs!!

Without a doubt the biggest factor in insurance rates is paying claims. To really have an impact on premiums something would have to be done about claim payments.
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Old 01-31-11, 04:56 PM   #31
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Well....I don't know. This judge make WAY to much sense!

"Vinson said it is, writing in his 78-page ruling that if the government can require people to buy health insurance, it could also regulate food the same way."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110131/...th_overhaul_12
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Old 01-31-11, 06:36 PM   #32
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Doubt I'll get around to reading every word, but some really interesting notes. This one caught my eye.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3174287/Opinion%20-%202.pdf

30
On this point, it should be emphasized that while the individual mandate
was clearly “necessary and essential” to the Act as drafted, it is not “necessary
and essential” to health care reform in general. It is undisputed that there are
various other (Constitutional) ways to accomplish what Congress wanted to do.
Indeed, I note that in 2008, then-Senator Obama supported a health care reform
proposal that did not include an individual mandate because he was at that time
strongly opposed to the idea, stating that "if a mandate was the solution, we can
try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house.”
See
Interview on CNN’s American Morning, Feb. 5, 2008, transcript available at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...05/ltm.02.html. In fact, he pointed
to the similar individual mandate in Massachusetts --- which was imposed under the
state’s police power, a power the federal government does not have --- and opined
that the mandate there left some residents “worse off” than they had been before.
See Christopher Lee, Simple Question Defines Complex Health Debate, Washington
Post, Feb. 24, 2008, at A10 (quoting Senator Obama as saying: "In some cases,
there are people [in Massachusetts] who are paying fines and still can't afford
[health insurance], so now they're worse off than they were . . . They don't have
health insurance, and they're paying a fine . . .”)
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Old 01-31-11, 06:49 PM   #33
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

But hey, the government should be able to do that under the commerce clause.
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Old 01-31-11, 07:23 PM   #34
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Decision can be read here.
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Old 01-31-11, 07:33 PM   #35
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by wishbone View Post
Decision can be read here.
Didn't like my link???
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Old 01-31-11, 07:45 PM   #36
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Didn't like my link???
Sorry, thought it was an opinion and not the decision.
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Old 01-31-11, 11:01 PM   #37
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

So Florida's case is the one most likely to go to the SCOTUS? Curious what Kennedy would do.
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Old 02-01-11, 09:11 AM   #38
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

What other choice did Congress have if the public option was off the table? Any sort of reform was hamstrung by not budging on that piece.
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Old 02-01-11, 11:08 AM   #39
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

And if you couldn't get a public option with 60 seats in the Senate and a majority in the House, I don't think you are getting it any time soon.
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Old 02-01-11, 11:21 AM   #40
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

...and if you have Republicans control both houses, and Democrats control both houses, and they both keep trying to make the health care corporations even richer at a faster rate, then you're fooling yourself about any type of 'reform' or cost cutting being something either party is interested in.

Amazing anyone would be sucker enough to believe 'their' party is just 'fighting to make it better' but it's those 'other' bastards who keep messing it up.
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Old 02-01-11, 11:24 AM   #41
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Damn activist judges. Oh wait, he made a decision that conservatives agree with? In that case, he's a fair, wise, and unbiased jurist!
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Old 02-01-11, 01:23 PM   #42
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Okay, so Red Dog (presumably), what happens now. Seems like the last decisions said the rest of the bill could go forward while the mandate couldn't. But this one seems to indicate (if I read correctly) that it is now dead, pending appeal to the SCOTUS, which would likely take over a year.

So if it is currently not a law, can congress even fund any of it? Do insurance companies have to continue to let 26 year olds be on their parents' policy? Does all of it simply cease to be until appeal? If so, what is the likeliest scenario of what happens.
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Old 02-01-11, 01:24 PM   #43
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
...and if you have Republicans control both houses, and Democrats control both houses, and they both keep trying to make the health care corporations even richer at a faster rate, then you're fooling yourself about any type of 'reform' or cost cutting being something either party is interested in.

Amazing anyone would be sucker enough to believe 'their' party is just 'fighting to make it better' but it's those 'other' bastards who keep messing it up.
Wait a minute....so if you have both parties control both houses?
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Old 02-01-11, 01:35 PM   #44
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Dammit!

I coulda fought betta Howard...
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Old 02-02-11, 10:14 AM   #45
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I believe the Senate votes today on repeal - not certain though.

It will be interesting how many Democrats vote for repeal & how many Republicans vote no.
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Old 02-02-11, 10:36 AM   #46
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

So they vote to repeal a law that has been found to be unconstitutional and void?
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Old 02-02-11, 10:42 AM   #47
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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So they vote to repeal a law that has been found to be unconstitutional and void?
It hasn't been ultimately found to be unconstitutional. SCOTUS will make that decision.
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Old 02-02-11, 10:55 AM   #48
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I hope so.
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Old 02-02-11, 10:55 AM   #49
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

With all due deference to separation of powers, that could bode poorly for next year's State of the Union address.
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Old 02-02-11, 11:12 AM   #50
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Debate is rather heated in the Senate with each side calling (or at the very least, implying) that the other side is lying.

What was funny, at least to me, was when Sen. Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, pleaded for the other side to stick to the facts - implying that his side was saying only things that were factual - smiling all the time.
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