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Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Old 12-13-10, 03:15 PM
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Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45352.html

That would be a complete nightmare if we had American troops in Mexico.


Perry, the incoming chairman of the Republican Governors Association, told MSNBC on Thursday morning that while Mexico would “obviously” have to approve any American assistance, military might is needed to defeat the drug cartels that have stymied Mexican authorities. And he pegged decreased border violence as a prerequisite for any successful immigration reform push in Washington.

“I think we have to use every aspect of law enforcement that we have, including the military,” Perry said. “Any means that we can [use] to run these people off our border and to save Americans’ lives, we need to be engaged in.”
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Old 12-13-10, 04:24 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Perry, the incoming chairman of the Republican Governors Association, told MSNBC on Thursday morning that while Mexico would “obviously” have to approve any American assistance, military might is needed to defeat the drug cartels that have stymied Mexican authorities. And he pegged decreased border violence as a prerequisite for any successful immigration reform push in Washington.

“I think we have to use every aspect of law enforcement that we have, including the military,” Perry said. “Any means that we can [use] to run these people off our border and to save Americans’ lives, we need to be engaged in.”

Legalize it stupid. The market will do what no amount of force can.
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Old 12-13-10, 06:27 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
Legalize it stupid. The market will do what no amount of force can.
Cocaine?
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Old 12-13-10, 06:59 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Cocaine?
Yes please!
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Old 12-14-10, 02:22 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Cocaine?
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Old 12-14-10, 08:23 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Cocaine?


Cocaine.
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Old 12-14-10, 09:30 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Cocaine?
Yes, it used to be legal. Alcohol is legal and, amazingly enough, not everyone is an alcoholic. Why, do you think if it was legal the world would go all Tony Montana?
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Old 12-14-10, 11:32 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

It would be interesting, from a propaganda in US society standpoint, if we do send troops to Mexico to fight the criminals we created and made rich by our corrupt 'drug war'. I would love to see how far the thoughtless masses can be lead around by the nose on this whole 'drug war' thing, even under that circumstance.

I mean, considering Prohibition already makes the case in whole, it's absolutely a testament to the inestimable power of propaganda to shape what people will believe that the 'drug war' has lasted this long at such an incredible cost to every citizen. I suspect they could take it up another huge notch and the mindless 'average American' would think that's a good thing too: to prevent the evil alcohol, I mean drugs, and its evil affects on the society.

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Old 12-14-10, 01:57 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

This sums up the drug war nicely.

Det. Ellis Carver: What he means to say is that we are effective deterrent in the war on drugs when we are on the street.
Det. Thomas Hauk: Fucking motherfuckers up.
Det. Ellis Carver: Indeed.
Det. Thomas Hauk: Fuck the paperwork. Collect bodies, split heads.
Det. Ellis Carver: Split 'em wide.
Det. Thomas Hauk: The Western District way.
Det. Ellis Carver: A'ight.
Shakima Greggs: You rogue motherfuckers kill me. Fighting the war on drugs, one brutality case at a time.
Det. Ellis Carver: You can't even call this shit a war.
Det. Thomas Hauk: Why not?
Det. Ellis Carver: Wars end.
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Old 12-14-10, 06:39 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
Yes, it used to be legal. Alcohol is legal and, amazingly enough, not everyone is an alcoholic. Why, do you think if it was legal the world would go all Tony Montana?
Should every drug be legalized? I don't care either way, honestly.
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Old 12-15-10, 08:10 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Should every drug be legalized? I don't care either way, honestly.
No!

We would have rampant crime and corruption, and lots of addiction problems if they were legal.
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Old 12-15-10, 10:33 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Should every drug be legalized? I don't care either way, honestly.
Yes. In an environment where safer drugs like cannabis, MDMA, or mushrooms are freely available, few people would have an interest in getting involved with methamphetamine or other, more dangerous drugs, even if they were also freely available. Futhermore, if we actually educated people about the real effects of these and other drugs and how to use them in the safest ways, people would generally make more informed decisions. Note the enormous decline in cigarette usage over the last 40 years.

Of course, in practice it would never be so clean and simple. But generally it would be a much better situation than at present.
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Old 12-15-10, 10:44 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
No!

We would have rampant crime and corruption, and lots of addiction problems if they were legal.
Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
Yes. In an environment where safer drugs like cannabis, MDMA, or mushrooms are freely available, few people would have an interest in getting involved with methamphetamine or other, more dangerous drugs, even if they were also freely available. Futhermore, if we actually educated people about the real effects of these and other drugs and how to use them in the safest ways, people would generally make more informed decisions. Note the enormous decline in cigarette usage over the last 40 years.

Of course, in practice it would never be so clean and simple. But generally it would be a much better situation than at present.
I agree.
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Old 12-15-10, 10:45 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico



Nice.
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Old 12-15-10, 11:30 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
We would have rampant crime and corruption, and lots of addiction problems if they were legal.
I can't tell if you serious or not, but

We currently have rampant crime and corruption, and lots of addiction problems when they are illegal. Clearly, what we are trying is not working, but we know from our own history that legalization and control work better than prohibition. Does no one remember 1919-1933?
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Old 12-15-10, 11:47 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

If drugs aren't legalized in Europe, then they never will be here.
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Old 12-15-10, 12:09 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
If drugs aren't legalized in Europe, then they never will be here.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080
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Old 12-15-10, 03:52 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by aintnosin View Post
I can't tell if you serious or not, but

We currently have rampant crime and corruption, and lots of addiction problems when they are illegal. Clearly, what we are trying is not working, but we know from our own history that legalization and control work better than prohibition. Does no one remember 1919-1933?
I was not being serious. What you mention here and much more was present/implied in my sarcasm.

Arminus knew that when he agreed.
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Old 12-15-10, 04:05 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
Yes. In an environment where safer drugs like cannabis, MDMA, or mushrooms are freely available, few people would have an interest in getting involved with methamphetamine or other, more dangerous drugs, even if they were also freely available.
how does that logic work? "safer" drugs are illegal now just like the harder drugs yet people still use the harder drugs. why would people opt for safer drugs if they were both legal?
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Old 12-15-10, 04:11 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

All I know is something is going to have to change one way or another. Mexico is getting closer to being a failed state every day with the amount of power the drug cartels gain and the violence they bring.
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Old 12-15-10, 04:22 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Since the US basically bribed President Calderón of Mexico into declaring a drug war just a few years ago, they are more than half way to our entire death toll in the Vietnam War.

Amazing.
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Old 12-15-10, 06:50 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
how does that logic work? "safer" drugs are illegal now just like the harder drugs yet people still use the harder drugs. why would people opt for safer drugs if they were both legal?
I don't think that's the point. Some people seem to think if drugs are legalized and regulated like alcohol everybody would be an addict in 20 minutes. Why would that be? And for your question I knew some city cops that would only do heroin and not smoke pot. Because pot stays in your system too long and random testing will get you. But heroin , not so much.
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Old 12-15-10, 09:47 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
I don't think that's the point. Some people seem to think if drugs are legalized and regulated like alcohol everybody would be an addict in 20 minutes. Why would that be?
Because drugs like cocaine are wildly addictive?

And for your question I knew some city cops that would only do heroin and not smoke pot. Because pot stays in your system too long and random testing will get you. But heroin, not so much.
That doesn't really answer the question.

oh well. I guess we'll never come to terms with how to regulate drugs safely, and why the drug war should be abolished.
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Old 12-15-10, 10:11 PM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

I should say that although I think the drug war should be abolished, I don't favor immediate legalization or decriminalization. I don't have opposition to drug use - but it's clear that when drugs were widely available, addiction was a major problem. Huge numbers of people became addicted to morphine after its widespread medical use. Even today it presents a serious medical compromise - the drugs are usually only administers as a last resort.

The real problem underlying our management of drug use is that we don't really have a "culture" of drug use. Coffee, for example, is the most widely used drug, but the social aspects supersede the pharmacological attraction. The social aspects of tobacco and alcohol use are also what moderate abuse.

Now looking at other cultures, there are behaviors and rituals that seem abhorrent and completely alien to Western sensibilities. In European cultures, it's been a long-standing tradition to give alcohol to minors. In the presence of their family and friends, the use of alcohol has more of a ritualistic and social aspect than could ever be attained in the US. The same goes for Native American cultures that use Peyote - it's a rite of passage and a ritual that's shared with family and community. Can you imagine sitting down with your parents and smoking weed together? Thus, we have a breakdown of the fundamental societal dictum of behavior - family bonding.
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Old 12-16-10, 08:37 AM
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Re: Gov Perry: We may need troops in Mexico

yes lets legalize mushrooms. just what we need, highways full of people tripping and texting at the same time.
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