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"The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

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"The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Old 12-03-10, 07:20 AM
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"The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/op...29douthat.html

In the 1990s, many Democrats embraced Bill Clinton’s wars of choice in the Balkans and accepted his encroachments on civil liberties following the Oklahoma City bombing, while many Republicans tilted noninterventionist and libertarian. If Al Gore had been president on 9/11, this pattern might have persisted, with conservatives resisting the Patriot Act the way they’ve rallied against the T.S.A.’s Rapiscan technology, and Vice President Joe Lieberman prodding his fellow Democrats in a more Cheney-esque direction on detainee policy.

But because a Republican was president instead, conservative partisans suppressed their libertarian impulses and accepted the logic of an open-ended war on terror, while Democratic partisans took turns accusing the Bush administration of shredding the Constitution.

Now that a Democrat is in the White House, the pendulum is swinging back. In 2006, Gallup asked the public whether the government posed an “immediate threat” to Americans. Only 21 percent of Republicans agreed, versus 57 percent of Democrats. In 2010, they asked again. This time, 21 percent of Democrats said yes, compared with 66 percent of Republicans.

In other words, millions of liberals can live with indefinite detention for accused terrorists and intimate body scans for everyone else, so long as a Democrat is overseeing them. And millions of conservatives find wartime security measures vastly more frightening when they’re pushed by Janet “Big Sis” Napolitano (as the Drudge Report calls her) rather than a Republican like Tom Ridge.
I'm sure this falls under the "no shit, sherlock" file, but I like reading about how people on either side completely swap positions on certain issues when the White House changes hands.

I'd also be willing to bet that liberals will see this article as an attack on liberals, and conservatives will see this article as an attack on conservatives.
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Old 12-03-10, 08:01 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

"Partisanship is our great curse. We too readily assume that everything has two sides and that it is our duty to be on one or the other." - James Harvey Robinson
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Old 12-03-10, 08:07 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

"whether the government posed an immediate threat to Americans"

"Immediate threat" meaning what? If the gallop poll question is that vague, then yes, I can see Democrats or Republicans swinging both ways depending on who the President is.

If, for example, the poll said "Immediate threat of taking away your civil liberties", then that would be a more telling example of the partisan mind.
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Old 12-03-10, 08:16 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I'm sure this falls under the "no shit, sherlock" file, but I like reading about how people on either side completely swap positions on certain issues when the White House changes hands.
The clearest evidence of this was on public opinion on Ben Bernanke, since his tenure as Fed chair has spanned administrations. When Bush was president, bernanke was popular with Republicans and unpopular with Democrats. As soon as Obama took office that changed.

So, as you say, it's nothing new or groundbreaking, but it's amazing to see it happen.
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Old 12-03-10, 09:51 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Americans are like cheerleaders on the sidelines of a game. It's ridiculous.

FWIW, my argument against the Patriot Act was exactly the reason above. If I wouldn't trust the opposing party with the power, my party shouldn't have that power either.
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Old 12-03-10, 10:45 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
Americans are like cheerleaders on the sidelines of a game. It's ridiculous.

FWIW, my argument against the Patriot Act was exactly the reason above. If I wouldn't trust the opposing party with the power, my party shouldn't have that power either.
Are you really saying that you trust the Republicans to not abuse the Patriot Act, but not the Democrats? That's exactly the mindset that this thread is about...

You really shouldn't trust the government with that power, period.
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Old 12-03-10, 10:53 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

This is most telling whenever there's a scandal involving a politician that has nothing to do with politics or policy (like a sex scandal). Whenever one of these breaks:

1. The news story about the scandal will warrant it's own thread on this forum. It will ALWAYS be started from somebody from the opposing party.

2. The opposing party will vilify the politician, while those on the same side will rush to his or her defense: "Let's wait until all the facts are in", "Boys will be boys", etc.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:17 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Are you really saying that you trust the Republicans to not abuse the Patriot Act, but not the Democrats?
No, she's saying the opposite.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:20 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
No, she's saying the opposite.
Doesn't seem that way to me, but maybe she will clarify her statement.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:20 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
This is most telling whenever there's a scandal involving a politician that has nothing to do with politics or policy (like a sex scandal). Whenever one of these breaks:

1. The news story about the scandal will warrant it's own thread on this forum. It will ALWAYS be started from somebody from the opposing party.

2. The opposing party will vilify the politician, while those on the same side will rush to his or her defense: "Let's wait until all the facts are in", "Boys will be boys", etc.
There was something on the daily show a while back showing congressional reaction to two different sex scandals. For the republican scandal, house democrats were calling for a full scale investigation and house republicans wanted to deal with it themselves. Then for the democrat scandal the exact same people took the exact opposite position, even using the same language the other side used in the other scandal.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:27 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Doesn't seem that way to me, but maybe she will clarify her statement.
I took it as some type of litmus test. When the government expands its power, even if you think that expansion of power is a good thing under present circumstances, ask yourself if you'd still be comfortable with the other side having that power. If you wouldn't be comfortable with the other side having that power, you shouldn't support your own side having that power.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:28 AM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Doesn't seem that way to me, but maybe she will clarify her statement.
Maybe it's more subtle. It could be something like, "I don't trust X party with that power, so, while I might not think so, Y party probably isn't trustworthy either."
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Old 12-03-10, 12:01 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Maybe it's more subtle. It could be something like, "I don't trust X party with that power, so, while I might not think so, Y party probably isn't trustworthy either."
Could be. I didn't get much sleep last night so I may have misinterpretated what she said.
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Old 12-03-10, 12:02 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

"Misinterpretated". Good job there.
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Old 12-03-10, 12:11 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

The whole cheerleader/sports fan approach to politics that so many practice is beyond sad.
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Old 12-03-10, 12:13 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
"Misinterpretated". Good job there.
The Bard of Brooklyn.
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Old 12-03-10, 01:08 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Are you really saying that you trust the Republicans to not abuse the Patriot Act, but not the Democrats? That's exactly the mindset that this thread is about...

You really shouldn't trust the government with that power, period.
It is easier to explain it to most people as 'bite presented it though.
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Old 12-03-10, 01:23 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

If Obama is president when the US gets involved in the next foreign war, or "conflict," will the anti-war voice be as loud as it was during the Bush presidency?

Were people anti-Bush because they were anti-war? Or were they anti-war because they were anti-Bush?
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Old 12-03-10, 07:19 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

I'm a republican but I'm open minded. I knew the stepped up TSA procedures were bullshit in 2002 and they're bullshit now. I resisted them then and anyone pissed about pat downs and x rays today is a bandwagon jumper.
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Old 12-03-10, 10:12 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I took it as some type of litmus test. When the government expands its power, even if you think that expansion of power is a good thing under present circumstances, ask yourself if you'd still be comfortable with the other side having that power. If you wouldn't be comfortable with the other side having that power, you shouldn't support your own side having that power.
Thanks for clarifying it perfectly!
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Old 12-03-10, 10:21 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
The whole cheerleader/sports fan approach to politics that so many practice is beyond sad.
Agreed. I just cannot convince myself that one side is always right and the other is always wrong... apparently it's not a problem for a lot of people though.
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Old 12-03-10, 11:16 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

I think ultimately the majority of people don't form their own opinions, they look to propaganda to tell them what to think.

The night and day switches by politicians are one thing - about money, power, and party - but in the public it's mostly because the various pundits and 'news' outlets of either ideology tell them what to think and they dutifully think it and consider themselves 'informed on the issues'. Hence the complete reversals of opinion on similar things.
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Old 12-04-10, 06:00 PM
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Re: "The Partisan Mind" - not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but pretty good read

I've heard some posters talk about how liberals are all about being emotional, like conservatives aren't or something. I think both are equally emotional, just on different issues.
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