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-   -   Maddow vs. Stewart (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/582009-maddow-vs-stewart.html)

jfoobar 11-13-10 10:33 PM

Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Ok, "Maddow vs. Stewart" makes it sound far more dramatic than it was. In fact, it was a very courteous conversation between two people who clearly like each other personally.

Stewart was not quite on top of his game, mentally, and let some thoughts trail off unfinished in places, but it is always (for me anyway) a pleasure to listen to the guy speak honestly without having to worry about how many laughs per minute he is scoring.

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All of them are also embedded on the following page over at The Blaze:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hone...rachel-maddow/

Or you can click through to Maddow's site where she also has one large video of the entire video (including some unaired segments) posted.

Th0r S1mpson 11-13-10 11:34 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Summary? Highlights? TV Guide?

mosquitobite 11-14-10 02:15 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Thanks jfoo - I enjoyed watching those!

brayzie 11-14-10 07:06 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Thanks for posting this. I watched the first 5 minutes and it's already pretty interesting.

Rachel Maddow referenced what Bill Maher said about the RALLY TO RESTORE SANITY announcment which was:

"Keith Olbermann is right when he says he's not the equivalent of Glenn Beck. One reports facts the other one is very close to playing with his poop. And the big mistake of modern media has been this notion of balance for balance's sake..."

At first I thought Maddow was smart to bring up Maher's point, but after thinking about it some more, it doesn't sounds so smart. I agree about proportionality but that can be very subjective due to the bias that's already there.

It's the same thing that goes on here. One person points to an example of a Republican doing something wrong, then another person will chime and say, "Yeah, but remember that Democrat before him? He did much worse."

It's always an excuse. As long as you can find a worse example it's okay for whatever it is your group is doing.

Just listening to Olbermann's rant about that Republican from Mass. does not sound like someone who just reports the facts. Yes, I think that Beck tops him by theorizing conspiracy theories, but again that's not a great measurement.

It's like Chris Brown saying, "Well, atleast I'm not Rick James..."

sracer 11-14-10 09:20 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by jfoobar (Post 10489320)
Ok, "Maddow vs. Stewart" makes it sound far more dramatic than it was. In fact, it was a very courteous conversation between two people who clearly like each other personally.

Stewart was not quite on top of his game, mentally, and let some thoughts trail off unfinished in places, but it is always (for me anyway) a pleasure to listen to the guy speak honestly without having to worry about how many laughs per minute he is scoring.

I though it was the best interview that I've seen on TV this year.

kvrdave 11-15-10 02:38 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10490476)
Rachel Maddow referenced what Bill Maher said about the RALLY TO RESTORE SANITY announcment which was:

"Keith Olbermann is right when he says he's not the equivalent of Glenn Beck. One reports facts the other one is very close to playing with his poop...."

But even Keith doesn't know which one of the two he is.

GreenMonkey 11-16-10 04:05 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Good interview. Watched the whole uncut one the other day. Thanks for posting it.

I think Stewart's point in hosting the rally was pretty clear. But Maher had a point, of sorts. I just don't think he was trying to have the kind of rally that Maher or even Maddow might have wanted.

VinVega 11-16-10 10:29 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
That was enjoyable to watch.

John's a smart man. He knows his niche and he's not about to change what's working for him.

He's not really a news man, but he does influence the dialog in some way.

classicman2 11-16-10 10:39 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
I only saw snippets of the interview.

I thought it was your standard interview. I guess I missed the spectacular segment(s). ;)

wm lopez 11-17-10 03:30 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey (Post 10493095)
Good interview. Watched the whole uncut one the other day. Thanks for posting it.

I think Stewart's point in hosting the rally was pretty clear. But Maher had a point, of sorts. I just don't think he was trying to have the kind of rally that Maher or even Maddow might have wanted.

The liberals had 2 rallies Stewart's with Ozzy and the union rally.
Conservatives had one and that one didn't mention politics.
When Nov.2 came it looks like the conservatives won.

brayzie 11-17-10 11:22 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
I finally watched all of the clips.

Something things that stuck out to me:

Maddow asserted that shows like Olbermann's were examples of the cable channel being courageous. Stewart said it was because FOX was kicking their ass in ratings. Then she countered, no, it's because Olbermann's show makes money.

Maddow also brought up an interesting point that atleast she and Olbermann occasionally disagree and criticize Democrats whereas FOX never does that to Republicans. I still think Stewart is right about the two networks though. FOX news is biased in favor of Republicans and MSNBC is biased in favor of liberals.

I thought Stewart for the most part was accurate in his assessment of cable news but I disagreed with him when he argued that he's less like Maddow and Olbermann, that he's more Jerry Seinfeld. I don't think it matters if he's on a cable channel, or a comedy channel. If people start relying on him for news, then he becomes something else, regardless of what he wants to portray himself as.

Count Dooku 11-18-10 12:19 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10496909)
I thought Stewart for the most part was accurate in his assessment of cable news but I disagreed with him when he argued that he's nothing like Maddow and Olbermann, that he's more Jerry Seinfeld. I don't think it matters if he's on a cable channel, or a comedy channel. If people start relying on him for news, then he becomes something else, regardless of what he wants to portray himself as.

The distinction that Stewart is making when differentiating himself from Olbermann (and people of his ilk) and likening himself to Seinfeld, is the difference between reporting and repeating the news.

When Jet Blue flight attendant Steven Slater dramatically quit his job by jumping out the emergency exit, all the late night hosts made jokes about it.
They all prefaced their jokes with something like: "Yesterday, a Jet Blue flight attendant quit his job by cussing out the passengers over the PA and then jumping out the emergency exit."
It might be the case that Jay Leno's monologue was the first you heard about that story, but do you really consider that Leno was reporting the news.

Jon Stewart's claim is that he doing the same thing. He is repeating the news to establish the premise of the jokes he is about to make.
People can truthfully claim they are getting the news from Stewart --just as people can truthfully claim that they've learned everything they know about airline food and NYC cabs from Jerry Seinfeld.
But if The Daily Show is your only source of news and information, then there something wrong with you, and Jon Stewart is not responsible for that.

The reason it matters that Stewart is on a comedy channel in contrast to Olbermann and Hannity, who are on news channels, is that Stewart does not have an atmosphere to effect with his commentary.
Fox News always defends itself from charges of bias by drawing a distinction between its commentators and its news reporters. Basically claiming that Sean Hannity is a commentator and that his ideologically biased opinions are (just that) opinions, and that has nothing to do with the "fair and balanced" news reporting that the channel offers.
Olbermann proclaims that his show offers news and commentary, often coming from the same source --his mouth.

Stewart's point is that as much as Fox News and MSNBC claim that there is a Chinese Wall between news and opinion, it isn't true.
When your channel's #1 show is someone offering ideologically biased commentary, and that leads to your channel filling its primetime with similar shows, then the atmosphere of your entire channel --even it's news reporting, is effected. And Stewart has done pieces demonstrating exactly how this works in practice.

Stewart doesn't deny that he is offering commentary, but he has no surrounding news operation to effect.

brayzie 11-18-10 12:44 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 10496994)

Jon Stewart's claim is that he doing the same thing. He is repeating the news to establish the premise of the jokes he is about to make.
People can truthfully claim they are getting the news from Stewart --just as people can truthfully claim that they've learned everything they know about airline food and NYC cabs from Jerry Seinfeld.

The difference is though ,that Jerry Seinfeld doesn't interview actual cab drivers or retell studies about airline food.


But if The Daily Show is your only source of news and information, then there something wrong with you, and Jon Stewart is not responsible for that.


You can make the argument that it's not FOX's fault people follow their commentators for news. It's incredibly obvious that FOX NEWS is severely biased with all the things they do. Yet, instead of people tuning out, more and more people tune in. It's the peoples fault for choosing to stay ignorant. But it's also irresponsible on the part of FOX, IMO.


The reason it matters that Stewart is on a comedy channel in contrast to Olbermann and Hannity, who are on news channels, is that Stewart does not have an atmosphere to effect with his commentary.
FOX NEWS can call itself a news channel, but I would view it more as propaganda for the Republican party. You can label yourself whatever you want, but if your actions are creating a different result than you expected than maybe you should take a more honest look at yourself.

Count Dooku 11-18-10 01:46 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 
Would you, or anyone, make the claim that the actual "news" information that Jon Stewart provides on his show is inaccurate?

Just like with the Jet Blue joke example, the "news" information provided to set up the jokes is true.

When Stewart repeats information about Obama's trip to India, that stuff is true.
That he follows that information up with jokes and commentary doesn't alter the truth of the information he has presented.
That he has Obama on the show as a guest doesn't alter the truth of the information Stewart presents as the foundation for his jokes and commentary.

I don't think that Jon Stewart would ever claim that people cannot watch his show and find out true information about the news of the day. But he would also very rightly claim that if those nuggets are all the news you are getting then there is something wrong with you. And Stewart will state it very plainly --whenever he is confronted with "Young people get there news from you" line-- THEY SHOULD NOT DO THAT.

I can make the argument that it is Fox News' fault when viewers follow their commentators for news for three reasons:
1) It's called Fox NEWS
2) Hannity et al present their shows as a mixture of news and commentary
3) The commentary bleeds all over (what they claim is) their objective reporting

Jon Stewart can go on The Daily Show and repeat actual "news" information about a scandal involving Politician X; then, make jokes about what a horrible hypocrite Politician X is; then, conclude with the opinion that Politician X should be strung up on the National Mall and stoned to death.

The difference is that Comedy Central's programming the next day WILL NOT ONCE present a straight news program that repeats Stewart's opinion --or has John Oliver on to second that opinion --or introduce a news story with the phrase: "People are saying that Politician X should be stoned to death".

Count Dooku 11-18-10 01:48 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10497028)
It's incredibly obvious that FOX NEWS is severely biased with all the things they do.

Obvious to you, but not to wm lopez

TheBigDave 11-18-10 02:03 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10496909)
Maddow also brought up an interesting point that atleast she and Olbermann occasionally disagree and criticize Democrats whereas FOX never does that to Republicans.

What exactly is their criticism of Democrats? That they're not far enough to the left? That they're unwilling to fight dirty like those fascist Republicans?

I've heard a lot of criticism on FNC for Bush and Republicans. They hated the Bush Immigration policy. Shep Smith was constantly riding him for Katrina. Republicans that voted for (or considered voting for) all the Stimulus spending and bailouts were raked across the coals. And I seem to recall a lot of criticism of Bush during the "wait and see" pre-surge period in Iraq.

There's no disagreement that FNC leans to the right. But they cater to their conservative viewers, not the Republican party.

Rockmjd23 11-18-10 02:06 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by TheBigDave (Post 10497083)
What exactly is their criticism of Democrats?

That their attack ads aren't strong enough. They didn't donate all that money for them to make wussy campaign ads!

Count Dooku 11-18-10 02:32 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by TheBigDave (Post 10497083)
What exactly is their criticism of Democrats?

They criticize Obama for his handling of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (especially Iraq).
They criticize Democrats for the health care reform.
They criticize Obama for his dealings with Wall Street financial institutions.
They criticize Democrats for continuation of DADT.
They criticize Obama and Democrats for policy stances concerning taxes.

brayzie 11-18-10 08:14 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 10497071)
The difference is that Comedy Central's programming the next day WILL NOT ONCE present a straight news program that repeats Stewart's opinion --or has John Oliver on to second that opinion --or introduce a news story with the phrase: "People are saying that Politician X should be stoned to death".


I agree that The Daily Show is not like the overall effect of editorial commentary shows + news. However, it's much closer to shows like Maddow and Beck, in style and influence that to that of Jerry Seinfeld.

Especially after seeing the Daily Show exposing deceit in programs like Hannity's, and doing serious interviews with the son of an arrested Iranian protester.

brayzie 11-18-10 08:15 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 10497075)
Obvious to you, but not to wm lopez

And it's even more obvious that the Daily Show is comedy to you and I, but not to those who consider Stewart the most trusted man in news.

Count Dooku 11-18-10 10:01 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10498512)
And it's even more obvious that the Daily Show is comedy to you and I, but not to those who consider Stewart the most trusted man in news.

The networks and the cable news channels should all be very embarrassed that the person so many people trust to tell them the truth about the news is someone who spends most of his time criticizing the media.

dhmac 11-18-10 10:21 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by TheBigDave (Post 10497083)
There's no disagreement that FNC leans to the right. But they cater to their conservative viewers, not the Republican party.

Hmmm, I can think of at least a million reasons that they cater to the Republican party.

.

brayzie 11-18-10 11:21 PM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 10498649)
The networks and the cable news channels should all be very embarrassed that the person so many people trust to tell them the truth about the news is someone who spends most of his time criticizing the media.

Regardless, if the Pew Research Center Poll is a good representation of the American public, it's a strong argument against his claim of being more like Jerry Seinfeld.

Count Dooku 11-19-10 12:44 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by brayzie (Post 10498768)
Regardless, if the Pew Research Center Poll is a good representation of the American public, it's a strong argument against his claim of being more like Jerry Seinfeld.

His claim of being like Seinfeld is a likening of their processes and intentions.

If some poll finds that people regard Stewart as a trustworthy journalist then it is a good representation of the American public because the majority of Americans are pretty stupid.

brayzie 11-19-10 02:40 AM

Re: Maddow vs. Stewart
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 10498876)
He is repeating the news to establish the premise of the jokes he is about to make.

Jon Stewart's interview with Ebrahim Yazdi's son

^I don't see that here.



Discussing Healthcare Reform w/ Bill Kristol at the 5 min mark
^When the issue of healthcare comes up it sounds more like something I would hear on Maddow's show.


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