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Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Old 11-06-10, 04:26 PM
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Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

seems like some people think it's hypocritical to be against government spending and be in favor of tax cuts.

Are tax cuts government spending?
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Old 11-06-10, 04:34 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

It's the game of politics. If you expect a COLA for your government department, or Social Security, etc. and don't get one, then it is a spending cut. If your budget is supposed to go from $100 billion to $110 billion and you "only get" $105 billion, then you've cut spending (in a draconian manner, even) by $5 billion. Obviously, if we got a salary to do the same thing, we'd call it a raise. If you take less of people's money, you have to "pay for it."

Just typical word scams that only exist in government gets to use in their "work."

Liberals have done an effective job with the lexicon in this regard.
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Old 11-06-10, 04:35 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

They are not, but cutting taxes cuts govt receipts and hurts the deficit, at least temporarily. Some say cutting the tax rate will increase revenue in the future.
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Old 11-06-10, 06:25 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

No, they are a lack of revenue. Next question.
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Old 11-06-10, 07:40 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
No, they are a lack of revenue. Next question.
Although in well-run government, they should be matched with a lack of spending. I recognize that "well run" government is a pretty alien and unnatural concept.
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Old 11-06-10, 07:44 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

It's absolutely hypercritical to scream about "fiscal responsibility" while demanding tax cuts with no equivalent spending cuts.
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Old 11-06-10, 08:24 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
It's absolutely hypercritical to scream about "fiscal responsibility" while demanding tax cuts with no equivalent spending cuts.
hypocritical?

Starve the beast.

The only way the sheeple will allow most "cuts" is if the money simply isn't there. We all see in hindsight how idiotic governments acted while the money was pouring in. This economy has opened up the books for a good hard look.

"But but but think of the chiiiiildren" isn't going to work right now. (thank goodness)
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Old 11-06-10, 08:27 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

If there are no spending cuts, you aren't starving the beast because the debt ceiling is never going to be voted as static. All you've done is added the tax cut cost to the debt.
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Old 11-06-10, 08:35 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

I think it's humorous that anyone believes government will "voluntarily" scale itself back enough to cover tax credits. It's like the tail wagging the dog!

Take a look at California. There aren't many options left for them (other than cuts) unless the federal government bails them out. Of course, the feds won't let them go bankrupt, so I expect that to happen. But watch out for the backlash when the rest of the country has to bail out their liberal "money grows on trees" asses!
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Old 11-06-10, 08:40 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
It's absolutely hypercritical to scream about "fiscal responsibility" while demanding tax cuts with no equivalent spending cuts.
that's assuming that tax cuts = tax revenue
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Old 11-06-10, 08:44 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

States cannot print their own money so the comparison to the federal government is not equivalent.
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Old 11-06-10, 08:47 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

The topic is about government spending. I don't see the OP making the distinction between federal and state governments.

Thank GOD California can't print their own money. Amen.
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Old 11-06-10, 08:56 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Well the reason why people talk about the two being different is that it's at the federal level where the distinction of tax cuts vs unfunded cuts occurs because you can added the cost of a tax cut to the debt.

You can't do that at the state level so there have to be equivalent cuts or funds raised via fees or other taxes to make the budget.
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Old 11-06-10, 08:58 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Some say cutting the tax rate will increase revenue in the future.
Note that only rich people say this.
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Old 11-07-10, 10:27 AM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
I think it's humorous that anyone believes government will "voluntarily" scale itself back enough to cover tax credits. It's like the tail wagging the dog!

Take a look at California. There aren't many options left for them (other than cuts) unless the federal government bails them out. Of course, the feds won't let them go bankrupt, so I expect that to happen. But watch out for the backlash when the rest of the country has to bail out their liberal "money grows on trees" asses!
Californians receive less than 80 cents in federal spending for every dollar they pay in federal taxes. I'm sure the people of California would do quite well if they could simply stop bailing out the fiscal conservatives in the South every year.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
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Old 11-07-10, 01:31 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
hypocritical?

Starve the beast.

The only way the sheeple will allow most "cuts" is if the money simply isn't there. We all see in hindsight how idiotic governments acted while the money was pouring in. This economy has opened up the books for a good hard look.

"But but but think of the chiiiiildren" isn't going to work right now. (thank goodness)
I know other doctors who are conservative. They make over $250,000. On the one hand, they bitch about the possibility of elimination of Bush's tax cuts. OTOH, they bitch about the cutting of Medicare payments to docs coming up in Jan.

Please explain to me how this fits into the conservative sense of "fiscal responsibility". I think "fiscal responsibility" is just a phrase they like to throw around to mask the fact that many are just self-serving people who believe that have zero responsibility to the society from whom they receive their material wealth.

BTW, I have asked one of these docs how much more in dollar amount he would pay with the elimination of the tax cuts. He makes close to $400,000. He had no idea but estimated in the 10's of thousands. I worked out the calculation and it turns out that it would be $6900. And most people making that income level have all kinds of tricks performed by their well-paid CPA's to hide the money or deduct massive amounts. I'd be willing to bet in the end, the increase would be a LOT less than $6900.

Last edited by hahn; 11-07-10 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 11-07-10, 02:08 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
I think it's humorous that anyone believes government will "voluntarily" scale itself back enough to cover tax credits. It's like the tail wagging the dog!

Take a look at California. There aren't many options left for them (other than cuts) unless the federal government bails them out. Of course, the feds won't let them go bankrupt, so I expect that to happen. But watch out for the backlash when the rest of the country has to bail out their liberal "money grows on trees" asses!
In addition to what slappypete said, I would suggest you are looking at a misleading indicator to judge a state's success. Specifically, you are looking at how well the government is doing financially. A more important indicator to me is to look at how the actual people living in the state are doing. IOW, what percent of the population is living below the poverty level.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...-poverty-level

Note the top 10 states in highest percent of people living in poverty:
Rank States Amount
# 1 Mississippi: 21.6%
# 2 Louisiana: 19.4%
# 3 New Mexico: 19.3%
# 4 District of Columbia: 18.9%
= 5 Arkansas: 17.9%
= 5 West Virginia: 17.9%
# 7 Kentucky: 17.4%
# 8 Texas: 16.6%
# 9 Alabama: 16.1%
# 10 South Carolina: 15.7%

Texas' government may be doing better budget-wise than California, but if more of their people are living below the poverty level, then what does that say about what they do with their money? What good does it do to have a government that isn't in financial trouble but lets the people remain in financial trouble?
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Old 11-07-10, 02:13 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

who has a higher standard of living? Someone 10% below the poverty level in Mississippi, or someone 10% above the poverty level in California?
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Old 11-07-10, 03:15 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by slappypete View Post
Californians receive less than 80 cents in federal spending for every dollar they pay in federal taxes. I'm sure the people of California would do quite well if they could simply stop bailing out the fiscal conservatives in the South every year.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
And isn't it funny to note how closely that list correlates with the % poverty level list? The states that have the highest poverty levels also receive the most federal money for the amount of tax they pay out. The question is, what are these states doing with the money?
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Old 11-07-10, 03:16 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
who has a higher standard of living? Someone 10% below the poverty level in Mississippi, or someone 10% above the poverty level in California?
Huh? I have no idea. Who has a higher standard of living? Someone 50% below the poverty level in MS, or someone 50% above the poverty level in CA?

What's the point of your question?
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Old 11-07-10, 03:27 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
Huh? I have no idea. Who has a higher standard of living? Someone 50% below the poverty level in MS, or someone 50% above the poverty level in CA?

What's the point of your question?
Poverty level isn't measured locally. It's measured nationally (alaska and hawaii are exceptions).

Someone making $15000 in San Francisco is considered just as "poor" as someone making $15000 in Mississippi.
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Old 11-07-10, 03:36 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Poverty level isn't measured locally. It's measured nationally (alaska and hawaii are exceptions).

Someone making $15000 in San Francisco is considered just as "poor" as someone making $15000 in Mississippi.
I understand what you meant by that. But why 10%? I could just as easily say 50%, but then that wouldn't prove the point you were trying to make. So if you're trying to prove a point, why don't you just come out and point to what you consider a better metric, instead of hiding behind a question that you yourself don't have an answer for.

There certainly are various ways to look at poverty level. But my original point was to counter mosquitobite's suggestion that California's financial woes is some sort of proof that liberals are fiscally irresponsible. BTW, refresh my memory - was the governor of California liberal or conservative?

Wrong conclusions come from simple-minded analysis that use generalizations without merit. In this case, the generalization that California is liberal resulted in their financial troubles.
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Old 11-07-10, 03:49 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
Wrong conclusions come from simple-minded analysis that use generalizations without merit. In this case, the generalization that California is liberal resulted in their financial troubles.
Teach us wise one...WHY then is CA in financial trouble?
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Old 11-07-10, 03:57 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
I understand what you meant by that. But why 10%? I could just as easily say 50%, but then that wouldn't prove the point you were trying to make. So if you're trying to prove a point, why don't you just come out and point to what you consider a better metric, instead of hiding behind a question that you yourself don't have an answer for.

There certainly are various ways to look at poverty level. But my original point was to counter mosquitobite's suggestion that California's financial woes is some sort of proof that liberals are fiscally irresponsible. BTW, refresh my memory - was the governor of California liberal or conservative?

Wrong conclusions come from simple-minded analysis that use generalizations without merit. In this case, the generalization that California is liberal resulted in their financial troubles.
I'm not criticizing the metric, I just think it doesn't make sense that the poverty level in California is the exact same as the poverty level of Mississippi.

The poverty level (for a household of 1 person) is $10,830 (in 2009.

My question of 10% would be:

would you rather live in California and make $11,913 or live in Mississippi and make $9,747?

your question of 50% would be:
would you rather live in California and make $16,245, or live in Mississippi and make $5,415?

would it please you if I chose 90%?
would you rather live in California and make $20,577, or live in Mississippi and make $1,083?

would it please you if I chose 1000%?
would you rather live in California and make $119,130, or live in Mississippi and make negative $97,470?


and when did I conclude that California's budget woes are because of liberalism?
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Old 11-07-10, 04:01 PM
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Re: Are Tax Cuts Government Spending?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
and when did I conclude that California's budget woes are because of liberalism?
That was me who made that generalization.
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