Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events
Reload this Page >

Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared...

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared...

Old 10-14-10, 12:12 AM
  #1  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
grundle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,322
Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared...

Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared to January 2011?

That's when the inheritance tax goes from zero to a top rate of 55%.

There's no poll here. I just thought it would be a good idea to raise this issue before the time period in question begins. As time goes on, if anyone has any thoughts, opinions, information, or articles about this, please post it in this thread.

On the one hand, the laws of economics would suggest that the answer to the question is "yes."

On the other hand, one would hope that humans place enough value on life that changes in the tax code would not encourage people to die sooner than they otherwise would.
grundle is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 12:18 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: La Crosse, WI
Posts: 15,556
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

I wish I was sick & rich, you can keep old, and rich will fix sick. I do not plan on dying in December, but then again, what % of deaths are planned? 2% maybe?
NORML54601 is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 12:28 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Decadance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 1,781
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

I only hope Grundle is all three.
Decadance is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 01:39 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...tax21_CV_N.htm

Excellent article on the subject.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 09:15 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 122,918
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Big Stein sure chose the right year to die.
Red Dog is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 09:32 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,523
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

This is why I support bringing back the estate tax: to provide a disincentive to dying. Personally, I think we should raise it to 100%. Then nobody would have any incentive to die and we'd all live forever.
JasonF is offline  
Old 10-14-10, 09:42 AM
  #7  
Admin-Thanos
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Posts: 31,590
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
This is why I support bringing back the estate tax: to provide a disincentive to dying. Personally, I think we should raise it to 100%. Then nobody would have any incentive to die and we'd all live forever.
Taking a grundlism to the opposite extreme. I love it!

And grundle, I'm a little disappointed in you, it's called the "death tax." Didn't you know.
VinVega is offline  
Old 10-31-10, 10:49 PM
  #8  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
grundle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,322
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
This is why I support bringing back the estate tax: to provide a disincentive to dying. Personally, I think we should raise it to 100%. Then nobody would have any incentive to die and we'd all live forever.
I can't argue against that!
grundle is offline  
Old 10-31-10, 10:51 PM
  #9  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
grundle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,322
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

This article doesn't mention anyone have died so far because of this, and it doesn't mention any specific names about people who are allegedly planning to die because of this, but I'm posting it because it's all we've got so far:


http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...b9c16dcdc.html

Wyoming Rep. Lummis: Estate tax rise has some planning death

October 30, 2010

CHEYENNE -- U.S. Rep. Cynthia Lummis says some of her Wyoming constituents are so worried about the reinstatement of federal estate taxes that they plan to discontinue dialysis and other life-extending medical treatments so they can die before Dec. 31.

Lummis, a Republican who holds her state's lone seat in the House, declined to name any of the people who have made the comments.

But she said many ranchers and farmers in the state would rather pass along their businesses -- "their life's work" -- to their children and grandchildren than see the federal government take a large chunk.

"If you have spent your whole life building a ranch, and you wanted to pass your estate on to your children, and you were 88 years old and on dialysis, and the only thing that was keeping you alive was that dialysis, you might make that same decision," Lummis told reporters.

Lummis and other Republicans are fighting to renew the Bush-era tax cuts, which expire at the end of the year. The cuts exempt large inheritances as well as certain wage income, interest, dividends and capital gains. She said the estate tax would go from zero this year to a maximum of 55 percent next year.

Lummis said the children of some people choosing death over taxes told her of their parents' decision. She wouldn't identify them and said it would be their decision to come forward.
grundle is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 12:34 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

It's a tough thing on farms. A family farm can easily be worth several million dollars with land value and you can get to a million just on equipment without too much work. But even so, you may not have much income. It's a lifestyle I don't get. You can have something worth $5 million that brings in actual income of $100,000 per year. That doesn't make economic sense to me, but it is value in land passed down through many generations. So you die and get a bill for $2 million or so. There is simply no way to pay it. You can mortgage the land to pay it, but the income will never pay the interest on the loan. You can sell off part of the farm, but now it won't produce the income to keep it viable for a family to make a living on.

Many farms have gone to incorporating with the corporation retaining most of the stock. Makes a lot of sense, but it is shitty that it has to come to things like that because the government if waiting to pick the bones of the dead.

Living trusts use to be the big thing for people when the exemption was $1 million. Unless you and your spouse died at exactly the same time (airplane crash) you end up with $1 million exempted. But put it all into a trust and you get the combined $2 million. Another perfectly legal thing that came about because the bones of the dead were ready to be picked off. Doesn't apply to everyone, though, because some don't get around to doing it. So their bones are picked a little more cleanly than others. Equity in America.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 01:58 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 29,921
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Shoudn't the question be: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people get murdered by their would-be heirs in December 2010?
eXcentris is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 04:04 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Troy Stiffler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Under an I-10 Overpass
Posts: 21,405
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Shoudn't the question be: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people get murdered by their would-be heirs in December 2010?
Haha. Yea. Rich people cling to life. They're not going to die in an honorable manner, to help continue their wealth. It's more likely that they'll become a bunch of suspicious spooks.
Troy Stiffler is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 06:54 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,523
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

Back when they were debating changes to the estate tax in the early part of the decade, I remember reading that they couldn't find anyone who had actually lost a family farm or family business to the estate tax.

I support raising the exemption to somewhere around $10 million, but then having a very high tax rate above that exemption.
JasonF is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 10:01 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Formerly known as "orangecrush18" - still legal though
Posts: 13,846
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

To answer the original question, probably not. Though it would certainly make sense in a few cases to try to die before Jan 1st. I would liken it to trying to have a baby before Jan 1st. You may try to induce labor if your due date is very close, but not likely in any other case.

As for inheritance tax, I am not a fan in general as I think most of the money being taxed has already been taxed before. If you don't like concentration of wealth, why not just have a federal wealth tax?
orangecrush is offline  
Old 11-01-10, 10:19 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
Re: Will statistically more old, sick, very rich people die in December 2010 compared

If you've ever watched people go through hospice, at that point in their lives it's really not at all far fetched to me that they would escalate their move for the sake of their family's inheritance.

I doubt the number of cases would be significant, and I think the end result may be a positive rather than a negative in many cases. People cling to life much longer than is reasonable in many circumstances.

I will say that it would indeed be unfortunate if someone passing 12 hours later costs the family thousands, tens of thousands, or more in taxes. Such things need not be the worry of these families.

Taxing the dead or their heirs is unethical to me. They owned the items, they should be able to pass them along however they please without a government finger getting involved. If they didn't pay their taxes in life, that's another issue.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.