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How do politicians intend to create job?

Old 10-03-10, 09:45 PM
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How do politicians intend to create job?

I responded to another job related thread and got to thinking.

Every politician in the country (Democrat, Republican, Independant, what have you) always goes on and on about creating jobs. "Unemployment is too high. We need to create more jobs." "Vote for me and I'll create more jobs." How exactly do they plan on doing that? I don't think I've ever heard an actual plan.

Jobs are created by employers. Basically you either work for yourself, a small business, a large business or you work for the government. The government can't exactly make businesses hire people. For the most part, the market dictates that. When things are going well, businesses hire people and when things aren't going well, businesses let people go. I'm a small business owner but for the last year or so I've been cutting back on payroll as business as been slow. If and when things get busy again I'll hire more people to keep up with demand but until then there's no way I can hire more people.

There's simply no way a politician is going to create jobs unless he/she can magically end this downturn in economy and get businesses busy again.

I mean really the only way that jobs can be created out of thin air is to just create more government jobs. That's easily doable. The government can create as many jobs as they want. Just hire 4 people to do the work of 2 or create new positions. Other than doing that, what can the government really do to create jobs?

I wish politicians would actually give a detailed explanation of their plan to create jobs rather than just talking about creating jobs. Maybe I've just missed it but I've never heard an actual plan and honestly I'd love to hear what they come up with.
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Old 10-03-10, 09:53 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

I take $100 from you and I spend $70 to hire a guy who does something we don't really need done. It's brilliant.
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Old 10-03-10, 10:16 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I take $100 from you and I spend $70 to hire a guy who does something we don't really need done. It's brilliant.
Exactly. That's creating government jobs. If that's the politician's plan then he/she should say "Vote for me and I'll make the unemployment rate go down by creating more government jobs." If he/she doesn't mean government jobs then I'd like to hear the plan for creating more jobs in the private sector.
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Old 10-03-10, 10:20 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

That is pretty much what the Dem nominee for Gov. in Oregon has said. The budget has been cut too much, there will be no more cuts, and we need to find new tax alternatives. Oregon loves to drive away business. I like to sit on my side of the Columbia River and laugh.
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Old 10-03-10, 10:28 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

The best thing politicians can do to create jobs is to do absolutely nothing.
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Old 10-03-10, 10:42 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
The best thing politicians can do to create jobs is to do absolutely nothing.
The one thing they could do is offer tax incentives for new hires or expand payroll credits.

But generally speaking, you are right.
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Old 10-03-10, 10:45 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
I wish politicians would actually give a detailed explanation of their plan to create jobs rather than just talking about creating jobs. Maybe I've just missed it
Maybe ...
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Old 10-03-10, 10:48 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by DVD Josh View Post
The one thing they could do is offer tax incentives for new hires or expand payroll credits.
Only if they're permanent, because the employees will be gone after the incentives and credits expire. So the solution essentially distills down to cutting taxes and mandated benefits.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:06 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Maybe ...
So...does that mean that I did miss it? If so, could you give me the quick and dirty explanation?
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Old 10-04-10, 12:15 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Simply put: people want simple answers to complex problems (look no further than the overtime thread for evidence of that). Politicians that offer these simple answers get elected, politicians who are more realistic do not.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:16 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
So...does that mean that I did miss it? If so, could you give me the quick and dirty explanation?
Direct hiring by the federal government; subsidies to states for hiring (first responders, teachers, infrastructure improvements); subsidies (grants and tax breaks) to private businesses.
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Old 10-04-10, 05:47 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I take $100 from you and I spend $70 to hire a guy who does something we don't really need done. It's brilliant.


Paricularly because the Federal subsidies will always be there for the states to continue those jobs.

ALWAYS!
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Old 10-04-10, 07:12 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Direct hiring by the federal government; subsidies to states for hiring (first responders, teachers, infrastructure improvements); subsidies (grants and tax breaks) to private businesses.
Specifically investing in "green" industries.
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Old 10-04-10, 10:54 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Direct hiring by the federal government; subsidies to states for hiring (first responders, teachers, infrastructure improvements); subsidies (grants and tax breaks) to private businesses.
Ok, so you're saying to create more government jobs. That's fine.

I really don't understand how the supposed grants and tax breaks to private businesses would work though.

I've never received any notice or documentation from the government outlining how I might "benefit" from hiring new workers. I remember some really vague information a while back about some kind of tax break, but the catch is that it would only apply if the business hired somebody that had been out of work for at least 6 months. I don't like that as more qualified applicants could potentially get passed over so the business can hire an unemployed person to get the tax benefits.

And again, I don't know what those tax benefits would be. A discount on sales tax that the consumer pays anyway? A discount on payroll taxes that the employee pays anyway? A discount on income taxes for the business owner? But what if the business owner makes over $250,000/year and the plan is to increase taxes for those people anyway?
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Old 10-04-10, 11:01 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

You also have stuff like research grants, building and maintaining bridges, roads and such. A lot of defense spending goes to private firms to build stuff. Evan wasteful spending does create some jobs. A lot of non-government workers made a lot of money on the Big Dig.
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Old 10-04-10, 11:28 AM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

My economics professor in college described how there is no such thing as the government "creating" jobs. The government alone doesn't exist except through tax dollars. So in order to fund these government jobs, the money has to come from us and businesses. That money would be spent or saved in the private sector. Instead it's transferred to the government sector who wastes a certain percentage on inefficiency, fraud, and waste. So a $1 in the private sector is not equal to a $1 in the government sector. The private sector probably wastes a certain % in greed as well, but a business that wastes too much will not be in business for long. Contrast that with the government...

Long story short, it IS a shell game as someone else has mentioned. You have to take money from X to use it on Y, and there's a smaller return on Y than if X had been able to use it for Z.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:32 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
My economics professor in college described how there is no such thing as the government "creating" jobs. The government alone doesn't exist except through tax dollars. So in order to fund these government jobs, the money has to come from us and businesses. That money would be spent or saved in the private sector. Instead it's transferred to the government sector who wastes a certain percentage on inefficiency, fraud, and waste. So a $1 in the private sector is not equal to a $1 in the government sector. The private sector probably wastes a certain % in greed as well, but a business that wastes too much will not be in business for long. Contrast that with the government...

Long story short, it IS a shell game as someone else has mentioned. You have to take money from X to use it on Y, and there's a smaller return on Y than if X had been able to use it for Z.

Then your professor was either a simpleton, an idiot, or both.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:39 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Perhaps it's just been 15yrs since I had the class and there's more to it than what I type in one post on DVDTalk as well.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:46 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Governments create jobs in the same way that theives create inventory.
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Old 10-04-10, 12:59 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
My economics professor in college described how there is no such thing as the government "creating" jobs. The government alone doesn't exist except through tax dollars. So in order to fund these government jobs, the money has to come from us and businesses. That money would be spent or saved in the private sector. Instead it's transferred to the government sector who wastes a certain percentage on inefficiency, fraud, and waste. So a $1 in the private sector is not equal to a $1 in the government sector. The private sector probably wastes a certain % in greed as well, but a business that wastes too much will not be in business for long. Contrast that with the government...

Long story short, it IS a shell game as someone else has mentioned. You have to take money from X to use it on Y, and there's a smaller return on Y than if X had been able to use it for Z.
If I were you, I'd call my alma mater and demand a refund because that Econ professor is a crackpot. Saying "the government alone doesn't exist except through tax dollars" makes as much sense as saying "Microsoft alone doesn't exist except through consumer dollars." There are important differences between tax dollars and consumer dollars -- most importantly, taxation is (for the most part) compulsory and consumer spending is not -- but that has nothing to do with whether government is adding value to the economy. And the government most definitely adding value to the economy. Your tax dollars pay for all sorts of valuable things -- national defense, infrastructure, public safety (police and fire), power generation in some jurisdictions, and so on. There's a reason that the formula for GDP includes Government Expenditures.

Edit: Pharoh said it sooner than I did, and much more succinctly.
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Old 10-04-10, 01:37 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Microsoft would exist without consumer dollars?
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Old 10-04-10, 01:53 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Microsoft would exist without consumer dollars?
Of course it wouldn't; that's the point.
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Old 10-04-10, 02:22 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If I were you, I'd call my alma mater and demand a refund because that Econ professor is a crackpot. Saying "the government alone doesn't exist except through tax dollars" makes as much sense as saying "Microsoft alone doesn't exist except through consumer dollars." There are important differences between tax dollars and consumer dollars -- most importantly, taxation is (for the most part) compulsory and consumer spending is not -- but that has nothing to do with whether government is adding value to the economy. And the government most definitely adding value to the economy. Your tax dollars pay for all sorts of valuable things -- national defense, infrastructure, public safety (police and fire), power generation in some jurisdictions, and so on. There's a reason that the formula for GDP includes Government Expenditures.

Edit: Pharoh said it sooner than I did, and much more succinctly.
How does what mosquitobite said contradict this? She said that government can only spend what it taxes - transferring money from private parties to the public. This isn't equivalent to saying that government does nothing useful.

Certainly we use some of this money for spending on "all sorts of valuable things" - but those things were purchased with money we taxed, they didn't just spring forth from the sky. I interpreted the statement not as saying it was impossible for government to provide useful services, only that it couldn't do so for free. In some cases it's probable that they are less effective than private alternatives, in other cases perhaps not.

Now she (and her professor) seem to ignore the government's ability to create debt (which obviously does not exist to the same extent in the private sector). In certain cases this would seem to allow us to 'create' jobs, at least temporarily, while minimizing the effect on current tax burdens.
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Old 10-04-10, 02:26 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Of course it wouldn't; that's the point.
Oh, I misread. I thought you were saying the opposite.
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Old 10-04-10, 02:32 PM
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Re: How do politicians intend to create job?

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Then your professor was either a simpleton, an idiot, or both.
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
that Econ professor is a crackpot.
Since I'm pretty sure he posts here, you can both expect administrative action.
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